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    Stuff like this makes me miss the time before walled gardens and siloed and closed ecosystems. I used to hang out on IRC (and still do), but now I also have Signal, Mattermost and Teams.

    Instead of the mess of incompatible chat clients I want something like IRC, just with a refreshed protocol that can handle modern needs. Of course, it’s a lot harder to monetize that, and here we are.

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      https://xmpp.org/ gives the open protocol a shot. It’s was the basis for WhatsApp and apparently Zoom, before they switched.

      However, the biggest engineering challenge in messaging is no longer about scaling, reliably moving messages around or adding multimedia to them. The protocol is fairly superficial to these three anyway. The big platforms invest heavily in spam protection and in organising against antisocial behaviour. If IRC became magically as popular as the walled gardens (and the scaling challenges were addressed) then think how painful the abuse problem would be.

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        The lack of efficient abuse mitigation on IRC was one of the reasons cited for Mozilla to move their developer’s chats off the platform.

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          The big platforms invest heavily in spam protection and in organising against antisocial behaviour.

          Can’t you just not invite people you don’t like to your chat channel??

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            Lobsters doesn’t work that way, for instance, and it’s presumably still worthwhile to you.

            The moderators here invest substantial time in community management and spam prevention.

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              Lobsters doesn’t work that way, for instance, and it’s presumably still worthwhile to you.

              But lobsters works like that. You invite people you like and kick/ban people you don’t.

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                You can’t kick people you dislike from the instance you are using. Neither can you stop me inviting them to it.

                You can run your own instance of the code, like barnacles, but that’s not lobste.rs, it just shares the code.

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                  You can’t kick people you dislike from the instance you are using. Neither can you stop me inviting them to it.

                  the mods can. If I don’t like how the site is run, I can just leave.

                  Can random users kick people on any of those big platforms?

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          Instead of the mess of incompatible chat clients I want something like IRC, just with a refreshed protocol that can handle modern needs.

          I think you’ll still have to deal with a mess of incompatible clients if we went back to IRC, unless all the IRC clients in the world were magically updated to support IRCv3 and all its extensions. I’m just envisioning a future where you send a message to your friend’s channel and they ask you what you sent, because it looks broken on their client because it only supports the draft version of the V3 FooBar extension, etc.

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          Huh, isn’t the whole idea behind ChatOps to execute code remotely in Slack? ;-)

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            This is actually a business decision, so Slack can compete with Terraform, Ansible et al.

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            Maybe this is not the right thread but what alternatives are there to the official client?

            The open source alternatives listed on GitHub haven’t seen updates in many years and often don’t work with Slack installations that use MFA like Okta. I am aware of Ripcord but it is not open source.

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              Use the web browser version.

              It’s still their bloated js shit but at least it’s running in a proper browser security sandbox.

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                I wonder if that saves an appreciable amount of memory because it’ll be sharing a copy of the browser’s code with the browser that you already have open, rather than having its own separate browser.

                I’d presume no more than a few MB because eh code isn’t that large? But maybe I’m wrong about that.

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                  I frequently have to reload the tab, but that’s relatively quick. But the main advantage is that the browser is a lot better at sandboxing than electron is.

                  I prefer wee-slack when I can, but the threading support there isn’t quite good enough, so I end up needing to keep both open.

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                    the main advantage is that the browser is a lot better at sandboxing than electron is

                    We’re in agreement on that. I was just wondering if maybe you also get a few side benefits.

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                    I just quit and re-opened safari. The slack pinned tab, reports ~440MB “real memory” (i.e. before any memory compression as I understand it), but ~160 of that is shared, while ~280 MB is private.

                    If I disable all the browser extensions, the shared memory goes down, but the private stays about the same (which is kind of expected I guess).

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                  Maybe https://matrix.org/docs/projects/bridge/matrix-appservice-slack but many larger organizations have policies that disallow unapproved clients.

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                    weechat-slack is pretty good too

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                    Damn that’s a low bounty. That’s pretty much the holy grail of vulnerabilities.