I really advice against the side by side monitors. There problem is, your going to have your main app open in one monitor at a time so your going to be turning your neck for hours at a time. Suggest either stacking it going with a single large monitor. I got a Dell 43” 4k monitor for $700 ish. I previously had a single 32” ultra wide, which as the author mentioned is too short. Then a friend sold me his and I stacked them. That was ok but made me standing desk hard to use in standing mode.
I like the single monitors with a window management app. I’d love this setup now if I could get it in a curved version and a higher resolution for sharper text, but otherwise it’s amazing.
I’m always amazed that people are so hesitant to spend money on their work tools. They are tax-deductible but more importantly, they are in investment in your long term health and happiness. It’s one of the biggest advantages of working from home. Your don’t have to use the cheap crap your employer provides.
It’s doubly amazing because many in this situation are making $100k (possibly multiples of that). Also do many people have some crazy expensive bike,car,boat,guitars, home theater, etc that’s only used a few hours a week.
I know it’s tempting to cheap out, but 30,40,50 year old you will thank you.
The distance between the center of two widescreen monitors is much smaller when stacked than when side-by-side. And of course that’s not true of landscape or square monitors. Not ALL stacked monitors are ergonomically arranged but you can reduce neck movement by stacking.
I don’t know if it’s just about distance. I find the vertical angle matters much more than the horizontal angle. For example, I find laptops difficult to use for long periods because my neck gets sore looking down all the time, instead of looking straight ahead. However, I don’t have any problems with horizontal monitors.
That’s a good point about the dual monitors. I’m considering having one facing flat forward, and another angled off to the side. I’d probably have to sit off to one side of my desk but that’s not too concerning.
I get your point about spending money on work tools, which might fall in the same category as what people say about beds & shoes. I do worry this attitude if adopted too enthusiastically can dull judgement about whether a given tool is really necessary - for example a gas-spring monitor stand instead of a basic one or an Ergodox instead of Goldtouch keyboard (although I admit being tempted by the Kinesis Advantage2 from seeing all the people who swear by it). With the way our society is set up it is often very difficult to determine (even within our own heads) whether something expensive is a reasonable purchase that supports good craftsmanship, or just a flex.
I do this too. The only problem is that 16:9 screens reeally don’t like being in portrait. I have a 24” 16:9 screen to the left of the primary screen used mostly for web browsing, and it’s really common for websites to grow a combination of horizontal scroll bars and buttons with text extending outside of their bounds.
Hah, yeah I got the last 16:10 that dell sold a few years ago and just picked up a partner for it, and having them side-by-side vertically is great, but I would be loathe to throw away 10% of that space.
The main point is this: every single person I’ve had a discussion on buying quality tools for work and had an objection to spending money also had some expensive hobby they were willing to splurge on. (I’m sure not everyone is like this, just seemed the people with the strongest objection had other money sinks). Is just a matter of logical consistently. They might have $25k of bike equipment in the garage but get upity about spending $500 on good equipment. That’s why this is one of my hot button issues. A course of physical therapy is going to cost more than decent equipment.
My old equipment always finds it way to friends and family and tends to get years of useful life beyond me.
There’s nothing logically inconsistent about spending money in some places and saving it in others. “I spent a bunch of money on thing X, so I should also spend a lot of money on thing Y” sounds more like sales tactic psychology than logical reasoning. You can easily get good enough ergonomic equipment to keep the PT away without spending much money. A $20 used Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard, a $25 Anker vertical mouse… even monitor stands can be replaced with a stack of old technical manuals. A good chair is really the only thing I’d say you need, and you can get a good-enough used Costco model for like $60.
It is if a) this is the way you make your living and b) you are oddly cheap in this area but spend big money on things you use way less. That’s the point in trying to make and I still find the behavior quite baffling.
That’s a good point about the dual monitors. I’m considering having one facing flat forward, and another angled off to the side. I’d probably have to sit off to one side of my desk but that’s not too concerning.
