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    thank u, next culture programming rust words.steveklabnik.com

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    I recently discovered I’m the lowest-paid person on my team, and Mozilla doesn’t pay particularly well in the first place.

    That’s always painful. The entire way our society deals with salary is just ridiculous IMHO, and vastly differing salaries in teams are just toxic.

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      Not all members of a team are worth the same to the management layers.

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      Good luck, @steveklabnik! I appreciate the work you put into getting more people to adopt a safe, systems language. The evangelism team did better than almost all the others in safe, systems space combined. Shout out and thanks to @skade on that, too.

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        TL,DR: former (current?) lobster moving on from Mozilla, still doing rust, getting ready to do more webassembly, looking for work.

        Do we want a post on Lobsters every time somebody dev-internet famous quits their job? That’s more of an orange-site or Twitter feature, yeah?

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          I think it’s fine to have posts like this. It’s interesting to hear his reasons for leaving Mozilla + thoughts on the future.

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            I hear you. What I read in @friendlysock’s comment is that posts like this, with their focus on the author’s life feed a culture of celebrity that veers more towards the orange site despite lobste.rs trying to be something different.

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              I kind of want to gently push back on this. Before I do though, I just want to say I am not trying to defend le orange site, just to be clear. One thing that jumps out to me is that it isn’t celebrity culture to want to know how a company treats its employees. Especially at a place like Mozilla, especially at this moment in time. Something like 8 states have seen teachers trikes in the last couple of years, with one of them set to strike in days. The number of other professions seeing labor activism is increasing after some pretty dark years. It may seem like petty sniping at the boss or the company to some but when I read his complaint the first thing that jumped to my mind was “shame theres no labor organization at hand that was tailor made to help with this sort of situation”. Its important to keep that in mind with these posts, and not file them under what we believe we see as others experience, specifically “this will foster a weird parasocial fandom environment because others will want to gossip about this”. We don’t know what happened at Mozilla but personally my first instinct is not to trust the boss. It may be his life, but we share his condition I guess is my point.

              Something else that occurred to me after I posted my main reply to OP is that Rust itself is, in essence, a novel extension of the political into a software project. It makes the inclusive nature of the community a fundamental element of its development. That might not be totally novel in itself, but its the first time I know where the software in question is supported by an essentially political company, and even more importantly, is on track to power one of the most deployed applications in the world. How Mozilla deals with something like this, and how the Rust community deal with it, have interesting and important implications.

              One last thing is just to repeat something that was said by someone else the last time this conversation came up (I think), the highly technical articles seem to get quite a bit less actual conversation, and I think if people took the time to ask questions, not even deeply understand the topic just contribute a sophisticated guess, rather than fret over stuff like this then this whole conversation would probably go away. People would be talking, learning (as many people profess to want to do on websites like this), and the worry about superficiality would go away. This is something I myself should definitely practice.

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                Thank you for a very considered response. It makes me consider other approaches as a way forward that don’t involve bucketing items based on raw technical content.

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                  and a thanks right back to you for taking the time to cordially respond in kind.

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            A well known developer, who works in one of the most active and watched development communities/languages, who also works at a storied company one of whose products facilitates web browsing for something hundreds of millions of people (which is slowly shifting to using the previously mentioned language, itself a fairly important event) and who actively proselytizes for previously mentioned language all over the internet (and has written a book about this language, published by one of the most reputable tech publishers out there), is (according to him) being shafted by said company, which, incidentally, forms its business model almost entirely around a moral appeal. On top of all of this, the person in question is one of the more outspoken political developers working in free software. TL,DR: its important to me, and I’m glad it was posted here, as I’d like to personally know how mozilla treats their employees, especially since I’ve actually met, socialized and coded with multiple mozilla devs IRL. I’m not sure if its schtick or ideology that drives you to police these threads in precisely this way but I’m not sure you could be more off base on this one.

            as an addenda; its worth also noting that klabnik didn’t just emerge out of the blue last week, he was a well known Ruby developer for years before that.

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              its important to me, and I’m glad it was posted here, as I’d like to personally know how mozilla treats their employees, especially since I’ve actually met, socialized and coded with multiple mozilla devs IRL. I’m not sure if its schtick or ideology that drives you to police these threads in precisely this way but I’m not sure you could be more off base on this one.

              Noone is questioning if it might be important to some subset of lobste.rs users and even if it is important to all users it doesn’t mean that this automatically becomes appropriate for posting on lobste.rs. I personally think that this site is for technical articles which this is not and I would prefer to keep such articles out of here.

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              While we are still interested in what our fellow technologists are doing this week I would imagine this sort of “what I’m doing this week” is relevant.

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                It is, in those threads. Like, we have a special space set aside to handle that sort of reporting.

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                On that note, it’d be great to keep trolling like this on that orange site.

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                  Are you using “trolling” in the sense of “an insincere, outlandish comment made in bad faith to provoke a reaction” or in the sense of “something with which I don’t agree”?

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                    My point raised here was a valid meta question and not trolling–and my (valid) question was left on the orange site specifically because I didn’t think it was pertinent. If you want to hash it out in PMs, you know where to find me.

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                      you sure could’ve done some editing if that was your “valid” point.

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                    I get where you’re coming from but IMO @steveklabnik is a special case. His advocacy is at least a goodly chunk of what has allows Rust to grow into the community it is today.

                    Think of it as a post about the future of Rust, Mozilla, and co-incidentally one incredibly talented, community minded engineer.

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                      We can all make special-case exceptions for our favorite engineering celebrities–and that’s a bug, not a feature.

                      Treating this post as some big marker about the future of Rust (!) or Mozilla (!!) is just the same Great Man theory that I’m willing to wager Klabnik himself would scorn.

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                        Point taken.

                        However I’d argue that if we’re going to make fine point content distinctions like this we could also eliminate a bunch of the posts we see here with clickbait title like “$LANGUAGE is dead!” or “$BLAH considered harmful”.

                        It’s a slippery slope. I thought this post added value beyond just informing us of @steveklabnik’s current and future status, but it’s not a hill I’m prepared to die on :)

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                    Sad to see you go. I’m kinda pessimistic about your time for contribution from now on. Also it’s sad to see this coming from a former mozilla employee. I still remember when it was announced you’d join the rust team.

                    Good luck @steveklabnik