Can someone explain to me how solitary confinement, known to cause mental issues, makes sense as a punishment for the result of mental issues? I simply don’t understand it…
You can’t escape the punishment by killing yourself. Manning tried that. Manning’s severe and lasting punishment is a message they’re sending to potential whistleblowers. This method reinforces both of those traits. Makes perfect sense.
You are making an assumption that she has tried to kill herself to avoid punishment. Have you considered her mental illness, lack of treatment, and inhumane (and likely illegal under international law) treatment have caused her to become suicidal?
her mental illness, lack of treatment, and inhumane (and likely illegal under international law) treatment have caused her to become suicidal?
That’s exactly what I said. I used the word punishment but yes. They want to maximize the harm done as a deterrent to future whistleblowers. Escape is not allowed.
Is Manning’s treatment really atypical for suicide attempts?
Oh, I have no idea. It’s something I haven’t researched. I recall plenty anecdotal cases where there was temporary solitary or more monitoring. I also know the treatment that led to it is atypical.
Isn’t refusing somebody from dying for the purpose of inflicting more punishment, torture??
Not to mention the clearly unethical action of the military running war propaganda and then punishing severely those who wanna show the other side of the story.
I don’t think anybody was saying it isn’t torture. The question was why anyone would think it was a good idea, and unfortunately it does make logical sense. As you suggest, some would see this as a moral issue, but apparently not the US justice system.
It is important to point out that this is the military justice system, which is different. She’s more or less being held for confinement purposes, as opposed to rehabilitation.
this isn’t quite the US justice system, it was a military trial in the United States Army Military District of Washington
“Isn’t refusing somebody from dying for the purpose of inflicting more punishment, torture??”
Yep. As I clarified above, their goal is to torture Chelsea Manning as punishment for the leaks, deter the next leaker, and demoralize all supporters. They can’t have any interference with that such as suicide attempts. Indefinite solitary is a cruel, but effective, way to accomplish that.
It’s how the system works. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_DeFriest .
Damn, 4 years for a simple offence increased to 34. I know to a certain extent the escapes would have been premeditated so it is his own fault, but on the other hand if he was out in 4 years he wouldn’t have attempted most of the escapes. I know this is slightly different to the normal prison assaults leading to increased terms, but sometimes it really does feel like we are trying to keep people in prison indefinitely, or at least trying to punish rather than “deter” and rehabilitate.
There is another way, restorative justice, which makes sense to me in a lot of scenarios, including this one.
It’s not something that would ever be considered in a case like Chelsea Manning’s though. That said, I’m not sure how it could be applied there anyway…
Prison has very little measurable deterrent effect, and having been in prison removes most of the financial and social resources that released prisoners would need to be ordinary participants in capitalism. (I highly recommend that second article, which takes a very personal perspective on the issue, and offers some hope.) Pro-prison politics is fundamentally about vengeance, no matter what anyone claims.
Thanks for the links!
I read an article recently about a prison that is basically an island for rehabilitation and really like the idea, the wardens are optimistic about it working for all prisoners, I’m more pessimistic, but if it helps say 25% or more of the prisoners to return sucessfully to society, then I think it’s worth doing.
I read somewhere something along the lines of “when these people are released back into your society, do you want them to be mostly the same, more criminalised, or reformed citizens?”.
The prison in my city has a “ share house” where good prisoners can stay for the last few months of their sentence, they are treated like human beings in preparation for returning to society, they apply for jobs, learn cooking and trades, and even have access to knifes and tools. Unfortunately this is only available to a select few prisoners and for a short time. It would be great to offer this to most prisoners and for longer terms.
Likewise, thank you for that. I’ve heard about Norwegian prisons before, but not that one.
Proud of you rain! You’ve come a long way. Have an upvote. :)
Mass hypocrisy. What a sad, cowardly, hypocritical community. I’m not sure whether I’ll be contributing content to Lobsters again.