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    This isn’t the first iPhone SE. Apple did this before, putting a 6S processor in a 5S case. And that model was discontinued before the new one was ready. If the original iPhone SE wasn’t a turning point in smartphone trends, why will this one be?

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      Seems to me like the leap between the first SE (which dropped four years ago) and this one is pretty big. A13, much larger display, etc.

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        I honestly don’t get the hype. The first iPhone SE was 400USD as well. I think it’s a good phone, and awesome that Apple is still selling cheaper devices, but there’s nothing here that’s a game changer. It’s just the same as the last model - an older device body with some updated components and a $400 price tag.

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          I think the smarter idea with the SE is to make the base model baseline still a nice experience (hence the A13 and such), but make the higher end desirable with newer design, higher end camera features, bigger screens, etc. An equivalent $400 Android phone probably isn’t going to come with the best SoC on the market. Using a lot of parts bin stuff that’s been amortized, and Apple’s making a profit on this. (Previously, Apple’s strategy was the “low end Ferarri is a used Ferarri” strategy, which, while iPhones have longer lifecycles, it probably ends up with people hanging onto things like 4Ses just to have an iPhone at all, which isn’t desirable from an ecosystem PoV…)

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            I don’t need a game changer. I need a phone.

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            Honest questions: I have stopped paying attention to phones years ago, but it was my understanding that the CPU/RAM problem was “solved”. Having the best, the second best or a four year old CPU won’t change much for the regular user (I guess phone reviewers and people who play action games are the exception).

            If I use my phone for chatting, browsing, perhaps watching youtube videos and this or that social network, what difference does it make? Is it to be expected that phones a few years in the future, all apps will require so much more computing power?

            I’m skeptical, because the real bottleneck in my eyes remains the battery. Both in terms of day-to-day usage and lifetime. People who develop for phones have to consider this factor when writing apps. But phone producers are reluctant to increase the battery size (setting aside technical/security reasons), because that’s usually what kills a phone after 2-4 years. It used to be that they were too slow or the RAM didn’t suffice, but as I said, I see these things as non-issues.

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          I just want Android phone companies to start making small phones again.

          I had the Nexus 5 and it was great. Before that I had the Samsung galaxy chat and that was great for the physical keyboard, albeit a bit slow.

          I am sick and tired of phones that I can hardly hold in my hand, and I don’t want to pay the Apple tax.

          The iPhone SE looked very interesting as it sells for 400$ in the US but for some reasons is 499€ in my country, and that’s a big let down (not sure why op who is from Paris is citing the US price).

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            As a happy iPhone SE user, I’m annoyed that the new one is… quite bigger :(. I have rather tiny hands and would like to be able to use my phone with just one and the new form factor is just ad the edge of uncomfortable.

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              The iPhone SE looked very interesting as it sells for 400$ in the US but for some reasons is 499€ in my country, and that’s a big let down.

              The SE is 489EUR in Europe, not 499EUR. Most of the difference is due to the sales tax. 400USD + NY sales tax is 400EUR, while 400USD+ EU sales tax is 445EUR. Why there is an extra 44 Euros on top of that, I couldn’t say.

              (not sure why op who is from Paris is citing the US price.)

              Frankly, I’m not sure either. I guess I assume everything I write on the Internet has a majority American audience. I don’t know why I assume this.

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                I think your math is a little off. In France, the price before tax (HT) is 395 Euro. In the US the price before tax is 399 USD. That’s about 370 EUR at today’s exchange rate. So it’s only around 15 Euro extra excluding taxes. I suspect you can attribute that difference to the shorter US standard warranty. In the US you only get 1 year of standard coverage; in the EU you get 2. 15 euro for an extra year is actually on the inexpensive side for that difference.

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                  Sure, I could be a little off, but you get the idea. I definitely missed the big difference in warranty, good point.

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                If you’re looking for a modern, Nexus 5-sized device, take a look at the Samsung Galaxy S10e. It’s a smidge taller, but only slightly.

