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    Suggest person tag.

    Also, can we get a black lobster or something for a little while? :(

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      Agree on both.

      An “L” with a black background would be nice.

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      Many programmers push Worse is Better saying it’s profitable and/or inevitable. Terry Davis worked on what he believed was The Right Thing no matter what it cost. He’s dead. The Temple[OS] he gave his life for will live on. Maybe his work or dedication will inspire other people. Hopefully. :)

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        From what I have read, he was impossible to work with because he would be absolutely set on things without giving any explanation other than “this is the right way”. A lot of the decisions for temple OS were not better but just random decisions “from god”.

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          I’m an opponent of him in many ways. I overall agree with your assessment using the word “arbitrary decisions from god.” In the past, I would’ve even called him out since I was blunt in a brutally-honest way.

          His death saddened many Lobsters seemingly more than “it’s sad someone else died.” Maybe there’s something about him that hits home for them. I decided I’d comment on just the good aspects of what he was doing from the perspective of an ex-devout-Christian and current agnostic that respects people at least acting on their principles even when it costs them. That’s all.

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            The thing that is inspiring about Terry for me is that he would uncompromisingly follow his muse. As crazy as he was, he was able to keep personal integrity and be unfaltered in the face of criticism. As a developer I like to create things. I miss the days where I had a computer and would just create things for the sake of it. Explore and put my own flavor onto things without worrying about anything else. I miss that and Terry would remind me of these days.

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              Hm, it’s probably not intended, but this comment rubs me the wrong way. I also must admit that I have written and deleted multiple attempts trying to get my point across. Please also note that I usually don’t handle those subjects in English.

              The amazing Stella Young has coined the term “inspiration porn”, where people without certain barriers or disabilities use people with those as inspiration, quoting how “despite their struggles” they achieved something. In reality, it’s much more that these people have no choice. Pretty often, the people doing so had much more ability and chances to actually get what they want, they just don’t do it.

              We know that Terrys “personal integrity” was highly influenced by his illness. Yes, he had a “don’t care” mentality, but we don’t know if he could have afforded caring, even if he wanted. Having dealt with people with schizophrenia and other disassociating issues during both my civil service and in private life, I can definitely say that there’s often another side: the time after an episode where people try to do damage control and piece the status quo back together. Even if Terry had a rather public life, we may not have seen all of it.

              I’m not a fan of remote diagnosis, but the fact that TempleOS and his live streams were some kind of refuge and not only a sign of dedication and devotion needs to be considered. Also, in some form, they might also have been an expression of his illness. Plus probably his new faith. Terry found his niche in which he could exist and - harshly put - survive. In that niche, he was still a person that was insufferable to many. Given his interviews, I think he was very aware of that. And we shouldn’t forget some of his popularity was for the wrong reasons, e.g. people have used him as a nice chance to put racists statements out as “see what the deranged TempleOS-guy said” (just search for “Terry Davis Quotes”). He’s rarely quoted for his tech stuff.

              Terry had a lot of time to invest in his personal projects - but it’s not like he chose it. He was unfit for work and on meds. He wasn’t the kind of person people would take out for a ride or to the pub. We don’t know if he had a wish to do all of that, but maybe? He had an untreatable illness that is often given up on once people are considered “stable”. I’m not sure he didn’t really bother, but he had probably found a way to cope. These conditions are all about finding ways to cope. Given the way he left, he may have lost that way.

              So, in the end, a lot of could-be’s, maybes and a lot of things intersecting. Lots of things that could be speculated, but probably shouldn’t.

              I appreciate Terry for speaking about his mental state openly and unapologetic and reminding people that it exists. But didn’t enjoy much of his personality. That’s okay. I’m sad about his passing.

              But seeing a lot of people explaining the one with the other, for example by giving him a pass on many of his behaviours because of his schizophrenia is also a tough thing to see. Not because I think he shouldn’t get a pass for them, but because they also subtly remove all agency out of the person.

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                I don’t know enough about mental illness so I am probably misguided. I can only relate to myself where doing anything without coffee is already really hard. It’s obvious that you know more on the subject than I do.

                Anyways, I like what he did with TempleOS and HolyC. Who would think of using a C-like language as a REPL, it’s way too dangerous! I liked that he made unconventional choices which then allows to explore design spaces that are not necessarily well traveled.

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                  Thank you for this comment, it hit a lot of the points I wanted to write but couldn’t get them out. Having gotten my first professional break from a friend, getting to work alongside him and watch schizophrenia slowly take away his – everything – was absolutely heartbreaking.

                  The amazing Stella Young has coined the term “inspiration porn”

                  I had never seen the phrase (or her), but it really encompasses perfectly what upsets me about it.

                  He’s rarely quoted for his tech stuff.

                  http://www.codersnotes.com/notes/a-constructive-look-at-templeos/ is a great attempt to look at the technical work.

                  He had an untreatable illness that is often given up on once people are considered “stable”.

                  Or long before that … the toll it takes to be around someone actively suffering prolonged severe mental illness is astonishing, exhausting, nearly impossible to imagine. Often direct relatives check out of the process.

                  giving him a pass on many of his behaviours because of his schizophrenia is also a tough thing to see. Not because I think he shouldn’t get a pass for them, but because they also subtly remove all agency out of the person.