At work with a two monitors set-up, I tended to have my main one in front of me flat and the other angled on the left. Not being in the centre of the desk allowed me to have a notebook and pen on the left of the mouse that I can reach for quick notes and having a space not in front of the main screen for thinking with reasonable space to use the notebook.
Could not agree more with this! Many of my colleagues think I’m crazy for sticking to one monitor but I find it not only saves my kneck but also helps keep focus.
I felt a little bit buttered up by all the frugality talk when the first price mentioned was over eight hundred bucks for a desk. What I really liked about this article were the priorities right up at the top.
Mechanical keyswitches aren’t about ergonomics.. it’s all about the feel. They just feel really good to type on! And there’s the aesthetic of fancy keycap sets, yeah. But speaking of ergonomics, this summer I have switched from a basic non-split Leopold to a split keyboard from aliexpress. It’s not tented and the case is made of acrylic layers, so I’m thinking about designing and 3D printing a bottom layer that would make it tented.
I have a vertical mouse.. in a drawer somewhere, was planning to use it in the office :) I only use my G603 at home because I’m not going to play Counter-Strike with a vertical mouse and switching between different mice for work and games is just too much.
I was thinking the same thing—he doesn’t understand mechanical keyboards, or maybe just doesn’t like the way they feel. But you’re right, they are not primarily about ergonomics. Rather, ergonomics are a side benefit to mechanical keyboards. With Cherry MX Blue or Clear switches, I can easily approach 150 wpm (depending on how much sleep and coffee I’ve had) because I’ve become accustomed to feeling where the tactile “bump” is in the switch and that means I don’t bottom out the keys when typing which will prevent RSI and other injuries from long-term use.
If you’re still in an office or a shared space at home and concerned about noise, I recommend the Cherry MX Brown switches. Still great for typing and coding, but not as loud so you can reasonably do things like take notes during a Zoom conference.
I had a couple tent/wedge things 3D printed for my ergodox and have been very satisfied. I found something online and just fired it off to someone on thingiverse.
The desk seems a bit spendy to me. I noticed that once I became accustomed to standing, I rarely felt the need to sit down, so spending more on an motorized sit/stand solution seems … extravagant. I agree that wobbly desks suck, however even with the cheap desks that I’ve had (e.g., IKEA handcranked) I’ve not found this to be an issue.
The keyboard thing I take issue with though. Ergodox has basically ruined me for any other keyboard. I’d rather put more of my money there than in a high or even moderately priced desk.
I’d also recommend a single big monitor to a dual setup. I’m not a fan of the ultra wide monitors, but I also prefer them to duals. At the moment I’ve got an LG 43 and wouldn’t go back.
It’s pretty ironic that he goes straight from “don’t spend money on stuff you don’t need” to “I have a standing desk with motorized control to adjust the height” isn’t it…
I wanted a standing desk, as I’ve used them for years at Microsoft and enjoyed them greatly. You can get standing desks with cranks but I know myself well enough to know I would just be lazy and never adjust it up to standing height if I had one. You can, of course, purchase motorized adjustable standing desks for cheaper - but not by a ton.
I might have been lucky, but in my >>20 years of doing this my main way to deal with RSI and ergonomics is: walk away from crappy jobs. I only have physical problems when I’m stressed, and I’m only stressed when the company I work for is bad.
Looks great! I would do one thing differently: The sit/stand rising desk.
Instead of $835 from Uplift, get the adjustable leg frame from Monoprice for $350 (or Primecables for $379 CAD if you’re Canadian). There are even cheaper models if you don’t want memory buttons or prefer hand-cranked. Even if you go with the cheapest variant, the quality of life is definitely worth it–even for just being able to make fine adjustments while seated (though I do enjoy standing a few hours per day).
I have the Primecables one with a $69 IKEA top and it’s fantastic.
How stable are they near the top of their range? I’ll admit to not shopping around for a standing desk as much as I should have, just took a few peoples’ recommendations for Uplift (they all worked for big tech companies which should have been a warning sign lol)
As stable as I can imagine it being. My office has broadloom carpeting right now so it took a few days for it to “sink” in low enough for full stability, but I suspect on normal flooring it would be maximum stable.
