1. 23
  1.  

  2. 5

    @kev considering your background: what do you think of the privacy and security impact of having your details visible and easily scrap-able? I also wonder about webmentions and spam (back in the day with WordPress’ linkbacks and pings), is this an issue or has this been solved?

    1. 2

      Great question! I think as long as you’re sensible, the privacy and InfoSec risks are low. For example, I would never put my location out there as my address, it just says “North West England” which I think is vague enough to not be a privacy concern.

      The social profile links are all public anyway, so no issues there; and the email address that I publish is different than the personal email address that my friends, family, tax office, government etc have.

      WRT WordPress and spamming, Webmentions come through as WordPress comments, so you can plug them into Akismet to filter out spam. The Webmention plugin also has a mechanism by which you can whitelist certain domains. So you can automatically allow Webmentions from certain sites, then edit this list as you go. There’s a little work at first, but once you have it setup and tuned, there’s little to do in terms of managing spam.

      1. 1

        Thank you. Good to hear you can allow certain sites and prevent others from sending Webmentions. I’ll have a closer look at Webmentions and see if I can add them to a new project I’m planning.

    2. 5

      I’m not sure I really grasp the added value of the IndieWeb compared to the usual self-hosting of blog without IndieWeb. Is it about the notification part when someone posts one of your articles? Is the idea to simulate a social networking environment so that people feel it’s no different when self-hosting blogs? Anyone cares to enlighten me on this.

      1. 12

        As I understand it, it’s a grassroots effort to enable tooling etc. to get the benefits of social networks and the like without the centralisation.

        It is pretty much in the “toys for geeks” stage at the moment, if it will ever leave it depends on adoption and wether said tooling emerges. It’s a chicken-and-egg problem right now.

        1. 3

          Yeah, cschorn, that’s a pretty good summary of what the IndieWeb is to be honest.

          The TL;DR is that if I link to one of your pages/posts in one of my pages/posts, you get a notification (AKA webmention). If reply, I get one back. You can also create shorter posts that are formatted in such a way to provide a “like” or a “repost” where the post literally says “I liked the post XYZ on Jane Smith’s blog” which includes a link to her Jane’s post. Jane will then get a notification.

          Where the h-card (profile) comes into play is that the IndieWeb uses this to markup comments, posts and webmentions with this data, so that when Jane gets a notification on her blog, she can see it comes from me, it has my name and my avatar etc.

          Hopefully that helps somewhat?

        2. 3

          It feels like the modern equivalent of webrings plus the federated, OSS equivalent of Disqus.

        3. 5

          This article gives a good short summary about creating an indieweb profile.

          I’d like to see a complete overview whitepaper of the “indieweb”: indieauth, micropub, microsub, and a somewhat working setup of them, and their interactions. I have a blog hosted in AWS S3/Cloudfront, with an RSS feed, deliberately no way to comment for readers[justification] . I have checked these topics but found them overwhelming, and actually overly complicated and needing a more costly setup, but maybe I had an incorrect impression.

          I know that not all of the indieweb (non-)“standards” are needed to be supported at the same time, these are loosely coupled things, but I don’t see why would I choose any of them, and the barrier of entry seems too high for no gains (for me at elast), so I’d like some justification. By justification I don’t need the bullshit of “freedom” [on-fediverse freedom], control [on-control], etc, as I have evaluated those, and the pros didn’t outweight the cons (eg. needing a server app for some features, instead of a dumb static host). I have my blog for that already, which gives me freedom, and what I need, and I only see extra cost for unneeded, half baked, constantly evolving, non-standardized anti-features.

          Now this is getting a totally unstructured rambling, but I’d like to see a technological overview with respect to how these thing make up a working user experience. Journeys from user and publisher workflow perspective. Infrastructure needs. And only then the ideological seasoning, with an analysis, how those are served and how those are still limited/at risk even with the indieweb. I don’t expect such an objective and exhaustive overview from the advocates, and I find it overwhelming, to create one just to get the conclusion, that I don’t want this, and get targeted by a flame war. So I stay on my web 1.0 site. Maybe start a webring.

          [on-fediverse-freedom]: Freedom, the main banner-word for the fediverse… where censoring is a central topic every now and then. On my blog I don’t need any censorship, neither for myself (that would be really sad), nor for the commenters (because they are an empty set, see below.).

          [on-control]: Indiweb site tells me bigco won’t control my content. I have an impression of supporting all Indieweb stuff overwhelming, but luckily I can pay for a service to get my presence, eg. for miro.blog. But then I also lost control. Also lets not mention the limited control one still has, as cloudfare or other bigco can decide to remove you from the net by infrastructure denial, if they find that you are controversial, and may hurt their image, or ideology… If you publish only non-controversial stuff, or support any such decisions, why would you choose the indieweb instead of better polished free solutions with better content-consumer reach?

          [justification]: there were times in my country when a site owner had to take responsibility for every content, including comments, and it created an unwanted overhead and legal minefield for site owners. Also most comments are spam or rude talk nowadays, even if one requires FB/Google or other personally identifiable authentication. Lets not talk mention GDPR then, I don’t want to consider anything such for my hobby blog.

          1. 5

            This article gives a good short summary about creating an indieweb profile.

            But it’s missing the other part - how do other sites find you and mention you? If I were to reference the blog post in my blog, what actions would I need to take to ensure the original blog is notified?

            It’s all very well for interested parties to set up h-cards and whatnot, but how the hell does the rest of the parts fit together?

            1. 4

              Yo managed to summarize the question in my head, instead of formulating which I just posted a rambling mind-dump. Thanks!

          2. 3

            I’m curious, has the indieweb landed on microformats for a reason? Even if it’s a tad more verbose my preference would tend to RDFa; is there some form of adoption for that or is it a big no-no for reasons unspoken?

            1. 3

              I might be way off base here, but RDF was a big part of the push for “Web 2.0” - which I see as the spiritual precursor to today’s IndieWeb. The problem was that the entire process bogged down into standards wankery. It doesn’t help that RDF is pretty damn weird, and the proponents didn’t do a great job explaining why the overheard was required.

              I think microformats (which are basically HTML+CSS classes) is a reaction to that overcomplication.

              1. 4

                I’m not actually sure what the rationale was for landing on Microformats.

                As far as I know, it’s only Microformats that have been adopted within the Indieweb. I don’t recall reading anything about other platforms within their documentation.

              2. 3

                I am interested in joining the indieweb community however I am finding it really hard to find a lightweight setup for self-hosting. I feel like I should be able to use a static site generator and a couple of endpoints on nginx to capture webmentions. Am I missing something? I have found it a little difficult to quickly grasp the typical scope of the indieweb.

                1. 2

                  This site seems to have a lot of resources, this is the page for nginx: https://indieweb.org/Nginx

                2. 1

                  So display: none;

                  Would be the worst offense one can do to the “semantic web”. If it’s not shown to the visitor, why bother with using HTML all together for your profile?

                  1. 2

                    Because the h-card is there for the IndieWeb to parse. As I said in the post, the purpose for me personally writing it this way, is so there is a simple block of code for me to edit that acts as my profile. Everything within this profile can be found elsewhere in my site. It’s just a simple way for me to update it for IW purposes.

                    1. 1

                      I feel like it’s a waste of bytes. If data is already there, why not put the classes in those places, instead of duplicating the content?

                      1. 2

                        It’s a miniscule amount of data, and the time it saves me having to parse the codebase of various pages to look for these certain classes just isn’t worth it. I’d much rather have everything in one place.