We plan to launch the first phase of built-in support for Exchange, as well as Mozilla Sync, in a future Nebula point release (e.g. Thunderbird 128.X).
wow!
A mail/calendar/contacts client that can sync Exchange[1] has been a huge blocker for using Linux for a lot of people[2]. This could be big news if the support is good.
[1] Yes I still use Exchange because the only options I’m aware of are Google, Exchange, or IMAP and I’m not interested in using Google or horrible protocols from 1986.
[2] Please don’t reply mentioning Evolution, Mailspring or any of the other apps that totally don’t work unless you’re actively and successfully using Exchange sync with them.
Contact & Calendar sync come to mind. Sure, you can do that via CalDAV and CardDAV - but not with IMAP alone and client-support is a bit hit and miss on different platforms.
[1] Yes I still use Exchange because the only options I’m aware of are Google, Exchange, or IMAP and I’m not interested in using Google or horrible protocols from 1986.
I think Exchange is godawful for mail. For mail alone, I’d rather have IMAP any day.
(I think but don’t know that exchange’s mail handling is still very much related to the microsoft mail stack, which is at least as old as the original IMAP. IMAP4 is very different from the original IMAP, and about the same age as Exchange.)
Since you don’t list it, you might be interested in JMAP. It’s not NEW but it’s newer than Exchange and sucks a lot less for mail.
IMO, the stickiness of Exchange comes from contacts and calendaring, not mail. And JMAP has some emerging standards for those, but they don’t look ready yet.
Exchange started off as an X.400 mail system: sometimes it leaks DNs as mail addresses; it has broken ideas about RFC 822 syntax (especially quoting) and MIME. Happily I have not had to worry about it for years now, and long may that continue.
I remember Exchange from the days when Bill Gates thought the Internet was a passing fad. It’s not bad as a mail system for a corporate LAN, but it’s absolutely awful at interoperating with Internet email.
I’m also excited Thunderbird will have built in support. Currently, I’ve had the best luck with davmail. It bridges Exchange to localhost IMAP, CalDAV, and LDAP services. That pairs well with mbsync, vdirsync, and other command line tools.
I do use Evolution on Linux with an Exchange server just fine and have been for years (well, until I switched to macOS). I think it uses EWS instead of EAS as the preferred transport.
I am glad the Exchange support is coming built-in though. The previous janky extension had the stench of euroware IIRC.
Software designed by/for the European market for some specific desire that in other countries, they would simply pick a solution that requires less resistance, but in the EU, they want to do it this way for some reason. Exchange support in Thunderbird is one (American companies would just use Outlook), another is this CalDAV synchronizer for Outlook I tried to use (spoilers: it is very janky). You just know it when you see it.
Agreed. Otoh, native outlook both on windows and especially MacOS feels abandoned in favour of the o365 web client - so in some sense outlook is equally awful across platforms now, Linux doesn’t stand out.
I am happy that thunderbird keeps developing and improves.
I feel like email is woefully underrated in its potential. It is a platform that has integration with Google, jira, miro, GitHub, git and many more. A good client could easily take advantage of that and extend the interface.
I could for example see thunderbird with a vcs plugin that allows you to preview and comment on email patches similar to GitHub etc.
I would love it if Thunderbird had deep enough understanding of GitHub to be able to do things like archive a thread of PR messages after the PR has merged. Or have some sort of “stale” metric for automated emails that automatically removes them from the inbox if I haven’t read them for two weeks.
A good client could easily take advantage of that and extend the interface.
100% this.
An underrated feature in T’bird $RECENT is the Matrix support. Matrix is a poor messaging system IMHO but it shows that part is getting some love. If T’bird could embrace libpurple and add a bunch of other modern messaging protocols, I would be delighted to dump a couple of messaging apps I have to keep around.
I use Ferdi for Slack/Whatsapp/Telegram/SMS/Skype/Discord/FB. I need to keep Signal around for one awkward person and one old channel.
In the past I had FB, Telegram, Skype, and Slack working well in Pidgin (alongside IRC and Rocket.chat, which I no longer really need).
Those are doable, realistic targets: there are working connectors for Pidgin. But I use macOS on the desktop and there’s no Pidgin for macOS. Adium hasn’t been updated in a decade and no longer works. Trillian, remarkably, does work but has almost no connectors in its Mac version.
I tried brew install pidgin a couple of months ago, the last time I was told about this. It does launch but it needed WINE. It’s a sort of port but it’s basically the Windows binary under translation, and I couldn’t work out where in the macOS filesystem I needed to place DLLs to get most protocols working.
I decided to give it a try right now, as something about this didn’t sound right after looking at the formula in Homebrew and not seeing anything WINE-ish. I’m on an M-series so it’s all Arm.
After installing Many dependencies, it all seemed to install OK. The default support included Gadu-Gadu, GTalk, GroupWise, IRC, SIMPLE, XMPP, Zephyr, so probably missing some important ones. I assume they go in /opt/homebrew/Cellar/pidgin/2.14.13/lib/purple-2/ since there’s a lot of things like libxmpp.os and related in there. Maybe it’d be OK now?
wow!
A mail/calendar/contacts client that can sync Exchange[1] has been a huge blocker for using Linux for a lot of people[2]. This could be big news if the support is good.
[1] Yes I still use Exchange because the only options I’m aware of are Google, Exchange, or IMAP and I’m not interested in using Google or horrible protocols from 1986.