The construction itself is very high quality and very sturdy. It’s decently heavy so it’s nice that each leg has its own motor. The footing design itself is very similar to what you’ll find from Uplift etc.
I’m certain you won’t regret Uplift, but it’s easier to recommend a cheaper option for other people who might be more on the fence. :)
For anyone is the US, I got an adjustable work table from Home Depot on sale for $150 (I think normally $250). It works great, you just have to crank it manually up and down. I usually just leave it up and go to the dinner table to sit. And it has wheels on it, so I can wheel it around if needed.
The keyboard is missing thumb clusters. Hitting the modifier keys with your pinkies is pretty bad, although I suppose if you’re using tools that don’t require you to hit those keys very often (stares angrily at vanilla emacs bindings) then you don’t feel it as much.
I have had a hell of a time finding a way to buy the LG 24” 4k monitor (LG 24UD58-B) in Canada. It’s something I have been looking into over the last year. Only option is directly buying from LG on Amazon/Ebay.
Something like 5 years ago I transitioned to standing desks, and I really haven’t used a work chair since. Other than the rare times when there’s something wrong with my legs, sitting is now for resting and eating. I’m not absolutely certain if standing so much is that good for the body either, but it’s probably quite a lot better than sitting down all the time.
That’s interesting, I can probably stand for at most an hour or two before it becomes uncomfortable in my lower back and sitting is preferable for a while. How long did it take you to adjust to full-time standing?
Perhaps half a year to a year. I was doing a martial art that had lots of leg techniques at the time, so that probably helped me there. Any other aerobic leg muscle workout would probably be as beneficial.
edit now that I think about it, I wasn’t actually trying to transition to full-time standing. Just over time I felt less and less comfortable with sitting and eventually when I switched offices, I just kinda forgot to pick a chair and that was it. Also, I do sit down for a few minutes every now and then.
Nice setup.
I like the single monitors with a window management app. I’d love this setup now if I could get it in a curved version and a higher resolution for sharper text, but otherwise it’s amazing.
It’s doubly amazing because many in this situation are making $100k (possibly multiples of that). Also do many people have some crazy expensive bike,car,boat,guitars, home theater, etc that’s only used a few hours a week.
I know it’s tempting to cheap out, but 30,40,50 year old you will thank you.
That’s my PSA if the day.
Shouldn’t have read this. The night just got expensive.
So you should be looking up for hours at a time?
The distance between the center of two widescreen monitors is much smaller when stacked than when side-by-side. And of course that’s not true of landscape or square monitors. Not ALL stacked monitors are ergonomically arranged but you can reduce neck movement by stacking.
I don’t know if it’s just about distance. I find the vertical angle matters much more than the horizontal angle. For example, I find laptops difficult to use for long periods because my neck gets sore looking down all the time, instead of looking straight ahead. However, I don’t have any problems with horizontal monitors.
That’s a good point about the dual monitors. I’m considering having one facing flat forward, and another angled off to the side. I’d probably have to sit off to one side of my desk but that’s not too concerning.
I get your point about spending money on work tools, which might fall in the same category as what people say about beds & shoes. I do worry this attitude if adopted too enthusiastically can dull judgement about whether a given tool is really necessary - for example a gas-spring monitor stand instead of a basic one or an Ergodox instead of Goldtouch keyboard (although I admit being tempted by the Kinesis Advantage2 from seeing all the people who swear by it). With the way our society is set up it is often very difficult to determine (even within our own heads) whether something expensive is a reasonable purchase that supports good craftsmanship, or just a flex.
Consider rotating one of the screens. I sit straight down the middle for the landscape screen, then have the portrait screen to my right.
I’m pretty sensitive to shitty ergonomic setups, and this causes me no problems at all.
This is my setup too. Looks dorky, works great.
I do this too. The only problem is that 16:9 screens reeally don’t like being in portrait. I have a 24” 16:9 screen to the left of the primary screen used mostly for web browsing, and it’s really common for websites to grow a combination of horizontal scroll bars and buttons with text extending outside of their bounds.
