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    I’m pretty uncomfortable with calling software “sexy”.

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      Agreed. And going to a website promoting ostensibly professional software only to see “sexy” in large type multiple times just doesn’t feel work appropriate.

      “the little sweet and sexy” is just not a phrase you should be using to describe software. It’s off-putting to people, and it’s generally (at least in pop culture) used by leachers old men.This feels like yet another example of how tone deaf men in tech can be.

      1. -5

        Glad to you took the time to insult and signal how much better you are than those leacher, tone deaf old men who wrote some free software for you. It’s really a great way to earn friends and show them the errors of their ways by shaming people publicly. /s

        p.s. I agree with the sentiment, and hwayne’s comment is far more appropriate than some of the others I have seen. He expresses his own opinion, not theoretical opinions of others, and doesn’t shame anyone.

        p.p.s The funny thing Is rereading my own comment, I see I am not even following my own advice! A better comment would be something like:

        I do not agree with calling potentially well meaning people “tone deaf”.

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        Same for me, but that’s probably the sign of times. I have also the same feeling when people say that they love this company or that software.

        Of course when old established projects use such a lingo it may sound like when old people say something in teenage slang. It will feel off for teenagers and alien to other old people. Sort of uncanny valley?

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          At some point you are reading way too far into things… It just means ‘stronger than like’ in that context.

          I love my pet dogs. I love good food. I love good software.

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            It may be because I’m not a native English speaker. In my language love is mostly reserved to the top emotion. Then if you love something (your work or music genere) it means that it can literally compete with the feeling you have to e.g. your spouse. I guess it’s something that I can’t get over. Especially regarding purely profit motivated endeavours.

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              Almost certainly a native/non-native speaker thing. In American English at least, ‘love’ is a pretty tame word that gets thrown around for everything. There really isn’t a specific word distinct for, e.g., the feeling one feels about their spouse; about their kids; etc. Usually ‘love’ is used there too, and context determines the level of effect.

              Occasionally you might see modifiers like, “brotherly love”, “fatherly love”, “familial love”, etc. That’s not super common though, mostly just context to delineate the quality of the usage.

              What is your native language? I know Greek has a few different words for different classes of ‘love’, and I imagine it’s not super uncommon, but I’m always curious about language related topics and the different quirks various languages have.

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                I’m Polish. We say something like “brotherly love” or “fatherly love”. One can love their work, hobby and certainly their pet. But when someone says that he loves food or a thing it sound strange. “Like” is “lubić”. “Love” is “kochać”. “Love” in context of things would be more commonly translated to “uwielbiać”. It literally means “worship”, but in this context it is really more like “love” used as “stronger than like”. So maybe it is more crazy then in English.

                Love as a verb is “kochać”. But love as a noun is “miłość”. So “kochać” means that you feel “miłość” to somebody.

                I heard people from more pop part of younger generation saying such things, but it sounds for me like a literal translation from English. I heard it in movies and especially children movies. It almost always sounded off to me, but next generation is learning this foreign use. So I guess I’m doomed thanks to globalization ;).

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                  I’m also Polish and to be honest I find nothing strange in usage of “love” in context of “food or a thing” (both in Polish and in English). Considering that it seems from your linkedin profile that I’m older (32) than you I think your generalizations about younger generation is wrong :)

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          Yes. Also: laptops, companies, fields of study, consumer electronics, genres of literature, fonts, cooking techniques…

          Unless you are literally indicating sexual attractiveness, please use a word such as “exciting”, “sleek”, or “fashionable”.

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            I don’t think I have a problem with the sexy part, I have a problem with the screenshots make it not even look all that great. Those fonts are terrible. There’s nothing in the feature list that really even makes me want to try it out over the editors/IDEs I currently use.

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              I filed an issue. Please consider +1


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                Is not “sexy” a gender neutral word, that can be used about both genders?

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                  It’s not about whether it’s gender neutral. It’s just kinda weird.

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                    Agree, but linked issue mentions women as if word “sexy” offends women more than men.

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                      Yes, sexy is gender neutral. What makes it potentially offensive to women is the association with exploitation and objectification.

                      The word itself isn’t offensive. I can say that I find my wife to be drop dead sexy, but that’s because in that context it’s entirely appropriate.

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                        I completely agree that sexy in context of software sounds strange at best. I just don’t think that mentioning one particular gender in that issue was needed.

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                          Stop taking offense on behalf of others.

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                            Fascinating that you see it that way. When there is a gigantic groundswell of people saying “your behavior makes me uncomfortable” I try to change that behavior.

                            I for one value women in tech. I find their presence in my day to day working life improves my productivity and the productivity of the teams I work on, as does a diversity of backgrounds, opinions and characteristics.

