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    begin rant

    I have never used Windows as my primary operating system but I thought with WSL I could consider it. I have a burner laptop I use for when I absolutely have to run Windows (usually work related).

    Windows 10 is awful. The amount of bloatware is incredible. Alerts popping up to tell me to subscribe to OneDrive. A ton of XBox crap I won’t ever use and can’t uninstall. Ads in the start menu.

    And it’s unusably slow. The little burner laptop isn’t particularly fast, but it’s name-brand (HP) and all that jazz…and resizing windows or right-clicking to open a menu can take tens of seconds. I figured out it’s due to the Windows Defender antivirus scanning; disabling that makes it barely usable but I’m surprised that it’s that bad. Supposedly it only runs when the box is idle, but I think what they consider “idle” is wrong. (It would happen when I was videoconferencing, which definitely isn’t “idle”, and tax the system to the point that I’d lose connectivity.)

    Then you have the weird split between Metro and Classic apps. Why are some things in the Settings app, and other things in the Control Panel?

    I remember, years ago, when Windows seemed to be “put together well”…now it seems really Frankensteiny.

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      Yes it’s amazing how much they messed up the config screens with Windows 8 and many years later they still haven’t fixed it. They need to make up their mind, either move all the functionality to their pretty new screens, or move it all back to the old style config panel, but as it is it’s incredibly confusing to find under which screen is which config item.

      I was using Windows 7 on an old laptop the other day - everything is nice, clean and logical. I don’t get how they could mess everything up so badly with Windows 8.

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        I agree that Windows can be pretty crummy out of the box, especially if the OEM adds a layer of crud. If you find that you need to use Windows more often, it’s not too painful to get a clean install and remove a lot of that annoying stuff.

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          That’s unsurprising. With every Windows, I had to go through a first step in disabling all kinds of bad stuff and installing good stuff (i.e. Microsoft alternatives). Then, Windows was a great platform to use. Even Windows Vista minus its RAM usage. It sounds like you didn’t do the initial, cleanup step that’s pretty much mandatory for a positive experience with Windows.

          I’m not going to encourage that since I think it’s a waste of your time given you’re rarely on Windows. ;) I am mentioning it as a reminder for anyone reading that thinking it’s inevitable or even you if you ever want to see how good you can make it just in curiosity. I’m sure there’s piles of guides on Internet to assist given how resourceful Microsoft forces people to get.

          EDIT: Windows 7 Professional was the last, great Windows. I’d buy it today if they resold it under a perpetual, per-machine license with security or other fixes. They can basically charge us each year for the fixes. Make everything optional like with Windows Embedded. We could easily turn off what we don’t want. I’d be a happy camper.

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            There’s an easy way to remove almost all of the bloatware, search google for ‘powershell script remove appx’

            A good guide is here: https://www.askvg.com/guide-how-to-remove-all-built-in-apps-in-windows-10/

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            Sounds like decent stuff but I do find it amusing that some really basic things are getting big headlines: “Notepad Supports Linux Line Endings” and “Copy/Paste Arrives for Linux/WSL Consoles”.

            I’m hoping the console improvements are actually useful since the worst part about the WSL (aside from I/O performance) are the really poor consoles in Windows, including current 3rd party offerings.

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              I actually did get excited about a couple of those. Which I guess just illustrates how low the bar was to begin with!

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                including current 3rd party offerings

                ConEmu is pretty good. The only problem I’ve noticed is that it likes to put the cursor one line above (than the actual prompt line) in my zsh prompt :D

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                  ConEmu is an ok console, but it’s a poor Terminal Emulator, in my experience. (In part due to lag and some minor issues when processing VT-100 codes).

                  If you don’t use Vim or co, it seems to do quite servicably

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                    I used it for neovim in tmux, haven’t noticed any problems (though it’s not very fast indeed)

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                    UPD: another issue: in ConEmu, paste doesn’t work inside tmux. Switched to wsltty (mintty) :)

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                    The user, of course doesn’t (shouldn’t) care about how hard something was to implement, but the people writing these release notes are biased by that sometimes, it’s only normal. The LF change must’ve been a ton of work. Most of it probably not coding, but still work.

                    I don’t know it for a fact, it’s just speculation based on experience. By the way, I work at Microsoft though nowhere near notepad.exe.

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                      Yup. it’s amusing, but sadly it’s a Thing. I adopted WSL here at work because for some kinds of access it’s Windows or the hiighway and WSL is a LOT better than being stuck in CMD.EXE/ Powershell.

                      Thing is the cut&past experience at least before these changes was AWFUL. I’m embarrassed to admit that our workflow involves a LOT of cut&paste, and the experience was abysmal.

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                        The Notepad update was quite interesting considering it took 33 years for that basic feature to finally be there. No more opening config files and seeing nothing but a very long single line.

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                        The release tag is good for things like this.

                        That said, we don’t want Lobsters to become a flood of changelogs.

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                          … and that’s why you can filter out the release tag if you feel like there are too many! Neat feature.

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                          I’ve been using Windows as my main driver at work for two years and I don’t hate it but its far from perfect. After this update I have moved from Ubuntu 16.04 in a Hyper-V VM with MSYS2 to WSL and I welcome the change with open arms. The default terminal emulator that comes with the different WSL distributions is god awful and I found WSLTTY which is so good because it allowed me to continue using my preferred MinTTY settings and colours.

                          Its still not like using Linux full time but I can feel the tides changing.

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                            The improvements here are nice, but man, I miss when the WSL changelogs were all about improving compatibility. Still no support for running containers in WSL, and last I checked interop between WSL and Docker for Windows involved fairly gaping security holes.

                            I can see why they’re focusing on terminal emulators, though: the existing Windows ones are real bad. That being said it’s not a huge pain point for me personally, because I run Xming to get an X server on Windows, and install urxvt via apt-get and use that. It’s not exactly seamless — high DPI support is pretty finicky, for example — but it’s enough to suit my personal needs, so I’d hoped for more kernel-level features.