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    Having built a similar product, IKEA got many things right on their first try. I’m curious how they’ll handle remote API access securely.

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      The prices for Hue came down quite a bit. Didn’t notice that before, nice :)

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        the only bit that surprised me was the intro

        The idea of Ikea plus internet security together at last seems like a pretty terrible one, but having taken a look it’s surprisingly competent.

        why would ikea not be expected to do it right? they have a reputation for being extremely competent when it comes to getting all the small details correct.

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          For furniture, sure, but do they have previous IOT experience? I wouldn’t expect Ikea to produce super high quality IOT lighting software, or any software, just because it’s not their thing.

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            You’d be surprised:

            They do seem like a company that cares about their software.

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              75% of their catalog is CGI

              I’m obviously getting old - I initially thought “75% of their catalogue uses CGI scripts - that’s not terribly modern!”.

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              Albeit many years ago, I’ve worked with IKEA as a consultant on their catalog printing and at least back then they had very competent software engineers in the company to support that effort (making that catalog is no simple task). Writing software might not be where their revenue stream comes from, but don’t underestimate the inhouse capabilities in such a monster company where everything from catalog production to website to logistics and inventory management runs on.. software.

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                do they have previous IOT experience?

                So many companies with long and storied histories suck ass at security. “Experience” might just mean “Oh, hey, we know we can leave gaping security holes and the market will let us get away with it”.

                The thing to always remember is that a culture of competent and thorough engineering is nearly always going to trump buzzword “experience”.

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                  This is 100% correct. It was even true when INFOSEC was invented as the founders started as teams of smart people just carefully thinking about security effects on each aspect of the lifecycle. A small, almost-fringe number of people doing that caused emergence of high-assurance security. They also reused anything proven to help subgoals as engineers do.

                  I’m obviously not expecting Ikea to repeat that. However, just right culture and time/effort invested could lead engineers to Google their ass off, read INFOSEC books/articles, and talk to people in field. They’d then apply what they could within their constraints. Many IT people do this, esp in smaller firms. Hell, they have to do that for everything since they can’t afford specialists. Works pretty well, too, for most I meet.

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                  i am a bit sceptical about the idea of IOT needing to be “in a company’s dna” for them to do a good job of it. getting things right is very much in ikea’s dna; i’d trust them to hire the right people to make that happen.

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                  What sort of reputation does IKEA have with respect to software?

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                    that’s the thing - the actual software implementation is something you can hire for. what you need from ikea’s side is a willingness to identify the people who know what’s important to get right, hire them, and then listen to what they tell you. from what else i’ve seen of ikea i’d definitely trust them not to override the people who say “look, we need to get security right before shipping anything”

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                    Wait, what? Aren’t they known for incredibly-hard-to-assemble, fiddly-as-hell furniture kits with such laughably tiny tolerances and complex instructions that the notion of most customers sitting in a pile of screws and bolts crying into their hands is almost a cliché?

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                      that’s the popular joke, yes, but in reality i’ve found their furniture startlingly well-made for flat-pack stuff, and relatively easy to assemble as long as i get another person to help me (it’s a pain with just one person).

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                        Fair enough. Me, not so much. I don’t think it’s easy to assemble and often found bad stuff like threads just not machined properly, tolerances so tight that tears and breaks are inevitable, etc, to the point where I stopped buying and using it. Maybe it’s better these days. I just know that I saved myself aggro by not buying it any more.

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                          Also, where would a “popular joke” come from if it had no basis at all in truth? Do people joke that, I don’t know, Apple products are poorly designed and don’t work properly?

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                            Also, where would a “popular joke” come from if it had no basis at all in truth?

                            Assume the following:

                            a) Flat pack furniture is, in general, very difficult to assemble.

                            b) IKEA is the most well-known manufacturer of flat pack furniture, serving as a readily identifiable eponym for the genre.

                            Now consider proposition c: IKEA furniture is incredibly easy to assemble, and !c: IKEA furniture is very difficult to assemble.

                            (A ^ B) ^ !C allows the joke to hold quite nicely. (A^B)^C does not; but that means you need to find another readily identifiable company to serve as a specimen for “flat pack furniture” - I’ve actually considered this for many seconds and can’t, can you?

                            Therefore the joke is made irrespective of C! \qed

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                              no, they joke that you cannot rename an MP3 in iTunes without a personal phone call to apple HQ for permission. again, a slight exaggeration.

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                                Are we using the same OSX?

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                            IKEA wouldn’t be the global giant it is if their products were that poor or hard to assemble (hint: they’re not, and the instructions are very well done).

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                              Well, in my experience that’s very much not the case. It’s time-consuming and fiddly, and I’ve bought other pieces from other places which have been so much better designed, prepared and tooled, with so much better quality materials, that it really stunned me how much better they were than IKEA and how much hassle those things are and how much time they take. Personally I think they’re the global giant they are because they’re cheap and they use aspirational styling. Which is obviously totally fine and if you like their stuff that’s fair and great for you. But, “hint”: that doesn’t make your opinion fact and mine “incorrect”.

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                                Could you tell me what those pieces are and where you got them from, because I’ve found IKEA uniformly excellent and I’d be delighted if I could find something even better.

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                                  Main one was a WaterRower. You’d think a rowing machine of all things would be complicated. I was just blown away by how easy and solid it was to put together, everything just slipped into place and the thing is built like a tank.

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                          I’m glad they went with CoAP… it’s a pretty good / appropriate protocol….

                          Just a bit sad they made it obscure. They could have trivially made the API a lot more friendly….

                          https://bitsex.net/software/2017/coap-endpoints-on-ikea-tradfri/

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                            Good. Wake me when it does colour.