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    Meta: Is Haskell a gateway drug to keyboard design, or are alternate keyboard layouts a gateway to Haskell?

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      Speaking as a professional Haskell developer and goofy keyboard user… Imho, there’s a confounding factor: people with a high pain tolerance and neophilia. Neophiliacs go and get interested in messing with a new language or new keyboard design then they also have a high pain tolerance to deal with learning new keyboard layouts and new languages.

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      Advertising, with no prior engagement. :(

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        Hi, my apologies, I might have been not used to the rules/culture of this place… Let me apologize if this link submission made you see some unwanted ad spam. I was thinking that the story we posted might have some value as a technical reading, but ultimately you’re right, it serves as an advertisement as well. From now on I’ll be more careful when posting links here and try to separate technical content. Again, I’m sorry for disturbing your pleasant afternoon (although you might be in a different timezone…).

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          No worries, and congrats on a product launch. The problem is just that this site would quickly drown in marketing and advertising if people’s first few interactions here were posting their products or services. :(

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            I like the video you have demonstrating the board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th7KZzGz17s -

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              Thank you… I’m pretty sure that, if I manage to survive another decade, my friends will then share that video to embarrass me… But that was the best I could come up with with the limited budget (The video took $15 to buy a tripod to stabilize the filming). I’m glad that at least one person liked it… 😂

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                All those friends should envy you since you actually did something instead of being an armchair critic 😉

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            Agreed, but there is interesting technical content as well: https://moonrim.io/compare - although you could call that advertisement as well, but a 10 page advertisement then.

            Maybe I just like keyboards too much to be annoyed by advertisement that appeals to me. (So ads about cool ergo boards).

            This should have a buyer beware title, because it’s a crowdfunding and you might not get a product (or three years later like the UHK) and lost your money.

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              I want to upvote but the thing seems super suspicious. Just at the crowdfunding stage.

              Are there other, similar keyboards on the market?

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                Hi. Maker here. I hope the following helps remove some of the suspicion:

                • Some design ideas of this has already been tried and produced. If it helps, you might want to take a look at ErgoDox, Keyboardio, and DataHand.
                • We’ve built a prototype and, admittedly, the technological barrier is not high to make this thing if you have some knowledge in electronics and programming. The issue is more of how to gather enough people to make mass production feasible; To make plastic injection molding financially viable, we need at least about one thousand people willing to buy it, hence the fixed funding goal. Speaking of which… The goal is fixed (instead of flexible funding goal) so if it doesn’t reach $200k before the end of the campaign, the funding will be canceled automatically and your payment will be refunded in its entirety.
                • If you doubt whether I’m a fraud or not, you are totally rightfully so. It seems there are so many crowdfunding scams these days… So, if, by any chance, you are interested in my track record: I’ve worked as a software engineer in South Korea for a while. I’ve been an organizer of Haskell-KR for a while, so my name is not entirely unknown to the Korean programming community. (If you look at the backers list, you’ll see the early backers are mostly Koreans with typical Korean names). My previous workplace was LINE, where I held a programming language boot camp that was featured officially on LINE’s engineering blog. And… If there’s anything else I can do for you to trust us, please never hesitate to tell us.
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                  I love me some split keyboards. I just wrote this article on my five year adventure in split keyboards: https://raymii.org/s/articles/Split_keyboards_a_five_year_review_including_the_ErgoDox_EZ_Matias_Ergo_Pro_and_Kinesis_Freestyle_2.html

                  The fixed goal is nice, that gives people a bit more trust to join in with the funding. I’ve sadly got bad experiences with Indigogo’s where money just vanished without a product. That is, you are not buying a product but supporting a project and maybe getting a perk.

                  I’m absolutely not saying you’re a fraud and I love the project, will probably back it since I do love me a good keyboard.

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                    Ditto wrt indigogo and vanished money. I’d be more inclined to contribute to crowdsuppy, kickstarter, or, alternatively, massdrop, all of which I’ve had great experiences with, but indigogo is a red flag as I see it.

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                      Indeed if you compare Kickstarter and Indiegogo, the former has a higher reputation. We did want to use Kickstarter, but opening a project on Kickstarter demanded permanent residency of one of 26 countries (1). We’re Koreans living in South Korea, so we sadly couldn’t. :(

                      (1)

                      Project creation is currently available to individuals in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, Singapore, Mexico, and Japan who meet the requirements below.

                      https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005128594-Who-can-use-Kickstarter-

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                        I was sold the second I saw this keyboard. I’m not thrilled about indigogo, but I see what you’re saying regarding kickstarter and you have my support. I hope to see moonrim II get fully backed. Good luck!

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                        FWIW, there have been some pretty successful projects on IGG, like the ErgoDox EZ. Of the 5 projects I backed there, three already delivered, a the fourth is on track to deliver too. The only project that vanished with my money on IGG was the Jolla Tablet.

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                          I completely forgot about the Ergodox Ez - as a long time user of the classic ergodox (massdrop kit) I backed the EZ on indigogo well and have never regretted it.

