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    I’m not going to create a Disqus account; but for the record for your lobsters; Red Hat does use Ceylon internally.

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      Is Kotlin really that much more active than Ceylon? That’s not my impression, and I think Ceylon’s design would address all the frustrations here, without any problems.

      (I’d also be surprised if the build times for Scala written in the same style were that much slower, but presumably the author has measured it).

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        I’ve found that Kotlin feels more active with JetBrains backing it versus RedHat. Whether this is the case I have no idea.

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          Absolutely. I read that the creator of Ceylon is pretty unhappy that his team adopted the approach of announcing features when they are ready, while Kotlin devs fly from conference to conference but continually fail to ship features that were announced years ago. (His words, not mine.)

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            I can’t speak about the code itself, but from my experience Kotlin absolutely has much better marketing.

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            It will be interesting to see how they react to the Google announcement that Java 8 might be in the horizon.

            They pivoted from competing against Scala early on to competing against Java on the JVM, then with Java 8 they pivoted again to act as a better alternative to Java 6.5 on Android phones.

            With the general baseline of Java moving to Java 8 in the foreseeable future, and the JavaScript support not working, it’s hard to imagine which niche remains for Kotlin.

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            I’m surprised that the author did not touch on the fact that Kotlin has Javascript support. When I looked at the language, it was what I found to be the most interesting facet of it. While is currently not being done (as far as I am aware), you could easily use that feature of the compiler to go and do the same homogeneous application development promoted by the javascript community.

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              for me, the most interesting feature is android support with no overhead vs java. there are tons of languages with javascript support, but very few for android.

              ceylon has great javascript support too, incidentally, but android is still on their future roadmap list.

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                Android is the only place I’m ever needing to write Java bytecode so Kotlin’s Android support is really interesting.

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              Haxe seems just as compelling as Kotlin. It has

              • Algebraic Data Types
              • Pattern Matching
              • Array Comprehensions
              • Multiple Backends (Java, C++, JavaScript)
              • Intellij plugin support

              http://haxe.org/documentation/introduction/language-features.html