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    I’ve never quite understood, but aren’t 9front releases mostly just bug-fixes? Or when was the last time a larger new feature was added.

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      There are a whole bunch of larger features. The last release added support for the raspberry pi 4, which involved adding support for the arm64 architecture. Recently enough, there was hardware virtualization (http://man.cat-v.org/9front/1/vmx), a new VPN (http://man.cat-v.org/9front/8/tinc), transparent SSH networking (http://man.cat-v.org/9front/4/sshnet), new TTF renderer (http://man.cat-v.org/9front/2/ttf), a clone of dtrace (http://man.cat-v.org/9front/1/dtracy), and much more.

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        Plan 9 is already more or less done. 9front just keeps up with the maintenance and provides a place for you to send your driver patch. You shouldn’t expect it to change in fundamental ways.

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          So one shouldn’t expect them on creating a new browser or some larger application like that?

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            If someone wants to make it, we’ll make it. I recently implemented git, although it’s not part of the base system right now.

            A browser is unlikely: Modern ones are giant. Minimal ones are incomplete. We’ve got 2 crappy ones already, and I’m not aware of anyone willing to sign up to write third, let alone chase the ever-shifting web standards to a degree that will make it more useful than mothra or abaco. My personal opinion is that we’d be better off improving and extending vmx to make running a web browser under an emulated Linux work better.

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              but what do you expect? something like systemd, office or an ide like visual code? well plan9’s creators comes from the same team of unix so there inst a “large application” every pieces of software inside plan9 (and now 9front) fits together.

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                That’s the thing, since I never used Plan 9 or related applications for extended periods, I wasn’t sure what to expect. Of course the examples you list aren’t probable, but Plan 9 users aren’t aliens – they still have the same problems they wish to solve as regular users.

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                  this might give you some idea of where things stand, re: applications, and getting work done:

                  http://fqa.9front.org/fqa8.html

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                    I think you need to give a shot to know what we are talking about

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                As for this, I am wondering, does the Plan9 folks feel that modern touch interfaces are inferior to mice? That is are such interfaces in the horizon at some point, or are they relegated as not useful at all?

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                  given a choice i prefer mice. while the form factor of the desktop computer is no longer universal, the main reasons 9front lacks complex touch support are: the devs hate touchpads; touchscreen devices are multivariate, complex, and less open than their pc-like counterparts; and, most importantly, nobody has yet contributed any code.

                  for example, many years ago plan 9 was ported to the ipaq. the base system still ships with an onscreen keyboard designed for use with the ipaq’s stylus.

                  in 9front there is also support for serial wacom devices. i drew this in paint(1) on a thinkpad x61 tablet:

                  http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/paint/img/nooo.png

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              I’m shocked (in a good way) people haven’t expressed outrage at 9front’s propaganda. http://9front.org/propaganda/

              Maybe because it’s blatant satire, so no one could possibly think that they were literal nazis.

              Unfortunately in today’s social climate humor is becoming less and less acceptable. Anything mocking, outrageous, edgy, or otherwise not-mainstream can make your coworkers feel unsafe or uncomfortable. A react programmer was nearly crucified after he made the OK symbol with his hand during a conference talk.

              https://twitter.com/ken_wheeler/status/1164934308366340096?lang=en

              And it was 4chan that started that “OK symbol = white power” troll, specifically to troll everybody into thinking it actually had any kind of white power meaning. It’s like the media can’t help but play right into 4chan’s hands. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49837898

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                4chan is also packed to the rafters with open and unironic white power enthusiasts so it’s not particularly giving your arguments any credence. When you do something ironically enough times that unironic enthusiasts of that thing are more prevalent than the people who do it ironically, then it’s no longer ironic, it’s just that thing.The thing that makes 9Front different is that they also espouse literal opposites as propaganda. It’s like putting skateboarding is a crime on your skateboard.

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                  Can you think of a reason why recycled Nazi propaganda, even as a joke, might cause some people earnest anxiety, in our present moment?