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                      We’ve built a prototype and, admittedly, the technological barrier is not high to make this thing if you have some knowledge in electronics and programming. The issue is more of how to gather enough people to make mass production feasible.

                      I appreciate your candor on this point, and overall in the campaign description and demonstration video.

                      I’ve been considering alternative keyboards for a couple of years now, and thought about using my 3D printer to build a Dactyl keyboard, which is also a concave columnar layout, but did not find the time. One thing I missed was an integrated pointing device: I thought about adding one, then contemplated all the changes I would have to do for it, and decided to leave it for later.

                      Having you deal with all that is well worth the crowdfunding price for me, and I just backed it.

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                        Thank you very much 😂 We really want to deliver a quality product to you. As this is a fixed funding goal and it gets canceled if it doesn’t reach the goal, we desperately need to spread the word to gather about 1,000 people. If there’s any chance anyone around you might also be interested, please tell them. Again, thank you so much for backing Moonrim II.

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                        The only thing that sticks out is the price. It is oddly low. :)

                        In any case: good luck on this mission! I love the idea, and yes, I’ve heard of those keyboards. Yours doesn’t look anything like those, but like a kinesis advantage pro that is domed.

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                        You could buy an ergodox and glue / Velcro it to a bookshelf stand (bookend)? or two planks at an angle (reverse T)

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                      I’ll never understand verticality. When I rest my hands on a table, they appear to want to rest at a 30,40-odd degree angle or flat. Not at 90 degrees.

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                        Hi, thanks for a good input. We do have second thoughts regarding the tilting angle. The prototype uses 75° and we haven’t made the final decision about what angle we will use for the production model. Perhaps it’s best to provide adjustable tilting. We’re open to suggestions, and will appreciate your opinion.

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                        I’m super psyched for this. My main hesitation about buying a keymouse was the flat hand position when I’ve switched to a vertical mouse years ago and it’s way better. Hope this thing actually ships!

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                          Not my cup of tea, but it’s interesting to see projects like this, vaguely reminds me of the failed kickstarter “king’s assembly”.

                          moonrim video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th7KZzGz17s it looks a bit too early for a crowdfunding campaign.

                          Thought for the creators - have you considered skipping the metal mold and perhaps doing a very small batch ‘artisanal’ run using layers of cnc’d wood? Something where you make a very small-batch run to a few people for feedback and make improvements before doing anything at larger scale.

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                            Hi! Thanks for the suggestion. We did consider selling 3D printed frames instead of injection molding, but your idea of cnc’d wood is new to us. I’m not sure if it’s applicable for our design, but it should be worth some time to find out. If this funding (unfortunately) fails, we’re unlikely to have a second run any time soon, because we will be practically bankrupt, but the second challenge ever happens, your suggestion might come truly useful…

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                            Control + alt + meta + shift?

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                              Hi. Thanks for showing interest and taking time to have a look. Good question. In the default layout, that can be done with two thumbs. One thumb to the bottom left, and the other to the top right would do the trick. Then you can use the other fingers to press some other key. But of course, you can completely redesign how each input point works, so for example if there is a frequent need to press control+alt+meta+shift you could allocate a dedicated key for it.

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                                Oh, both thumbs have the same cluster? Makes sense.

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                              A longer typing demonstration has been posted, although I had hoped it would also show the use of the meta keys and the trackball.

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                                It seems like pressing the upper row of keys would be challenging since you’d be stretching your fingers straight out. Does it work differently in practice than I’m visualizing?

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                                  Hi! Maker here. Thanks for the good question, we’d like to add this one to the list of FAQs we’re making now.

                                  Key reachability has been one of our primary concerns, so we’ve tested the prototype with someone with a hand that is probably smaller than most adults (middle finger length 7.5cm from the metacarpophalangeal joint to the fingertip), to confirm that all keys are really reachable from the default position. The answer is yes.

                                  But it also works with people with bigger hands. The trick is that you can adjust your placement on the “hand rest” to set the starting point of your fingers. So, the recommended usage is, you first adjust the position to make sure the fingers can reach the furthermost keys, and place the hand firmly on the hand rest. Then you can curl the fingers to reach all closer keys.

                                  If you have any other questions, please never hesitate to ask. Thank you. :)

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                                    I watched the new demo video and I think I see more clearly what you’re describing. It does look like you’re able to reach without moving your whole hand or stretching your fingers unnaturally. Will the furthest rows decrease in actuation force compared to the closest rows?

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                                      Oh… That’s a quite interesting idea. We haven’t tried it that way. The prototype uses Cherry MX blue switch for all keys. So far I haven’t felt uncomfortable to press the furthest keys (with our current default layout, they are mouse buttons). But perhaps different switches for the furthest buttons will improve the usability. I will certainly consider this. Thanks!

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                                  I am curious how the keyboards are connected to the computer.

                                  I’ve been wanting to build a keyboard exactly like this where each half is a Bluetooth device, so I can rest my hands away from the desk.

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                                    Reminiscent of the Maltron Keyboard https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltron