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    This gives me that feeling again, that I should throw away my stack and redo it.. Until the next cool web-tech comes around. It’s nice but at the same time I’ll have to ignore it to keep my sanity.

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      It’s a pretty great stack, even without going full LiveView. In fact, I’d almost caution folks not to go that way just yet.

      (Honestly, the Rails refugees brought over a lot of culture to the Elixir ecosystem…with LiveView (and Surface, and some other things) we’re about to accumulate a bunch of React refugees too. This is a mixed thing.)

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        Thing is: I want this for rust :D Or rather: I want a sync-backend in language A and I want a webinterface for the same data that could be written in LiveVIew, so I don’t have to deal with vue/react/.. anymore. I could try to do that with one database, but it doesn’t sound easy, locking wise.

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          (Honestly, the Rails refugees brought over a lot of culture to the Elixir ecosystem…with LiveView (and Surface, and some other things) we’re about to accumulate a bunch of React refugees too. This is a mixed thing.)

          Could you elaborate on this? How do you see it as a mixed bag? What have the Rails refugees brought?

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            Well, Phoenix, for starters–and technically Valim made his bones in the Rails mines, so there’s that. :)

            More generally, I’d say the refugees bring:

            • A certain desire (and lack of restraint) around the use of macros.
            • A desire to bring over certain tooling from Rails, regardless of how good an idea it is–ExVCR, for example, is something that is basically a port of a Ruby gem.
            • A cheerful ignorance of the Erlang ecosystem and tooling that it already provides.
            • Especially a cheerful ignorance of the foundational best practices that have worked for Erlang (and hence the BEAM) for decades…so, things like “hey maybe you don’t need to shove all this shit into k8s or containers”.
            • The whole cult of personality/celebrity that plagued Rails and Ruby for a long time.
            • A lot of ignorance around the foundations of Elixir/Erlang…things like processes, functional programming idioms, and so forth. Basically, the problem we used to have around Rails programmers vs Ruby programmers.
            • An excitement around excessive process usage.

            They also bring a lot of new energy, so there’s that. It’s not all terrible.

            EDIT:

            An example of where this is a problem…folks debugging LiveView might miss that it is built of boring old GenServers. They might be confused about what sorts of interactions (read: don’t do slow sync stuff) they should allow, or they might miss why when a process crashes the page reloads and looks normal. Things that are obvious if you’ve done non-web/non-Phoenix Elixir work.

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              So a bit of an ugly American situation? From the outside, the ruby community always seemed like it produced good talks and documentation. Maybe that’s a temporary problem that will be mitigated as the refugees find their footing. (Or perhaps I’m misunderstanding and it’s a difference between the rails and ruby communities?)