                            So, for me this isn’t about offense, it’s about trying to make the industry I care deeply about a more welcoming place for a group of people I also care deeply about.

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                              Folks can play dumb about “sexy” alone, but when you address the complete phrase, “little, sweet, and sexy,” someone’s gotta be pretending to be reeeal oblivious to show up and say oh that’s neutral we’re not talking about software like we wanna talk about women.

                              Anyway keep speaking up, because yeah it’s not “taking offense on behalf of others” its paying attention to them and having consideration without them having to speak every time. And I sure as heck don’t like to wade directly into this kind of talk on lobsters very often, it’s rarely worth it.

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                                Thanks. I think that’s why it’s important for people in privileged situations like myself to at least try and raise awareness. I don’t let the negative comments get to me - I was donning my asbestos underwear and wading into email/USENET threads before most of these people were born :)

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                                  I can’t imagine people talking about women that way. Would be super creepy to use a phrase like “sweet and sexy” about a person instead of a thing…

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                                    Maybe you are (or someone reading this is) not aware of the counter argument so I thought I’d share: the implication in your comment is that sex necessarily exploits women, which is false. The idea that sex necessarily exploits women reinforces the belief that we must protect women from sex as we do children. This is a defining aspect of anti-sex, Third Wave feminism, which I believe runs counter to the feminist goals of dismantaling fascist and patriarchal structures in society.

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                                    I am very rarely seeing a groundswell of people saying “Your behavior makes me uncomfortable”.

                                    What I actually see is people saying “I assume your behavior is making somebody else uncomfortable, and I am taking the credit for ‘fixing’ you”. I far prefer the original comment from hwayne where he was talking about his own opinions, rather than imagining those of other people.

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                                      My upvotes usually mean “you speak for me also”. It’s quite a time saver. :) So, to clarify, I myself personally was made uncomfortable by someone describing software as “sweet and sexy”. So much so that I only skimmed the first page or so and closed the tab.

                                      I assume they had good intentions. If I were the author, I’d work a bit more to come up with some way to express my excitement at having written something cool, without sounding creepy.

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                                        And I’d like to be very clear, I don’t disagree with the argument, I disagree with some of the methods used to enforce them.

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                                        I for one value women in tech. I find their presence in my day to day working life improves my productivity and the productivity of the teams I work on, as does a diversity of backgrounds, opinions and characteristics.

                                        Non-native English speaker here. How does the term sexy offend only women and make them unwelcome to OSS? I mean, I understand the top comment (by hwayne) here saying how it would make someone uncomfortable, but why I don’t understand why it is only limited to women.

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                                          Quoting a woman who’s a friend of mine from another context, unattributed at her request:

                                          The word “sexy” when used to mean that something is sexually attractive, is what it is. You may or may not be expressing something offensive when you use it. The word “sexy” when used to describe something that is not sexual - a car, an algorithm, a user interface - still evokes the idea of sex. It implies that you should feel sexually “turned on” by it, even if it is not literally a thing with which you would have sex. Given the cultural and historical context of our times, a professional environment where people are expected to feel sexually “turned on” by things, or where the idea of sex is constantly referred to when it is not technically relevant, is not an environment where many women will assume they are respected or even safe. You personally might go ahead and assume you are safe and respected. Many women won’t. This reduces the pool of women who are interested in applying for jobs at your company, or interested in staying once they have experienced it for awhile. The people who create the culture of a company either care about that, or they don’t.

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                                      But you are the one drawing associating between “sex” and “exploitation” and “women”.

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                                For those who are about to read: note that geany.sexy is not managed by the maintainers of the Geany IDE, so the issue didn’t end up going anywhere.

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                                  This seems like a silly thing to even care about. It’s like the whole master/slave IDE cable debate. Seriously, it doesn’t need to be a big deal. It’s not even the editors official site. There are more important things to spend time on.

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                                  Are you uncomfortable with sexuality in general?

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                                  Their main website (at least as far as I know) is still at https://geany.org/.

                                  It does seem odd to me that the .sexy domain is being used for any text editors.

                                  See also:

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                                    Still cringey IMO

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                                      I always thought the vim.sexy was more of a parody/satire of that style of site from a fan of the editor more than anything else.

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                                      I’ve always liked Geany but I found the more I dug into a specific language in my career, it could’t keep up with what I expected an IDE to do. I also didn’t want to dive into writing plugins to make it feel more like an IDE that already exists.

                                      I’ll still prefer Geany over the Electron text editors out there like Atom and VS Code.

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                                        Yeah. I used Geany for a year or two back in school and found that it was a fantastic text editor, but really didn’t offer anything beyond that. Emacs, Vim or a real heavier weight IDE wound up being my go-to tools due to superior integrations with the various languages I was working.

                                        I’d still reach for Geany for some quick editing if I didn’t have my full emacs instance booted.

