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    • Finally added invisible resize borders. No more struggling to find a border to grab with your mouse!

    My biggest gripe with Gnome 2’s default window manager fixed after all these years.

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      Normally window resize was pretty convinient when using Alt+middle mouse button. Then the only thing that mattered is that the cursor should be within the bounds of the whole window.

      (same with moving windows around; instead of aiming for the title bar, user could use alt+left mouse button)

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        Absolutely, and I as a computer enthusiasts knew that. But my family did not.

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      I wonder if this will be contentious.

      Linux now has more than half-a-dozen Windows-like desktops: KDE, MATE, XFCE, LXDE/LXQt, Cinnamon, Enlightenment…

      Plus multiple dead ones: EDE, XPde, Razor-Qt. And simple WMs: Fvwm95, IceWM, etc.

      I can name only 3 or so that aren’t:

      • GNOME 3, which I find unusable myself

      • Budgie, which seems pointless as it’s trivially replicated in MATE, XFCE or LXDE with a simple re-arrangement of components

      • Elementary’s Pantheon, which IMHO is just GNOME with an incomplete, dysfunctional Mac-like theme and some accessories. (If only the team had adopted GNUstep or Etoilé!)

      And out of respect, Unity, which is discontinued by its vendor and is struggling on as a community project.

      Why are so many people wasting this vast amount of time and effort replicating and re-replicating the same single desktop? None of them offer anything significant I can see that the others don’t. All the Gtk ones are converging on Gtk3; apart from that, there are 2 Qt-based ones and an outlier with its own toolkit.

      PC-BSD’s Lumina is another one.

      This is a epic squandering of developer effort and time. Why? Why are so many people pointlessly spending so much effort on replicating what other desktops already do?

      Is there any way that some of these projects could be persuaded to converge, merge and combine their efforts and thus either move the state of the art on a bit, or do something different?

      Windows itself can do more things now. It has a taskbar that can be driven by either buttons or icons (which MATE, Xfce and LX* can’t). It can embed controls. It has a touchcreen mode.

      But the Linux world is basically spending 80% of its time on emulating Windows 98.

      Can we please just move on?

      Disclaimer: I don’t use MATE myself, for a single simple reason: it doesn’t handle vertical taskbars usefully. Not vertical panels, with vertically-arranged contents – I don’t want those. Vertical taskbars, like this: https://imgur.com/gallery/fLeAy

      Here’s MATE’s failed attempt at one: https://imgur.com/gallery/dBfjico

      I use Xfce, because it does them well. LXDE and LXQt can too. All other implementations I’ve seen are broken.

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        You can say the same about Linux distributions. Why create/maintain/develop so many of them? With so many different filesystem layouts and package managers … or why Matt Dilon forked FreeBSD into DragonflyBSD because he did not liked SMP model back then … or why Theo created OpenBSD because he wanted more security oriented system from NetBSD instead of just ‘fixing’ NetBSD …

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        Something I can’t help but wonder - now that RedHat and Canonical have all standardized on Gnome 3 and are putting actual money and manpower behind it, does that change how the primary contributors feel about maintaining a Gnome 2 fork?

        I’m not asserting or suggesting anything with this - the project’s raison d’etre could very well likely remain unchanged.

        I’ve really enjoyed MATE when I’ve used it. It’s fast and light and has everything I can think of needing in a desktop.

        However I enjoy being able to contribute to the Linux desktop mainstream by running Gnome3 mainline and making what meager contributions I can to that community.

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          Money is not everything. Look at systemd. Red Hat is throwing tons of money and how many people hate systemd? How many people abandoned systems and moved to other systemd-free Linux distributions or even FreeBSD or OpenBSD?

          Its similar with GNOME 3 - and frankly speaking - GNOME 3 is not fun/usable for me at all …

          From the ‘ready to use’ systems I like Ubuntu MATE the most, especially with its mimicking possibilities like REDMOND setup or CUPERTINO setup.

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            I appreciate where you’re coming from here, but having been someone who has read a fair bit of what you’ve written over the last few years, I can tell you without a doubt that you are in the top 1% of 1% of UNIX users. Your needs are very highly specialized, as are your preferences.

            As to systemd and users abandoning Linux because of it - some are, for sure, but I can tell you from personal experience that there are literally millions of servers crawling around out there that could care less about systemd or old school init or upstart - so long as the instance boots and the code runs, nobody cares.

            It’s all about orders of magnitude.

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            FYI Martin Wimpress is the Co-founder and Project lead of Ubuntu’s Mate and also Canonical’s Director of Engineering of the Ubuntu Desktop :)

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              I know! He’s a really neat guy. I’ve never been in the right context where I felt like I could ask him this particular question :)