Hah, yeah I got the last 16:10 that dell sold a few years ago and just picked up a partner for it, and having them side-by-side vertically is great, but I would be loathe to throw away 10% of that space.
That’s a neat idea, I think I’ll try that!
All decisions come with error bars. Fall on one side, you have a flex; fall on the other, you are performing worse at work than you could be.
I know which side I’m happier to land on.
The main point is this: every single person I’ve had a discussion on buying quality tools for work and had an objection to spending money also had some expensive hobby they were willing to splurge on. (I’m sure not everyone is like this, just seemed the people with the strongest objection had other money sinks). Is just a matter of logical consistently. They might have $25k of bike equipment in the garage but get upity about spending $500 on good equipment. That’s why this is one of my hot button issues. A course of physical therapy is going to cost more than decent equipment.
My old equipment always finds it way to friends and family and tends to get years of useful life beyond me.
There’s nothing logically inconsistent about spending money in some places and saving it in others. “I spent a bunch of money on thing X, so I should also spend a lot of money on thing Y” sounds more like sales tactic psychology than logical reasoning. You can easily get good enough ergonomic equipment to keep the PT away without spending much money. A $20 used Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard, a $25 Anker vertical mouse… even monitor stands can be replaced with a stack of old technical manuals. A good chair is really the only thing I’d say you need, and you can get a good-enough used Costco model for like $60.
To be fair, these are harder and harder to find. Same goes for phone books…
It is if a) this is the way you make your living and b) you are oddly cheap in this area but spend big money on things you use way less. That’s the point in trying to make and I still find the behavior quite baffling.
Invest in yourself and your health.
I’m not trying to sell you a standing desk.
At work with a two monitors set-up, I tended to have my main one in front of me flat and the other angled on the left. Not being in the centre of the desk allowed me to have a notebook and pen on the left of the mouse that I can reach for quick notes and having a space not in front of the main screen for thinking with reasonable space to use the notebook.
Could not agree more with this! Many of my colleagues think I’m crazy for sticking to one monitor but I find it not only saves my kneck but also helps keep focus.
I felt a little bit buttered up by all the frugality talk when the first price mentioned was over eight hundred bucks for a desk. What I really liked about this article were the priorities right up at the top.
Mechanical keyswitches aren’t about ergonomics.. it’s all about the feel. They just feel really good to type on! And there’s the aesthetic of fancy keycap sets, yeah. But speaking of ergonomics, this summer I have switched from a basic non-split Leopold to a split keyboard from aliexpress. It’s not tented and the case is made of acrylic layers, so I’m thinking about designing and 3D printing a bottom layer that would make it tented.
I have a vertical mouse.. in a drawer somewhere, was planning to use it in the office :) I only use my G603 at home because I’m not going to play Counter-Strike with a vertical mouse and switching between different mice for work and games is just too much.
I was thinking the same thing—he doesn’t understand mechanical keyboards, or maybe just doesn’t like the way they feel. But you’re right, they are not primarily about ergonomics. Rather, ergonomics are a side benefit to mechanical keyboards. With Cherry MX Blue or Clear switches, I can easily approach 150 wpm (depending on how much sleep and coffee I’ve had) because I’ve become accustomed to feeling where the tactile “bump” is in the switch and that means I don’t bottom out the keys when typing which will prevent RSI and other injuries from long-term use.
If you’re still in an office or a shared space at home and concerned about noise, I recommend the Cherry MX Brown switches. Still great for typing and coding, but not as loud so you can reasonably do things like take notes during a Zoom conference.
I had a couple tent/wedge things 3D printed for my ergodox and have been very satisfied. I found something online and just fired it off to someone on thingiverse.
The desk seems a bit spendy to me. I noticed that once I became accustomed to standing, I rarely felt the need to sit down, so spending more on an motorized sit/stand solution seems … extravagant. I agree that wobbly desks suck, however even with the cheap desks that I’ve had (e.g., IKEA handcranked) I’ve not found this to be an issue.