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                    Which of those images are Nazi propaganda? I can see a V2 launch, but I’m not sure it is propaganda any more than archival footage. I see far more references to the US nuclear program and radiation than anything else (Which I suppose could be offensive to some).

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                      For the same reasons a repurposed Jurassic Park screencap might?

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                        For the same reasons a repurposed Jurassic Park screencap might?

                        I don’t understand the reference or implication here, can you spell it out for me?

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                            Maybe just riffing on Operation Paperclip? Who knows, actually…there’s even a photo from the Alien 3 set, which really sold them to me. Alien 3 is a strange flick.

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                      Maybe because it’s blatant satire, so no one could possibly think that they were literal nazis.

                      I think it’s because there imaginary is all over the place. You’ve got Kennedy, Mao, 30’s Germany, Orwell, movies, etc.

                      As far as I remember They also had have the communist manifesto somewhere in their source , which I guess ends up worrying other people (and sometimes the same).

                      Edit: It’s in this directory, under manifesto: https://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/file/82cc8a9cd294/lib

                      And it was 4chan that started that “OK symbol = white power” troll, specifically to troll everybody into thinking it actually had any kind of white power meaning. It’s like the media can’t help but play right into 4chan’s hands. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49837898

                      That was particularly mean, because on the one hand it started as satire, but at the same time it became a symbol, because it was satire, making it an actual symbol, beyond satire, masked as satire. Quite honestly, it was executed masterfully, it’s really a surprised it even worked.

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                        Quite honestly, it was executed masterfully, it’s really a surprised it even worked.

                        Heads they win, tails we lose: the more the symbol is used by fascists the more people talk about how it’s a fascist symbol; the more people talk about how it’s a fascist symbol the more cryptofash, fash-lite and fash adjacent people mock the notion that it’s a fascist symbol - thus giving cover to fascists who use it.

                        Feedback loops, oof.

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                        Unfortunately in today’s social climate humor is becoming less and less acceptable. Anything mocking, outrageous, edgy, or otherwise not-mainstream can make your coworkers feel unsafe or uncomfortable.

                        This is such bullshit and I’m tired of hearing these tired and lazy talking points repeated without question any time the topic comes up.

                        Humor is not “becoming less and less acceptable.” What is actually happening now is that, at least in the United States, we are slowly starting to be aware as a culture, in fits and starts, that the status quo in place for most of the history of the U.S.–where it was okay to use people in a perceived lower social class as punching bags and call it “humor”–is actually maybe not okay and not a cultural value we want to keep and moreover, not even funny. And in response what we are hearing is a bunch of people getting butthurt about not being able to talk shit about whoever they want without repercussions…and claiming that actually they are just being “edgy” and the rest of us snowflakes can’t take it. It’s the same bullshit as when Rush Limbaugh was complaining about political correctness hampering his ability to say racist shit without getting called on it back in the 90s, and he is still making money, so obviously things haven’t really changed that much…yet.

                        You know what edgy humor is? Scott Thompson going to Russia during the Sochi Olympics and flaunting his gayness in a place where that could get him arrested or beaten. It’s the Monopoly guy showing up to senate hearings, or, basically anything The Yes Men do. It’s the Satanic Temple unveiling a Baphomet statue at the AR state capitol to make a point about church and state. It’s the Chappelle show’s Frontline Sketch about Clayton Bigsby but, unfortunately, not Dave Chappelle making jokes about trans or gay people or doing racist Chinese accents–that stuff is old and tired.

                        So maybe if you’re saying shit that makes your co-workers feel unsafe and uncomfortable, you should first ask yourself if you should really be saying shit that makes your co-workers uncomfortable (if it’s not about the work itself) or unsafe, and then consider whether it’s really that important to be able to freely make “edgy” and “outrageous” jokes in a work environment. It’s probably not. I will go out on a limb and say that you’re almost definitely not contributing anything useful if you’re making people feel unsafe, and you should probably be fired.