                  I think the disease is what removes agency, not comments about behaviors. Fundamentally that is a part of what it does, it steals agency, which is horrifying and brutal. I simply to this day do not know the correct approach to deal with people suffering severe mental illness, the tool they use to decide if they should take medicine is damaged.

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                  It’s never too late. Pick you a tiny project, carve out small slice of time, work on it a bit, pause it, work again, and so on. You might slowly get back into the habit you enjoyed.

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                    <3 Thanks. I am working on it. Breaking out of bad habits it hard.

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              Taken from the perspective that perfect is unattainable, Worse is Better really is the only viable way. TempleOS lives on but in how many heads will it do so?

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                That’s not true. It’s the way that works the most in the most situations. The Right Thing does work in niche markets. Erlang and Ocaml are examples of the right thing that have a lot of use right now. There’s also many example in embedded sector where the Worse is Better stuff is usually an extra layer or module that’s optional. There’s even hardware products that weren’t in performance-sensitive markets that are selling. That’s not to mention appliance vendors like Oreck or catalogs focusing on “best of” like Hammacher Schlemmer (which is awesome, esp outdoor stuff!).

                So, The Right Thing can work if there’s a market or mind share for it. It usually won’t work. My proposal, which someone else wrote up as well, is to do a hybrid where you build something as close to The Right Thing as possible with the viral characteristics of Worse is Better. Alternatively, you can build your product in a modular way with careful API’s so you can incrementally improve its quality and/or security over time if it sells. Most of the money still goes on features and marketing but some goes into those attributes. Stuff that gets rewritten is the stabilized or otherwise slow-to-change stuff.

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                  Not that I put much stock in “The Right Thing” versus “Worse Is Better” anymore. See: http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf (written by same author under a pseudonym).

                  That said, I always considered Erlang clearly on the pragmatic, get it done, worse-is-better, New Jersey side of the coin, at least according to the tenants described https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better. You code for the “Happy Path” – you put off / ignore most error handling. You need a little bit of mutable goodness, don’t worry, just use ETS we won’t tell anyone. Need even more bit twiddling, here is a friendly NIF.

                  • Simplicity: language simplicity at its core, complex stuff outsourced to OTP! Abstraction sounds complicated, lets just trust programmers to do the right thing and add another outside the language tool(dialyzer)!

                  Erlang is a “Mutually Consenting Adult Language” (read: dynamically typed with full term introspection - or more violently - unityped crap with everything in one big union type). – JLOIUS

                  • Correctness: time was known broken, but simple up until ERTS 7.0 when time warp was added. Single assignment is good, but don’t worry, ETS is there when you need it for some mutable goodness.
                  • Consistency: string module uses 1 based index, binary module uses 0 based index. Anything that takes needle, haystack – might take haystack, needle… check the docs.
                  • Completeness: sure, it would be nice to have decent string handling, but that would be a lot of work, how bout an list of bytes and you deal with it (complete it).
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                    Sounds like we both agree but we’re looking from different perspectives; in the end common sense needs to be used.

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                    TempleOS lives on but in how many heads will it do so?

                    The value of an idea is not at all related to how fashionable it is.

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                      To support that, just look for all the times people in literature or science did some work, people thought it had no value, and then it’s a big thing way later.

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                        Like boolean algebra?

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                          The funny thing about things like that is the collective memory of being wrong about a big thing gets wiped away immediately once something is recognized.

                          We’ve always been at war with Eurasia and all that.

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                            Nice way of putting it. I battle it all the time in discussions about the C language and UNIX OS.

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                              It’s incredibly aggravating. The collective memory is seen as immune to mistakes even as it makes them firsthand.

                              Dangerous territory for people who are interested more in good ideas than the constantly-changing ‘right’ ideas.

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                          I don’t agree because if an idea has no exposure it rarely makes its way to implementation, or me as well as the fact that stuff gets lost if it’s not fashionable enough.

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                      That’s quite saddening. Thank you for sharing it.

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                        First time I’ve actually felt a sinking feeling in my chest for an Internet person. Terry, you are with God now.

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                          Anyone have a source for the cause of death? Or any news article?

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                            I’m at work, so I was just able to glance quickly, but it doesn’t look like anything at the other end of this link confirms his death. Is this speculative at this point?

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                              Last I heard, someone on /g/ posted a screenshot of a Facebook page for Terry that had been set to memorial mode. The link to the page spread and people reported that Terry had died. Then, someone claiming to be OP replied to that thread and said that they had created the page themselves and were trying to fool their friends.

                              So yeah, sources are dubious

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                                Right at the end of the page: “Terry A. Davis (1969 - 2018). Rest in peace!”

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                                  Thanks for this! I may have missed this originally, but I’m 90% sure that was added in-between when I posted and your comment.

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                                His live streams will be missed.

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                                  RIP :(

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                                    Sad to hear it, he was one of a kind. Is there any effort to archive his work and preserve the site? His family might not want to keep paying the hosting bill forever.

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                                      archive.org has a large collection of his videos and a lot of TempleOS isos.

                                      I have some of his videos, curated, missing most livestreams. I prefer the more in-depth videos about TOS.