1. 16
  1.  

  2. 5

    I think we’re measuring time to first paint internally for our performance comparison. I.e., I don’t think Mozilla optimizes for the time until the first HTTP request goes through.

    Now I wonder whether most starts of Firefox are supplying a command line parameter or not… Can’t say, really.

    1. 4

      I guess the question is, how much of a big deal is the performance delta in practise? Do you just close the browser after you’re done?

      1. 3

        I shut down my desktop overnight, and generally shut down my laptop when I’m done using it (starting from a blank slate when I’m going to do something completely different, such as transitioning from play to work, is nice imo). That means that I’ll generally start Firefox from a fresh boot at least once a day, usually multiple times per day. I’m probably not the only one.

        Also, it has become common for DEs and WMs to lack minimize buttons; neither gnome nor pantheon have them by default anymore afaik, and the concept of minimizing doesn’t even make sense in a tiling WM. That means that closing applications when you’re not doing it is probably becoming more common over time.

        1. 5

          Removal of minimize buttons from non-tiling desktop environments is just a misplaced unification with mobile devices (where those environments like GNOME don’t work in the first place and have no reason to unify anything with them) and should not be tolerated.

          1. 2

            I wasn’t saying it’s good, I was bringing it up as a really relevant reason for why someone might close their applications when not using them.

          2. 2

            and the concept of minimizing doesn’t even make sense in a tiling WM.

            I use Awesome and it supports minimising. I use it semi regularly. Sometimes a desktop gets a bit busy so I minimise a window with Super-n. Later Super-Ctrl-n brings it back. Handy for terminals that are running dev servers and the like too.

            1. 2

              Sounds like the ‘scratchpad’ in i3wm.

              1. 1

                Handy for terminals that are running dev servers and the like too.

                I find tmux to be a much better solution for this; you get a bunch of other handy features for free too, like being able to resume from an SSH session.

                1. 1

                  We might be talking about different things. I was referring to a dev server in the sense of a Rails application server that is running for local development or a zola instance when writing a blog post. In both cases there is no ssh involved. Is that what you meant?

                  1. 2

                    I think he means that instead of minimising the X window he would detach from the tmux session or move to a different tmux “window”.

                    I think he was just mentioning the SSH thing as an extra benefit to using tmux in general.

                    1. 1

                      No, that’s what I mean. If I start a dev server on one computer and walk away, then decide later I want to keep working on it, I can continue my work from another computer without being physically present at the original machine.

                2. 2

                  In tiling WMs there’s no need to minimize since the windows will just be parked behind active ones. (I’m only speaking for i3, StumpWM and EXWM. I’m not sure what dynamic[1] tiling WMs like xmonad do.)

                  [1] This is just a classification I made up on the spot, but static tiling WMs like StumpWM and EXWM have fixed tiles arranged by the user wherein new windows are placed. Dynamic tiling WMs create a new tile to put a new window in. i3 is somewhere inbetween.

                  1. 1

                    You don’t have minimise buttons but you do have multiple desktops, the solution there is to park windows on an off-screen desktop and move them back when you want to interact with them. This is what I do with Xmonad where I use the last desktop (#9) as a ‘parking space’. I move windows there by pressing Shift-Alt-9 and retrieve them with Alt-9 (which moves to the ‘parking lot’) followed by Shift-Alt-1 (to move the window to desktop #1) or something similar.

                    1. 1

                      Sure, that works, but that workspace 9 becomes really messy if you do that with every application you ever open. It’s not like in, say, ubuntu (which enables minimize buttons in gnome) or Windows where you can have as many applications open and minimized as you want and the only effect is an extra icon in a panel.

                      Also, in i3 (or sway, which is what I use), multiple monitors share the same pool of workspaces; when I have two screens, I usually allocate workspaces from 1 and up on the left screen and from 10 and down on the right screen. I sometimes use workspace 5 as a “parking space”, but that also means you have to decide which screen you want your parking space to belong to - or you could use workspace 5 for the left screen’s parking space and workspace 6 for the right screens, but then you have to remember the screen you last used the application on.

                      Sometimes it’s just easier to close the application, you know?

                      1. 1

                        It doesn’t matter if #9 gets messy as it is only used as a ‘parking lot’. I don’t use it all that much so it is a rare event for there to be more than 2 windows on that desktop. Xmonad also uses a shared pool (or can use a shared pool, the thing is configurable to the hilt so it is really up to the user to decide how to handle this) but there is no fixed relation between monitor position and desktop number - I can pull up #9 on any monitor, move a window to whatever desktop I had open on that monitor and switch back. Normally desktop #9 is invisible.

                3. 3

                  This only tests how long it takes for the prices to start up, not how long it takes for a browser to be ready. A browser can easily fake this test and still be super slow. This is not a good test.

                  1. 1

                    I would love to see this expanded to some more browsers such as surf, quotebrowser, and icefox. Browsers are one of the most frequently used peices of software, it’s a shame we have so few options.

                    1. 2

                      We don’t even have a good selection of browser engines anymore. I’d love to see NetSurf be a bigger thing outside RISCOS, for example, but try getting your grandma to use a browser that can’t access Faceblech.