                        I don’t think any of this is particularly hard but yet, a lot of folks seem to have trouble figuring it out. Hopefully this helps.

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                          Why would you bring this up? At best, it’s off-topic…at worst, it could result in an outrage ball that could result in issues for 9front or the removal of that comedy.

                          Why?

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                            Unfortunately in today’s social climate humor is becoming less and less acceptable.

                            It’s all fun and games to cry “wolf!” when everybody knows there’s no wolves for hundreds of miles around.

                            It’s not cool to cry “wolf!” in a dark forest when the howling of wolves is carried clearly on the midnight air.

                            My point is: if I tell a joke and my audience doesn’t laugh, blaming the Fun Police might soothe my ego, but really I should think about what my audience will find funny before I try again.

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                              Are we even looking at the same thing? Can you explain what, exactly, you’re reacting to? (Maybe a screenshot?) All I see is a bunch of random images with their logo on them.

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                                Maybe because it’s blatant satire, so no one could possibly think that they were literal nazis.

                                How could anyone get the impression that they are Nazis from that collection of almost entirely Nazi-less images?

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                                  Someone started a rumor that the ok sign is white supremacist and then white supremacists started doing it en masse so it’s safe to say it’s officially a white supremacist symbol now. You’re playing into their hands by allowing them to maintain plausible deniability.

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                                    How should anyone who lives outside the social media filter bubble know what symbols are used by extremists now and thus are not okay to use anymore? I never heard of this rumor before and do not know anyone who has.

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                                      The user I’m responding to posted a link to the BBC, it’s not just some social media thing.

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                                      Rather than flipping out, why not just claim it back by doing it for the exact opposite reasons? If you don’t they will just do the same thing with a million other symbols… maybe thumbs up is next?

                                      All that you are doing by perpetuating the idea it is a white supremacist symbol, is losing a little ground.

                                      The original trolls who started that joke must laugh to themselves every time they see someone mention it seriously like you just did.

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                                        No, the white supremacists who use it as a white supremacist symbol are perpetuating the idea that it’s a white supremacist symbol.

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                                          The point is the same, why allow that? They are just gonna steal thumbs up and the peace sign next. Is there not a counter to that?

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                                            Yeah, the best counter is to organize and smash white supremacy.

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                                              Yeah, but even then, when can we do okay signs again?

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                                                It’s a lot like viking runes, Nazis picked em up for their propaganda, using them doesn’t mean you’re a Nazi but if you see someone with a bunch of them they might be a Nazi. People who have viking heritage and want to have an artifact of their culture avoid the most propagandized ones.

                                                You can do whatever you want. It is a white supremacist symbol now. If you see someone doing it in a situation that seems overtly racist, they’re probably a white supremacist. If you see someone doing it when someone would say ok, it’s probably not a white supremacy thing.

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                                                  Do you actually think this is a question I can answer or are you making some kind of point?

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                                                    It’s a serious question.

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                                                      I’m a lot more worried about the increased frequency of hate crimes in the last few years than when I’ll be allowed to use a specific hand gesture again to be honest with you.

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                                                        I’m worried about the rise of hate crimes, for sure. But, I’m also worried about the Internet’s ability to cause irrepairable harm to innocent people. It’s incredibly easy to take some tweet, some forum post, some photo out of context and cast someone as $X because of $Y, and $Z. “They used a certain hand gesture, and wrote a tweet 3 years ago that, if you squint, suggests they support nationalism–they’re a white supremacist!”

                                                        The downvoted OP linked to a tweet where this seems to have happened. I don’t know anything more than what is in the thread, but guy is bald, used an OK sign for another reason, suddenly he’s the same as Richard Spencer.

                                                        I don’t want to make light of White Nationalism! Far from it. But, we cannot assume, by default, that everyone is bad, and we seem to be doing that more by default. Of course, this could be, and probably is to some degree, reactionary to the rise in hate crimes…