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    Tag proposal: Zig meta

Proposal for a new tag zig that would apply to posts using the Zig programming language. I think there is enough posting about it to warrant a tag.

Here are a few posts that would benefit from such a tag:

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    I am against because: 4 of the 6 links you posted are from the creator. If we award tags from that behavior it sets a bad precedent.

    I am for because: It would allow me to filter Zig out.

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      I don’t think you want to filter Zig out, since you seem to post in every zig-related submission.

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      I would prefer we maybe even remove plang specific tags. IMO zig is not ready for its own tag. Where is the cobol tag? Where is the forth tag? So on and so forth.

      I think there is enough posting about it to warrant a tag.

      All the links you posted are months apart from each other.

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        Lobsters seems to get more Zig submissions than COBOL submissions. That is very unreflective of the real world, but Lobsters tags are for Lobsters submissions, not for the real world.

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          Lobsters has more Nim submission than Zig submissions. And if I use any other metric, Zig is non-existent, e.g. Github repositories: it has fewer than 10.

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            I don’t actually care about whether lobste.rs has a zig tag, but this claim is simply false

            GitHub reports 136 public repositories which both have the tag zig manually selected by the maintainer as well as using the Zig language.

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              Oh, I was searching via language, Github must not have indexed those projects yet, only 2 results show up: https://github.com/search?q=language%3Azig

              Still 1/10th the size of Nim, though that may be due to differences in age.

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          In regards to the COBOL and FORTH tags, I have not seen nearly as many active COBOL and FORTH posts as I have Zig posts. Also the creators/maintainers of those languages are not as active as the creator/maintainers of Zig are on this site.

          I think that the discussion on whether any language should have a tag (which is a fine discussion to have) is separate from if Zig should have a tag. In my opinion the question is, given that we have language specific tags should Zig get its own?

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            There are languages with a vastly larger audience that don’t have a tag, and imho shouldn’t have a tag, my favorite language included. Tags are not a magical boon to a language, in fact they are liable to have an opposite effect if the audience isn’t large enough. I am not a fan of Zig, but I do think it deserves a fair shot as much as any other. If given the chance, perhaps it will one day turn into a language I’m excited about. Without that fair shot, that day will never come.

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              I don’t think that the main purpose of this site is to be an incubator for languages, but a place for people to discuss articles related to tech. So, to elaborate on my post above, in my opinion the question is*, “would a tag help users of this site find/avoid a topic?”, not “would the tag help the growth of said topic?”.

              *given that we have language specific tags and given how tags are currently being used to filter for topics

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                I don’t think there is enough audience or activity to make a zig tag useful or interesting, either to filter or search for. I would probably filter it out if it existed, but it would not be a very useful or good filter because it would filter out an article a month. If we are going to create a new tag I would actually prefer something that covers Rust, C, C++, Zig, D, Go and the various other low/no gc languages that primarily value performance.

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            Agreed. As an alternative proposal, perhaps having tags for types of languages would be more useful. For example, a tag for languages are that typically compiled (e.g. C, Go, Rust) and a tag for languages that are typically interpreted (e.g. Python, Bash).

            (Yes, yes, there are languages that may fall in one category or another based on the context, but in those cases, the appropriate tag can be used by the poster; I’m not suggesting that the tags draw hard lines based on the language being discussed)

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              A little finer grained than that would be nice but yes. The ML tag gets used by OCaml, F#, Haskell etc.

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            My usage of tags is to filter them out. If your goal is to proselytize Zig you may want to be cautious as the outcome of this may not be in your favor.

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              Tags are also useful for searching historical submissions.

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                In this case, with as unique a name as Zig, standard search suffices.

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                  The name might not appear in the title or might appear in an unrelated way. Manually-curated tags are supposed to be smarter than that.

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                    Well, we have full-text search. There aren’t many examples (at the moment, most submissions mentioning Zig are about Zig), but here is one story that shows up in a search for “zig” but only contains mention of it in the article text (not the title or comments).

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                Seems like Zig tags would be a win-win for Zig lovers and haters then!

