1. 12
  1.  

  2. 13

    The article posits attachments that don’t extend the message length as “embrace extend extinguish” despite the fact that the source and protocol are totally open, AGPL 3 even. The idea of adding image urls to the message length is frankly stupid and is the cause of the promulgation of URL minifiers which cause less skilled users to get infected because they’re clicking links to random websites with who knows what content. Sure factional politics in open source is a thing, however it’s important to notice too that Mastodon has that feature because Mastodon users wanted that feature. If you want GNUSocial to drive the changes it needs to attract the audience to drive that change, such is the nature of an interconnected system.

    1. 22

      Why do we say kleenex instead of facial tissue? Branding matters a lot, and Mastodon has done a much better job of branding than the fediverse as a whole (which is largely down to, Mastodon is an entity that can brand, whereas “the fediverse” is nothing but a notional collection of OStatus/ActivityPub participators with no central branding arm).

      Besides, most non-technical users (who we’re increasingly seeing on Mastodon/The Fediverse, as opposed to the highly technical early adopters) are in the market for services, not protocols. Users never talked about being “on the XMPP federation”, it was always “here’s my AIM”, “here’s my gchat” etc. They still understood that these things worked together, but they weren’t interested in pedantic distinctions between hosting software and protocols, nor should they be.

      1. 7

        Users never talked about being “on the XMPP federation”, it was always “here’s my AIM”, “here’s my gchat” etc.

        The difference is that XMPP was primarily about having one kind of conversation, and the fediverse isn’t.

        The main use of the fediverse right now is for twitter-style interaction, and that’s fine, but Pixelfed’s photo sharing, Peertube’s video sharing, and Plume’s long-form publishing, and now even chess-over-activitypub servers are becoming an important part of the fediverse in a way that’s more than just “yet another implementation of the same idea”. So if you group all that stuff together under “Mastodon” just because it uses the same protocol, you’re missing out on a whole lot.

        1. 9

          So if you group all that stuff together under “Mastodon” just because it uses the same protocol, you’re missing out on a whole lot.

          If you’re a user, happily telling people that you’ve moved from Twitter to Mastodon, and you no longer doing Instagram but they can catch your photos over on Pixelfed, and you enjoyed some peertube videos, and doing your blogging on Plume…

          what precisely are you “missing out on” just because you’re not lumping all of these disparate services under the meaningless blanket term “The Fediverse”? It strikes me as nearly the equivalent of complaining that users talk about using Facebook and YouTube and LiChess instead of just lumping it all under the blanket term HTTP.

          1. 5

            you no longer doing Instagram but they can catch your photos over on Pixelfed, and you enjoyed some peertube videos, and doing your blogging on Plume…

            The whole point is you’re able to interoperate with all those services from a single account.

            Your friend joins a Mastodon instance and starts following your Peertube account, so they get all these videos in their stream. They’re going to be very confused if they think that they’re following only “Mastodon users” because Mastodon doesn’t offer the ability to publish videos.

            It strikes me as nearly the equivalent of complaining that users talk about using Facebook and YouTube and LiChess instead of just lumping it all under the blanket term HTTP.

            A better analogy would be if they thought they had to install a Facebook app and a Youtube app instead of realizing that they can both be accessed thru a web browser.

            1. 2

              What’s so confusing about being able to follow PeerTube publishers through Mastodon? I can follow quite a few YouTube publishers through Twitter; it’s just that it works out of the box instead of needing ITTT.

              1. 3

                Yes, that’s my point. It’s not confusing in the case you describe because you’re aware that YouTube and Twitter are different things.

                My example was about the case where someone isn’t aware that anything but Mastodon exists on the fediverse.

                1. 2

                  My example was about the case where someone isn’t aware that anything but Mastodon exists on the fediverse.

                  This is a marketing problem that “WELL ACTUALLY, you’re on the ‘fediverse’ silly user, not ‘Mastodon’” is certainly not going to solve, any more than “WELL ACTUALLY, you’re using GNU/Linux, Linux is the name of the kernel and GNU is…” fixed Herd adoption.

            2. 1
              s/HTTP/The World-Wide Web/
              

              Valid complaint.

          2. 8

            Yeah, it’s a bit like people who insist that other people say Gnu/Linux, and I get it, they’re right, but they’re also not going to get what they want.

            1. 1

              I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Mastodon is to the Fediverse what Ubuntu used to be for GNU/Linux desktop systems.

              Not a judgement call there… just an observation. This type of naming issue will come up over and over again pretty much forever :)

              1. 3

                I’m….not sure what you’re trying to say? Like, it will overshadow it for a while but then it will be cleared up? Everyone just says Linux now

          3. 12

            Mastodon has already replaced OStatus for ActivityPub, along with most of the other compatible servers.

            I think it would be more accurate to say that they’re ActivityPub implementations rather than Fediverse implementations. The Fediverse is then the collective space of AP-compatible servers.

            1. 5

              I was going to say something along these likes. Switching from OStatus to ActivityPub is not a protocol extension, it’s a complete protocol change, and the fact that Mastodon and Pleroma both still speak OStatus to GNU Social instances is kind of an accident of history.

              I agree that people should be aware that the fediverse is more than Mastodon, but for heck’s sake, don’t use GNU Social. If you don’t want to use Mastodon, use Pleroma (which is generally considered the successor to GNU Social). ActivityPub has its problems, but it’s so much better than OStatus in so many ways.

              1. 1

                Care to list some of those ways instead of slinging mud?

                1. 4

                  The main thing that I care about is that it has message addressing. OStatus is broadcast-only, and everything is 100% public. ActivityPub delivers messages to Inboxes (including the special Public inbox), so you can implement things like direct messages and closed groups on top of it.

                  It’s also intended to be extensible in a way that OStatus isn’t, though that’s a can of worms I don’t want to get into.

                2. 1

                  Good point. I forgot that OStatus was still supported.

              2. 7

                Oh… The same why we say “xerox” for copiers, “u-haul” for hauling rentals, “uber” for ridesharing, “google” for search, “pc” for all non-Mac x86 compatible computers long after the death of the original IBM PC… And conversely, we use “android” for all the individual brands, even though nobody calls iPhones “iOS phones”.

                We use whatever word forms the strongest association with a new thing in our head. There’s nothing nefarious about it, and there’s no “cause” to be “lost”. The ActivityPub-based social network for short messages is called “mastodon”, get over it :-)

                P.S. Yes, I’d argue that even though ActivityPub allows federation of all the different forms of content, we’ll continue to use “mastodon” predominantly for short messages.