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    Interesting technically, but this isn’t good for legitimacy even if the state is supressing it. Your turnout might end up being crypto nerds and secessionists who are hardcore enough to become crypto nerds.

    [edit:] Overall, I put this one in “trying to solve a social problem with a technical solution.”

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      So the better solution for “legitimacy” is to give up and let the censors steamroll you?

      I’m sure the Catalan government would love to use a fully “legitimate” means of disseminating information to their constituents, but they’re having a bit of a hard time.

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        If they wanted to (and I bet they will) the Spanish government could just raid polling stations. My guess is Spain won’t tolerate this at all and will continue to put up with the whack-a-mole, to avoid setting a precedent.

        The only real two options are get Spain to agree to a legitimate referendum, or to secede with actual firepower to back it up. I doubt either is likely.

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          Spain did not tolerate basques speaking euskera or catalans learning catalan at their schools. Now they have to tolerate it…

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          What about calling for anticipated elections to get a majority of the Catalan parliament to pass the referendum law instead of doing it with half of the parliament against it? The referendum law was approved with half of the parliament against it, which represents more votes than the other half.

          Even for other stupid things like electing the executives of the public television they required a quorum of 75%, but of course not for this.

          This is a dirty play by radical nationalist politicians with an agenda, because they had the chance to make it legitimate but instead chose to sidestep half of the population and elected representatives to push for their agenda.

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          Your turnout might end up being crypto nerds and secessionists who are hardcore enough to become crypto nerds.

          It’s not like that at all. The resulting website is usable without any crypto knowledge. See for yourself: https://ipfs.io/ipns/QmZxWEBJBVkGDGaKdYPQUXX4KC5TCWbvuR4iYZrTML8XCR/en/where-to-vote/index.html

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          A majority of catalan people wants to hold a referendum for independence, with a significant share of the population supporting independence.

          Richest region in Spain wants to stop paying taxes to the central government? Hold my mate, I’m first going to get Lombardy’s independence, then separate the individual provinces inside it after which I’ll convince people to go back to city-states. Smallest taxes ever!

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            Basque people leaving in Euskadi pay taxes directly to their autonomous government and not to the central government. On the other hand, it is pretty shallow to think that Catalunya’s fight for independence is a fight for paying less taxes.

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              Basque people leaving in Euskadi pay taxes directly to their autonomous government and not to the central government.

              From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_communities_of_Spain#Degree_of_financial_autonomy :

              the central government is still charge of levying and collecting most taxes, which it then redistributes to the autonomous communities with the aim of producing “fiscal equalization”. This applies to all communities, with the exception of the Basque Country and Navarre.

              So the biggest of the richest regions wants to also keep it all to itself, just like those two small ones. The poor? Let them eat cake!

              it is pretty shallow to think that Catalunya’s fight for independence is a fight for paying less taxes

              They already have everything else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalitat_de_Catalunya#Autonomous_system_of_government

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                In the three provincial councils of Euskadi (Bizkaia, Gipuzkoa, Araba) and in Navarra (Nafarroa) you pay taxes to the local governement and the local government discusses with the central government how much money has to go the central government. This is a right that Spain gave to a part of the Basques with the constitution of 1978. For the nationalist basque right and conservative party this was a victory. For the left and nationalist basques this was only a carrot that Spain gave to them while using the stick against them at the same time. In Catalunya, and the rest of Spain, you pay your taxes to the central government and then the central government decides how much money returns to Catalunya.

                Anyways, the problem for Catalans and Basques with Spain is not only a money or tax problem. I would say that is the least of the problems. Paises Catalans, Euskal Herria (Basque Country) and many other kingdoms that existed in the Iberian Peninsula where invaded by what is now the Kingdom of Spanish (it is the official name of Spain). What is happening now is not different from what has been happening for centuries:

                You say that they have already everything else. I don’t think so but I think that is a decision that the Catalans and Basque have to do. What I can assure you is that if a “problem” has existed for centuries, then probably it is not only a tax problem.

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                  that is a decision that the Catalans and Basque have to do

                  Yeah, let’s let the rich decide whether they want to pay taxes. What can possibly go wrong?

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                  The poor? Let them eat cake!

                  Right, because justice from Paul’s perspective is that Peter gets robbed and his money handed to Paul.

                  Justice from Peter’s perspective might involve not getting robbed.

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                    Justice from Peter’s perspective might involve not getting robbed.

                    But only after he managed to get an unusually big share of those limited resources, right?

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                I can’t tell what you’re trying to say, but you do understand that no one wants to pay taxes, right? Not even you. Nnnnnope, not even if you claim otherwise in a misguided attempt at virtue-signalling.

                We all pay taxes purely because we’re forced to.

                So would it be so wrong of Catalonians to want to have less of their income confiscated and sprinkled all over Spain? What prevents other regions from being just as wealthy as Catalonia?

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                  you do understand that no one wants to pay taxes, right?

                  Yes, of course. Do you understand why taxes are necessary even if we don’t want to pay them?

                  So would it be so wrong of Catalonians to want to have less of their income confiscated and sprinkled all over Spain?

                  Of course it would. The rich wanting to get richer is why the poor go hungry while we throw away food surpluses and while we plan to reduced the cultivated areas in order to keep the grain prices high: http://www.producer.com/2017/05/world-needs-to-slash-crop-acres-to-cut-grain-surplus/

                  It’s either voluntary solidarity and very modest wealth redistribution or 1789 all over again. Pick your poison.

                  What prevents other regions from being just as wealthy as Catalonia?

                  Fewer natural resources, past inequalities, less attention from the people in power, fewer investments by the central government, etc.

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                    Do you understand why taxes are necessary even if we don’t want to pay them?

                    The Spanish government arranges bullfights using tax money. Well spent?

                    Also some might wonder if there could be better cures for poverty than sponsoring it, but that’s a certain downvote or a few.

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                  Some people prefer the idea of city-states, and a smaller state does not necessarily mean smaller taxes, they have less sources of money so it would ensue that they would take more from those sources.

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                    Some people prefer the idea of city-states, and a smaller state does not necessarily mean smaller taxes, they have less sources of money so it would ensue that they would take more from those sources.

                    What you don’t know is that taxes from richer regions are used to finance poorer regions in a redistribution system controlled by the central government.

                    The plan for autonomous/independent rich regions is to stop contributing to a central government that gives them back in investments less than they contributed in taxes. Once they no longer need to pay for those terrible poor people, they can cut their own taxes as they like.

                    It’s economical inequality at the regional level - the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and we wax poetic about cryptographic solutions for illegal referendums…

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                      We practice redistribution in Canada, so I do know about it. I’m not convinced that independence movements are all about the rich wanting to stop redistribution of ressources, it could simply be about wanting to have more localised redistribution, why send money to another part of the country when you still have areas in your city that struggle with poverty?

                      It could also be about renegotiating that redistribution. for instance, I’ve always felt that the quebec independence movement was always about having more agency on how the provinces ressources are used.

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                        it could simply be about wanting to have more localised redistribution

                        AKA: let my left hand pay taxes to my right hand.

                        why send money to another part of the country when you still have areas in your city that struggle with poverty?

                        Why get rid of that poverty when it’s the only excuse for keeping more money locally? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive

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                          As funny as many of the examples in that link were, I’m not sure it applies itself to this situation.

                          This argument is pointless if you refuse to aknowledge any other intention than short term financial gain on their part.

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                  Also they’re using Telegram channels and groups as well as GitHub web hosting to organize all activities of civil disobedience.

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                    Wow the first legit use of IPFS. This is kind of exciting.