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                  I also find large phones awkward to hold and carry around but I’m very happy that they exist because I have bulky fingers. Small touch screens and bulky fingers make a terrible pair. Years ago I had a Samsung Mini and it was terrible, it took me two minutes to write an 80-character SMS.

                  The iPhone SE still costs way more than I want to spend on a phone, but I figured I might make an exception because I’d use it for a long time. I tried it in the shop and the best that I can say is that it was probably entertaining to watch me try to type something on that thing.

                  Honestly, I just want phone companies to start making phones with keyboards again – my old Nokias had really tiny buttons, but the fact that they had shape and volume made them easier to handle. But that ship has long sailed, I guess – now I’m happy to settle for something large enough to allow me to text in peace.

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                    Same for me, just with the Nexus 4. After I installed cyanogen mod, I was spoiled for life.

                    I guess one reason phones have larger screens, is that the bezels have been decreasing, even though I personally don’t think that legitimizes the development. You still have to reach for more screen space.

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                    Something else to consider; the average age of a registered car is 10.7 years in Europe, and Google quotes 11.8 as the average age in the US. Possibly this is skewed somewhat by people collecting classic cars, but for decades, a new car has offered few advantages over a used one.

                    PCs have reached a similar level of age indifference; today you can buy a 5 year-old used laptop or pc, and expect to get at least another three years of use out of them. When you buy new, you expect to get at least five years, and I see people around me using laptops for over ten years.

                    While there’s a growing market for refurbished phones, all of them seem doomed by the limited number of years Apple and Google will support older models.

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                      I’m using a number of ~10yo (9 and a half, more, but still…) Android phones almost daily, one of them in its original duty as a phone, others for different purposes - remote-controlled media player, trailer camera, etc. Even though the manufacturer - Motorola - never got beyond Android 2.3.6 they’re all running 4.4.4. One of them doesn’t have a screen (it got broken in some distant past), that is the one in use as a trailer camera. The thing is, these older Android phones are still useable for many purposes, from their original gadgety-communications-device role to those things I mentioned and more, due to the free software nature of Android and Linux.

                      With Apple the story is a bit different, they do offer longer support than most Android vendors but once they drop a model it quickly becomes useless. Some devices can be ‘jailbroken’ and with that their useful life can be extended a bit but since the size of the hacking community around Apple devices is nothing compared to that around Android it takes a lot more effort to get things done. Seen as curves the Android ‘usability’ curve starts going down earlier than the Apple one but once Apple drops support their curve quickly sinks below that of Android devices of similar vintage. In both cases it takes a bit of hacking to extend the useful life, more in the case of Apple hardware.

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                        With Apple the story is a bit different, they do offer longer support than most Android vendors but once they drop a model it quickly becomes useless.

                        How did you get to the conclusion of rendering Apple device useless after support is dropped?

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                          Depends on your use, I suppose.

                          My ipad quickly became useless for my use because I needed to install or upgrade apps to evaluate [… digression elided], and that quickly started demanding newer ios versions. If your use is to keep running and using the apps you already have, nothing bad will happen, AIUI.

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                            So basically same as w/ Android? I don’t recall difference between two platforms as per the comment bias.

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                              The big difference is that with many Android devices there are AOSP-derived distributions which can be used to keep the device up to date once vendor-supported updates have ceased.

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                                No, not basically the same. The same in principle. The key word is quickly.

                                Apple is good about providing upgrades and coercing users to upgrade, and the flip side is that app developers feel free to drop support for old versions quickly. Being two or three versions behind on an ios device limits your app selection much more than being two or three versions behind on android device.

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                                The biggest reason that the old iPads are “useless” today is that today’s apps use too much RAM and CPU - something a new OS version isn’t going to solve. When today’s latest iPads are five years old, this is likely going to be less of a problem since performance increases aren’t as huge any longer, but for the first five years or so of iPads this is the biggest limiting factor. IMHO.