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                                          How do you feel about Sublime? It’s also part of the “hand-coded UI” camp of text editors.

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                                            I never took the time to use it. It is literally never an option in my head when I think about editors. I know people seem to really like it and that’s cool!

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                                          It’s interesting to see some of the reactions here. In American (and to some extent anglospheric, but especially American) culture, any connotations with sex are seen as taboo. Many Americans can handle violence, blood, guts and gore, but have an almost puritannical approach to nudity, sex or the attribution of sex or nudity to things that don’t normally have such connotations.

                                          In non-Anglospheric cultures (for example, Germany, Italy, France, Spain) sex and nudity are viewed completely differently. In Anglospheric cultures, pictures of scantily clad women with non-sexual devices (such as computers) are deemed exploitative sales tactics, while in other cultures, scantily clad women with computers are simply decoration.

                                          I suspect in many parts of Germany, a site like geany.sexy wouldn’t be considered problematic. If you look at the text, it doesn’t appear to be specifying a gender (which I guess makes the sexy point a little odd).

                                          I’m not saying one culture is better or worse than the other, but certainly that it would be quite something to assume that this is an official page designed specifically for the US market would be naiive, at least.

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                                            Has anyone informed them that using the term “sexy” in a technological context is, to use the proper term of art, “highly problematic”?

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                                              It certainly is “unprofessional”. Do I live under a rock or is this an american-centric view that it is a “highly problematic” term? It may be too playful in professional context, but it does not appear to me as sexist. Men are also described as sexy. What am I missing?

                                              It’s sad however that there is only two comments in this thread about Geany itself. That means that it is an issue enough.

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                                                You don’t live under a rock. Had I read this a few years back I’d have reacted much the same way.

                                                However, look at it from a different perspective. You’re a woman. You’re hoping to break into this industry and maybe make some contributions to an open source project.

                                                I am NOT saying that simply by using the word ‘sexy’ guarantees that you’ll also engage in other locker room talk that could make people uncomfortable, but it’s a big red flag that you might, and that’s often enough to keep people away.

                                                So, from my perspective as an ally, I did the right thing. I filed an issue, and the project can either ignore it or take action on it as they see fit. I’ve done my bit.

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                                                  The authors do seem to be mainly not native English speakers. Afaict they’re mostly(?) Germans, and I may be wrong (my German is poor), but I think “sexy” as a loanword in German is often used as a synonym for “chic” or “trendy” or “cool”, e.g. you can apply it to a product like a bicycle or coffee maker without implying anything sexual about them. Which used to also be true in English but is nowadays pretty old-fashioned/obsolete usage. Maybe they don’t notice the connotations in modern English make that usage not really work? Anyway, since @feoh filed an issue we can see what they think once someone’s pointed it out.

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                                                    I wouldn’t doubt it! I’m not trying to fling poo here. I’m trying to sensitize people who are probably NOT aware of the implications of the words they’ve chosen.

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                                                      All this implies women are so sensitive, and weak for their sensitivities, that they’d join “tech” but they saw the word sexy being used in admiration, got triggered and retreated to their safe space instead.

                                                      Good job on belittling women by trying to conjure a shitstorm over something this trivial.

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                                                      I think “sexy” as a loanword in German is often used as a synonym for “chic” or “trendy” or “cool”, e.g. you can apply it to a product like a bicycle or coffee maker without implying anything sexual about them.

                                                      Someone should let them know that if they write “sexy”—or any other word, for that matter—over and over again in big bold headline all over a webpage, people (read: Americans) will read into it, regardless of their intention.

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                                                        Sexy is not a bad word. Also I am from overthere and the world is not only about America and I in my opinion that Americans should respect our culture as much as they want theirs to be respected.

                                                        Honestly guys, you are overshooting. Not a single woman I know would be offended or kept from contributing to Geany just because the project refers to itself as being sexy. And this includes one woman from Poland. I haven’t seen a single woman of lobste.rs complaining here neither. So maybe being overprotective as a man about how women might feel could be recognized as being chauvinism.

                                                        My point being: there will always be somebody that is going to feel offended because of his gender, nationality, taste, race or for whatever reason. People need to relax.

                                                        Honestly, I feel more and more that lobste.rs is about patronizing people and the technical discussions are becoming background noise 🙁

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                                                        When did that usage become obsolete in English? AFAICT it’s still the primary use of the word…

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                                                          My impression was that it’s not common anymore in American English at least; something like “machine learning is becoming a sexy field” (vs. “trendy field”) feels like quite dated slang to me. But I could be overgeneralizing something that’s only true in certain regions or sociolects.

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                                                      I just did. Created an issue: https://github.com/geany/geany/issues/1672 Please consider +1 if you agree.