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    I’m looking forward to mine…

    I’m willing to pay for free as in freedom.

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      Sure, but are you willing to pay for broken as in not-what-you-paid-for?

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        You’re think of it as buying a phone.

        I’m thinking of it as an unleashed ecosytem of freedom phones.

        And yes, it’s coming https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

        If you can’t sudo and/or the vendor is trying hard to stop you…. You don’t own that phone, you’re just licensing it.

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          You miss the part where - based on previous experience w/ their products - I don’t trust them to build a product that is worth anything more than a doorstop. What does the Pine have to do w/ the Librem? My issues are specifically w/ Purism as a company and the low quality that they deem okay for their products.

          I just don’t want to use my money to vote for lower quality products.

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          I remember what linux 0.99 was like.

          It now runs everything from all the top 500 super computers to most smartphones.

          Android was a “wrong turn” in that evolution because instead of being something any could and did contribute to, it became Google’s walled garden.

          I look forward to helping, again, set the future back on course.

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            Sure, but if you put your vote into a company is full of scam artists who produce broken and bad software then you are supporting a future of broken and bad software. Up to you, of course. No argument here.

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        To be honest, I requested a refund on mine and bought an iPhone instead. If you look at their release plan, they are essentially shipping unfinished product because they couldn’t meet their (already pushed back) deadline.

        The quality of the laptop that I got from them was also very inconsistent, and the PureOS version it shipped with was super broken on it.

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          I wound up with a Pixel 3a with GrapheneOS on it, despite coming very close to ordering this. Their release plan is nuts.

          I wish I had the time and money to back this. We need people working on opening up firmware. Sadly, I can’t be of any use. If they can keep the project alive, I might be back in a couple of years.

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            If you look at their release plan, they are essentially shipping unfinished product because they couldn’t meet their (already pushed back) deadline.

            Only to people who want that. Anyone who wants to wait for the “finished product” version can request Evergreen or later.

            For me, I’d rather have the device a bit sooner and getting a milled case vs a molded case is a pretty small difference IMO.

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              Sure, but people may be scammed into not recognizing the differences since they aren’t well described. Instead, they will get the unfinished product instead of Purism living up to their product and telling people that their product isn’t done yet.

              If you think that the difference is only the case, then I invite you to read through the differences with a bit more attention to detail. There are a lot more.

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              Could you elaborate on the laptop? I was thinking about ordering a librem 13. PureOS I don’t care much about, I will install my own distro. But, what was inconsistent about the laptop’s quality?

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                PureOS was a real mess for the short duration that I tried it. After that, I moved to NixOS and there are some issues w/ sleeping but otherwise it works well.

                The real issues seem to be from a manufacturing standpoint. The screen looks flimsy, easily becomes dirty, and doesn’t seem very great overall. The device is a librem 13 v4, but it has v3 labelling on the case (what?). It arrived with a stripped screw, so it was a nightmare to try and get my own NVMe disk in there, and I wasn’t able to fully screw it in which just feels bad. It required two months of reaching out to support before I got any response, and it wasn’t anything helpful aside from “maybe you can send it back and we’ll take a look” being the essential response. I ended up buying a different laptop because I felt like it was just a waste of money. After I purchased the laptop, I was being charged every month for a “personal VPN” that I never even used and didn’t realize that I asked for (if I did) and after trying to cancel multiple times, I gave up and just disabled it on the payment provider side.

                The way that they’re releasing the phones leaves me feeling that this behavior is consistent along their entire product line. My guessis that they just didn’t want to say “wait 6 more months” and opted to send out unfinished products to customers instead. Dirty tactic.

                I also paid in BTC, asked for a refund in BTC, and they gave me less BTC than I paid because they “refunded me the USD value in BTC” which really means they profited by holding onto extra BTC in the end.

                It feels like this is a dirty company trying to act like they’re “doing good”, but their products are consistently lazy as well.

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                  Thank you for your detailed response. It’s a shame what happened. I guess I am not gonna order more. I will only wait for my librem 5 (opted for Evergreen).

                  My advice: Please let your voice be heard. If you have a blog, post your experience there. Or maybe create a story here or on reddit, etc. When I looked for librem reviews I found useless yt videos which didn’t seem from a real user perspective.

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                    I also paid in BTC, asked for a refund in BTC, and they gave me less BTC than I paid because they “refunded me the USD value in BTC” which really means they profited by holding onto extra BTC in the end.

                    I doubt they ever held the BTC at all. They probably converted it to USD right away (to avoid currency risk) and so to refund your original BTC amount would have cost them more than they had been paid. This is fairly common with vendors that use BTC as a payment protocol only.

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                      Maybe, but where they put their currency is none of my business to be honest. My business is what I paid, what I got back, and the currency I used to do so. If it converted immediately and told me, maybe I missed something there but if it is abstracted from the user then it is at least a point of confusion. Treating BTC as an intermediate currency feels bad though, if so.

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                        Immediately converting BTC to fiat currency makes a ton of sense for the company. It solves issues with accounting , tax payments, securely storing BTC etc.

                        You would have gotten the same result had they accepted, say, Venezuelan currency, or any other currency that had fluctuated wildly against their pricing currency.

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                          Again, why is that any of my business if a business says that it does business in BTC? Can a company change their banking practices whenever they want to refund you less? If I say that I want my USD back and someone gives me some other currency, is that okay

                          I don’t care that much tbh, but it’s worth thinking about it. It relies on assuming that BTC is a lesser “real” currency. If BTC went down I’d have expected to get the same BTC w/ less value, so do they just get to pick & choose?

                          Your reasoning would break in a lot of cases.

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                            If you had paid in EUR, CHF or Venezulean Bolívars, the result would have been the same.

                            You would pay for your product (developed in the US, so based on USD) in a currency. That amount would have been converted to USD at that day’s exchange rate. The USD would be used to fund R&D, pay suppliers, pay wages and taxes etc. A small amount would be reserved for refunds - this is actually very nice of Librem and I’m impressed by it.

                            Later you would ask for a refund. Librem would take the USD value (minus reasonable fees), converted it into the currency you paid in at that date’s exchange rate, and send it to you.

                            Bitcoin is treated just like any other currency in this case.

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                      I had a very similar experience. PureOS was not good but everything else ran worse. The build quality was not great at all, and after a week or so the performance degraded horribly. There was no rhyme or reason, but I decided I didn’t want to spend even more time on something so unfinished so returned it.

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                        Same suggestion for you. Please share your experience, so people will run into it and will have enough information to decide. I like Purism, but there is not much user feedbacks (yet). I really hope they are not just marketing our fear for privacy, without doing anything decent.

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                          That’s a good idea. The experience was long ago enough now that I can’t recall most of the detail, but I’ll make sure I do so in future.