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                              I don’t doubt that they’re useful for other purposes, and you’re probably right that we should be making better use of them. But personally I don’t like the idea of using an internet-connected device that’s limited to a seven year-old operating system.

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                                The thing is, they’re not limited to whatever version of Android the device is left with when the vendor ceases to support it. Those AOSP-derived distributions can take it along for the ride more or less until the hardware can no longer support the newest version, e.g. because of the 32/64 bit shift. The Galaxy SIIIneo which I mentioned was left by Samsung at Android 4.4.4, it currently runs Android 9 through LineageOS. It gets weekly OTA updates, the latest was on the 20th of April. As long as these projects support those devices they will stay up to date. They are supported until there is not enough interest from developers, which again depends on the number of users who want to keep those devices in use. There are some hard limits on support like the mentioned 32/64 bit shift, others are a lack of driver support for those platforms which rely on closed-source blobs, hardware capacity limits (memory, GPU, SoC) being exceeded by newer versions of the operating system, etc.

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                              Something else to consider; the average age of a registered car is 10.7 years in Europe, and Google quotes 11.8 as the average age in the US. Possibly this is skewed somewhat by people collecting classic cars, but for decades, a new car has offered few advantages over a used one.

                              Similar to cars, a lot of the advantages are in the realm of safety and security features you don’t want to become important. A 2020 Accord has measurable improvements in structural safety components over a 2010 Accord, and a 2020 iPhone has security features that 2017 iPhones don’t have the silicon to support.

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                              This is ridiculous. The iPhone SE is not a commodity. If you want to compare it to the automotive industry, it’s an entry level Porsche.

                              It starts at a price high enough that most people can’t afford for a superfluous expense such as a smartphone.

                              It might be cheap from the perspective of a software engineer making good income and having high job security, but that’s not most people. For it to be a commodity, shouldn’t most people be able to afford it easily?

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                                Unless you only consider Apple devices, then it’s kinda cheap. Total cost of ownership is important too – I’ll gladly pay a bit more for a phone that lasts longer. Apple’s commitment to recycling is important as well.

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                                  I understand that total cost of ownership and recycling are different stories. But I know many people with lower incomes (or no interests in technology) that will do longer with an $80 than most iPhone users. I will also bet you $1000 that if we pick 100 random iPhone owners, no more than 3 will cite recycling as a reason for buying Apple on their own.

                                  Your argument about only considering Apple can easily be countered with extending my analogy to “unless your only considering Porsche”.

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                                    Apple devices only last longer in the sense of Apple supporting the hardware for a longer period of time. Android vendors often only offer 2-3 years of support but the slack is often picked up by AOSP-derived Android distributions, extending the useable lifetime way beyond those 2-3 years. Distributions like LineageOS offer OTA updates which makes them just as useable by non-technical people as stock distributions. There’s a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 from 2012 and a Galaxy SIIIneo from 2014 in use here which are running LineageOS with OTA updates, after I installed the original image I have not had to do anything other than to press ‘OK’ to keep them up to date. Battery life is still OK, the SIIIneo lasts for about 2 days of use as a phone and media (music/netcast) player, the Tab 3 has a standby life close to 3 weeks, screen-on about 7 hours. Not bad for an 8 year-old device which never had its battery replaced. The battery in the SIIIneo can be changed in a few seconds if needed so even if it were to go dead I could replace it easily.

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                                    I feel your analogy is a bit wrong. To me, SE isn’t an entry level premium, it’s a middle class phone. You don’t have premium features at all here.

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                                      A commodity is something made to a standardized quality that can be traded in bulk. Manufacturers then don’t have to worry what well their oil came from, or what farm grew their potatoes. Conceivably, you could apply this label to the affordable Android phones - they all use similar chipsets, have similar capabilities, and run the same OS; the logo on the outside matters very little.