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    Lots of us still use Firefox. I don’t know how that means “lost the browser wars”. Providing something that millions of people use which isn’t completely evil seems like a big win from my POV.

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      i have stopped for different reasons (all imho):

      • the web can’t be rescued anymore.
      • mozilla constantly knee-caps itself with doing less then ideal things like:
        • buying pocket and deeply integrating it instead of as addon.
        • not really opensourcing their sync servers (last time i’ve checked it was a broken python/node hack, not the official version)
        • just replacing the plugin system with something worse. for example, the old tree style tabs was amazing, and the author did it’s best to replicate it with the new system, but it’s not as good.

      i was so pleasently surprised when the new rendering engine was released some years ago, but then the (again imho) bad decisions started instead of focusing on creating a slim browser with a fast modern engine, targeting “techies”. even a good alternative to webkit/blink engines to embed as “webview” would be great.

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        mozilla constantly knee-caps itself with doing less then ideal things like

        I’ve never really understood this argument, honestly, because it really seems to come down to imposing some sort of purity test that only one browser is required to pass – everybody else can just get a zero over and over and over and still be assumed a good choice, but if Firefox gets only a 99% score instead of 100%, well, now we have to think long and hard about whether Firefox is still a realistic choice.

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          Great reply, a good argument that works on many topics!

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          The problem is that making a modern web browser is expensive. Giving it away free doesn’t make money. Mozilla is trying desperately to not be propped up by Google as an antitrust lightning rod, but failing.

          I still use Firefox most of the time, but I don’t think the modern web is redeemable.

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            but what has this to do with my points? :)

            The problem is that making a modern web browser is expensive

            imho, netsurf has amazing rendering capabilites for it’s development resources.

            so, let me rephrase:

            the web can’t be rescued anymore.

            the mainstream web can’t be rescued anymore. it’s a too quick moving target for anyone not able to spend millions on browser development.

            it’s just not worth the fight for me, especially as i generally dislike the webification of the internet (everything-over-http). i just want to use my online banking etc. without (intentional) bugs. i don’t dislike mozilla, but i’m not using firefox anymore as it tends to make my life harder with no big gains. the mainstream focus doesn’t work, while other browsers seem to claim the important tech-affine userbase.

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            Expecting Mozilla to be “perfect” may be asking too much of them. It is made up of humans, after all.

            Regarding Pocket, while it is annoying, I was able to remove it from the new tab page via a setting. A better default may be preferable, but is there a deeper integration than that?

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              i never expected anyone to be perfect, as i’ve written, all points are imho.

              i just don’t see how they can gain more market share with the current decisions. i was pleasantly surprised that thunderbird is getting some attention again, though.

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              I just can’t agree that the web can’t be rescued any more.

              Mozilla does have to make changes as time goes on and sometimes they’re going to hurt people’s feelings, but it’s worth remembering that their addon system is taking that risk. The opposite of taking that risk is giving you a half-assed addon system with nearly no internal integration, which you get with Chrome. We need to give some level of flexibility to them somewhere.

              As for pocket, maybe it wasn’t approached perfectly but I think they had good intentions in mind.

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              I’m a Firefox user, and love it. But as far as I know, the percentage of people using it is pretty low (I saw 4% recently, but haven’t done any research myself).

              I can’t imagine that Mozilla’s goal is for only 4% of people to use Firefox, and perhaps that’s what the article means by “lost the browser wars”.

              But you’re also right. It is a big win that there is a great alternative to Chrome.

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                I guess that my point is that we shouldn’t care about having 90% of users if we are making 4% happy. Firefox is not at a point yet where websites tend to not support it, which is still a rare case. This means that we are still doing okay.

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              I’m just waiting for Google to break uBlock Origin. It’ll be a lot easier to coax people into installing Firefox once it has some real, unavoidable, tangible benefits.

              I’ve already got people running Firefox for Android because of it.

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                They have no privacy anyway, though. They’re already running Firefox within Android. Do you realize how tightly Chrome is integrated into Android?

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                  Firefox has First-Party Isolation. That’s its killer feature.

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                    First-Party Isolation is cool, but it’s basically invisible. It doesn’t have the kind of quality-of-life improvement that uBlock can provide on some sites.

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                      It doesn’t have to be invisible. Up to you.

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                  I use links2 as a CLI-based browser. It’s surprisingly great and I learned a good deal about what’s important in an HTML document and how I want to write front-ends. I’ve also looked at Midori, but if I’m going with a GUI I still like Firefox.

                  Chrome I use for WebRTC-related tasks like video chats with friends and professional contacts. I’m definitely not a FOSS purist, but I try to rely on it whenever I can.