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                  I don’t know if turning the Zig posts into an echo chamber is strictly good for Zig lovers. Stagnation is death.

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                  They do both. They highlight the submissions for someone that sees or clicks the tag. They also filter them for someone that doesn’t want to see them.

                  Far as proselytizing it, the kind of people that put in a filter are going out of their way to avoid it. Submitters tagging something as Zig will probably not reach them anyway.

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                    That’s a fair claim. I will then say that filtering out Zig is a low value proposition for me, there’s just not that many posts.

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                      Yeah, that’s true.

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                  Launch Zig tag! For great justice!

                  (sorry, couldn’t resist)

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                    What about zag?

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                      Zag set us up the bomb. I hate that dude.

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                    Proposal: just allow arbitrary tags already. This bikeshedding about whether a thing “deserves” a tag is so silly. Everything deserves a tag! Or two!

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                      How do you do this without it devolving rapidly into instagram where the kids just dump a dozen completely #irrelevant #tags into every #blessed #winning post, or just spamming the system in general? Tags should serve readers first, authors second.

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                        Laarc supports putting in whatever tags we wanted. Worked well enough in practice. It’s a tiny site with the advantages that brings. I don’t know what would happen if it was as large as Lobsters.

                        I really did like how tagging wasn’t a burden. I just put in what I wanted cross-referenced against what I saw people were already doing (i.e. consistency).

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                          There was an article I can’t find now, about some online community that allowed any kind of tags. The beauty of the system comes from the moderation team that tries to link similar tags together, enabling better search. Seems like something worth having.

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                            1. You’re thinking of https://archiveofourown.org, I think.

                            2. I’m guessing you found it through lobsters, because it’s right here: https://lobste.rs/s/mubgr2/fans_are_better_than_tech_at_organizing

                            3. As you can find by looking through the comments, it is hardly a utopia. Because of course the question of whether two tags are synonymous, or whether a tag should be considered a subset of another tag, is not a value-neutral choice with a single right answer. Just off the top of my head: is #Electron a subset of the #DesktopApp tag, is #GoLang a #SystemsLanguage, should #RaspberryPi be considered #Embedded, should #LLVM be a subset of the #Apple tag, and should #RustLang be a subset of the #Mozilla tag?

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                              Yes, you’re absolutely right, that’s the thing. I couldn’t find it via Google or DuckDuckGo, tho.

                              Also, maybe going for such binary decisions is not the right way to do it. #DesktopApp and #Electron are certainly related – over time one can see the intensity of that relationship.

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                                The more “nuanced” your system tries to be, the more difficult it will be for people who don’t spend all day using it to understand. The Lobsters model, for all its faults, is trivial for newcomers to grok and long-timers to predict; everybody can figure out what its faults are in two seconds, and we know how to work around them. On the other end of the complexity scale, you get stuff that works like general web search engines, which are basically impossible for anyone to predict even if they do work on it.

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                                  Yeah, with that I can completely agree. Simple things go a long way.

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                              This sounds like Pinboard.

                              https://blog.pinboard.in/2011/10/the_fans_are_all_right/

                              The primary(?) use of tags here is for filtering, not finding though.

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                                No, not Pinboard. It was some small community but I forgot of what. Need to dig up the article from the history, once I’m in front of my computer

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                                  An Archive of Our Own? Let us know when you find the link!

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                                    Maybe LibraryThing?

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                                Its fundamentally different though, because tags are for filtering things out rather than promoting.

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                                  No they do both. That’s why you can click a tag to find related content. Example.

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                                    Ah I see, thanks for pointing that out.

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                                    For you they might be for filtering stuff out, for Sarah down the block it might be for finding more about a particular topic.

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                                Another side of this question: how many people want to filter out zig posts at this point? I personally don’t want to, but I know that’s one of the purposes of tags.

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                                  For me, it’s less filtering as it is finding previous submissions - if I want to brush up on a topic, or quickly check if it hasn’t been submitted already and the dupe checker forgot.

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                                    There’s not enough zig posts for me to care. A search for “Zig” gives you a pretty full history afaict.

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                                  I agree: the more tags the more I can filter out ;)