The keyboard thing I take issue with though. Ergodox has basically ruined me for any other keyboard. I’d rather put more of my money there than in a high or even moderately priced desk.
I’d also recommend a single big monitor to a dual setup. I’m not a fan of the ultra wide monitors, but I also prefer them to duals. At the moment I’ve got an LG 43 and wouldn’t go back.
It’s pretty ironic that he goes straight from “don’t spend money on stuff you don’t need” to “I have a standing desk with motorized control to adjust the height” isn’t it…
I wanted a standing desk, as I’ve used them for years at Microsoft and enjoyed them greatly. You can get standing desks with cranks but I know myself well enough to know I would just be lazy and never adjust it up to standing height if I had one. You can, of course, purchase motorized adjustable standing desks for cheaper - but not by a ton.
I might have been lucky, but in my >>20 years of doing this my main way to deal with RSI and ergonomics is: walk away from crappy jobs. I only have physical problems when I’m stressed, and I’m only stressed when the company I work for is bad.
Looks great! I would do one thing differently: The sit/stand rising desk.
Instead of $835 from Uplift, get the adjustable leg frame from Monoprice for $350 (or Primecables for $379 CAD if you’re Canadian). There are even cheaper models if you don’t want memory buttons or prefer hand-cranked. Even if you go with the cheapest variant, the quality of life is definitely worth it–even for just being able to make fine adjustments while seated (though I do enjoy standing a few hours per day).
I have the Primecables one with a $69 IKEA top and it’s fantastic.
How stable are they near the top of their range? I’ll admit to not shopping around for a standing desk as much as I should have, just took a few peoples’ recommendations for Uplift (they all worked for big tech companies which should have been a warning sign lol)
As stable as I can imagine it being. My office has broadloom carpeting right now so it took a few days for it to “sink” in low enough for full stability, but I suspect on normal flooring it would be maximum stable.
The construction itself is very high quality and very sturdy. It’s decently heavy so it’s nice that each leg has its own motor. The footing design itself is very similar to what you’ll find from Uplift etc.
I’m certain you won’t regret Uplift, but it’s easier to recommend a cheaper option for other people who might be more on the fence. :)
For anyone is the US, I got an adjustable work table from Home Depot on sale for $150 (I think normally $250). It works great, you just have to crank it manually up and down. I usually just leave it up and go to the dinner table to sit. And it has wheels on it, so I can wheel it around if needed.
The keyboard is missing thumb clusters. Hitting the modifier keys with your pinkies is pretty bad, although I suppose if you’re using tools that don’t require you to hit those keys very often (stares angrily at vanilla emacs bindings) then you don’t feel it as much.
I have had a hell of a time finding a way to buy the LG 24” 4k monitor (LG 24UD58-B) in Canada. It’s something I have been looking into over the last year. Only option is directly buying from LG on Amazon/Ebay.
You seem to have some kind of stand for your computer on the floor. What is it?
And why, if I may ask
Just a cheap tower riser stand to keep my computer off the carpet and so improve airflow/reduce dust. Also gives me slightly more footroom.
Something like 5 years ago I transitioned to standing desks, and I really haven’t used a work chair since. Other than the rare times when there’s something wrong with my legs, sitting is now for resting and eating. I’m not absolutely certain if standing so much is that good for the body either, but it’s probably quite a lot better than sitting down all the time.
That’s interesting, I can probably stand for at most an hour or two before it becomes uncomfortable in my lower back and sitting is preferable for a while. How long did it take you to adjust to full-time standing?
Perhaps half a year to a year. I was doing a martial art that had lots of leg techniques at the time, so that probably helped me there. Any other aerobic leg muscle workout would probably be as beneficial.
edit now that I think about it, I wasn’t actually trying to transition to full-time standing. Just over time I felt less and less comfortable with sitting and eventually when I switched offices, I just kinda forgot to pick a chair and that was it. Also, I do sit down for a few minutes every now and then.