[2] Please don’t reply mentioning Evolution, Mailspring or any of the other apps that totally don’t work unless you’re actively and successfully using Exchange sync with them.
Is there a specific problem with IMAP that Exchange solves, or is your objection actually just about its age?
It’s an odd argument, especially when Exchange is only 10 years younger.
Contact & Calendar sync come to mind. Sure, you can do that via CalDAV and CardDAV - but not with IMAP alone and client-support is a bit hit and miss on different platforms.
Not an exchange user myself.
I think Exchange is godawful for mail. For mail alone, I’d rather have IMAP any day.
(I think but don’t know that exchange’s mail handling is still very much related to the microsoft mail stack, which is at least as old as the original IMAP. IMAP4 is very different from the original IMAP, and about the same age as Exchange.)
Since you don’t list it, you might be interested in JMAP. It’s not NEW but it’s newer than Exchange and sucks a lot less for mail.
IMO, the stickiness of Exchange comes from contacts and calendaring, not mail. And JMAP has some emerging standards for those, but they don’t look ready yet.
Exchange started off as an X.400 mail system: sometimes it leaks DNs as mail addresses; it has broken ideas about RFC 822 syntax (especially quoting) and MIME. Happily I have not had to worry about it for years now, and long may that continue.
I remember Exchange from the days when Bill Gates thought the Internet was a passing fad. It’s not bad as a mail system for a corporate LAN, but it’s absolutely awful at interoperating with Internet email.
I’m also excited Thunderbird will have built in support. Currently, I’ve had the best luck with davmail. It bridges Exchange to localhost IMAP, CalDAV, and LDAP services. That pairs well with mbsync, vdirsync, and other command line tools.
It’s a bit hidden, but worth mentioning davmail can use outlook’s client id
I’ve no affiliation but do shill for it often. Davmail is such a useful too but is rarely mentioned.
I do use Evolution on Linux with an Exchange server just fine and have been for years (well, until I switched to macOS). I think it uses EWS instead of EAS as the preferred transport.
I am glad the Exchange support is coming built-in though. The previous janky extension had the stench of euroware IIRC.
What’s euroware? I was unable to find it in the dictionary.
Software designed by/for the European market for some specific desire that in other countries, they would simply pick a solution that requires less resistance, but in the EU, they want to do it this way for some reason. Exchange support in Thunderbird is one (American companies would just use Outlook), another is this CalDAV synchronizer for Outlook I tried to use (spoilers: it is very janky). You just know it when you see it.
BTW, does anyone know if Exchange Online has an open API for third-party clients?
Is exchange online something different from the o365 offering? That has the Ms graph API at least.
Ok, cool. I think those are the same thing.
Agreed. Otoh, native outlook both on windows and especially MacOS feels abandoned in favour of the o365 web client - so in some sense outlook is equally awful across platforms now, Linux doesn’t stand out.
I am happy that thunderbird keeps developing and improves.
I feel like email is woefully underrated in its potential. It is a platform that has integration with Google, jira, miro, GitHub, git and many more. A good client could easily take advantage of that and extend the interface.
I could for example see thunderbird with a vcs plugin that allows you to preview and comment on email patches similar to GitHub etc.
I would love it if Thunderbird had deep enough understanding of GitHub to be able to do things like archive a thread of PR messages after the PR has merged. Or have some sort of “stale” metric for automated emails that automatically removes them from the inbox if I haven’t read them for two weeks.
I believe Thunderdbird’s message filters (accessed through the “Tools” menu) is exactly what you want.
100% this.
An underrated feature in T’bird $RECENT is the Matrix support. Matrix is a poor messaging system IMHO but it shows that part is getting some love. If T’bird could embrace
libpurpleand add a bunch of other modern messaging protocols, I would be delighted to dump a couple of messaging apps I have to keep around.I use Ferdi for Slack/Whatsapp/Telegram/SMS/Skype/Discord/FB. I need to keep Signal around for one awkward person and one old channel.
In the past I had FB, Telegram, Skype, and Slack working well in Pidgin (alongside IRC and Rocket.chat, which I no longer really need).
Those are doable, realistic targets: there are working connectors for Pidgin. But I use macOS on the desktop and there’s no Pidgin for macOS. Adium hasn’t been updated in a decade and no longer works. Trillian, remarkably, does work but has almost no connectors in its Mac version.
For what it’s worth… Pidgin is in homebrew and works without an X server
I tried
brew install pidgina couple of months ago, the last time I was told about this. It does launch but it needed WINE. It’s a sort of port but it’s basically the Windows binary under translation, and I couldn’t work out where in the macOS filesystem I needed to place DLLs to get most protocols working.I decided to give it a try right now, as something about this didn’t sound right after looking at the formula in Homebrew and not seeing anything WINE-ish. I’m on an M-series so it’s all Arm.
After installing Many dependencies, it all seemed to install OK. The default support included Gadu-Gadu, GTalk, GroupWise, IRC, SIMPLE, XMPP, Zephyr, so probably missing some important ones. I assume they go in
/opt/homebrew/Cellar/pidgin/2.14.13/lib/purple-2/since there’s a lot of things likelibxmpp.osand related in there. Maybe it’d be OK now?Really? How very odd. I will try again. After the unsuccessful attempt, I removed it.