This is such a promising system, but it requires that banks to try out and adopt the system for it to be viable. So far from what I’ve heard, it is mostly student-run university snack kiosks that use it.
I realize this is an incredibly tall order, but does anyone know if there have even been experiments where FLOSS advocates run their own credit union in order to break new ground on stuff like this?
I’ve also heard that these small scale deployments are something the Taler org wants make easier to do, so maybe there will be more of them in the future
Crypto while neat will never see full-hearted support from the likes of say the EU. The value add of Taler is that one can mint essentially an IOU, send it anonomysly, and then when the recipient wants to claim it then their bank nor my bank will have no way of knowing who at my bank sent the money / created the IOU. You can also tag the money with how it may be spent, should you want bar your child from buying smut for example. Then there is lots of double-spending protection and such.
Taler is really cool tech, and IMHO much more practical than blockchain-based approaches, but I have some objections to calling it true digital cash. From the FAQ page:
Can I send money to my friends with Taler?
Taler supports push and pull payments between wallets (also known as peer-to-peer payments). While the payment appears to be directly between wallets, technically the operation is intermediated by the payment service provider which will typically be legally required to identify the recipient of the funds before allowing the transaction to complete.
Taler allows central banks to be able to impose withdrawal limits to protect against bank runs or impose negative interest rates to disincentivize hoarding.
The fact that the server code is Free Software is no comfort here.
The general idea (which seems reasonable at first glance) is actually to try and provide a compromise (this is the T for “Taxable” in the TALER name). Provide privacy for the consumer (the server doesn’t know who it issued coins to when a merchant redeems them for fiat) but transparency of merchant income (merchants have to redeem coins for fiat). That side of it is pretty neat, but they seem a bit keen to advertise support for policies that aren’t actually good for the little guy.
EDIT: To clarify: I think Taler is interesting, and I think it’s great that we see alternatives to blockchain in the digital payments space, as well as some serious thought being given to the privacy tradeoffs. But the package as a whole must be considered carefully.
This is such a promising system, but it requires that banks to try out and adopt the system for it to be viable. So far from what I’ve heard, it is mostly student-run university snack kiosks that use it.
I realize this is an incredibly tall order, but does anyone know if there have even been experiments where FLOSS advocates run their own credit union in order to break new ground on stuff like this?
I didn’t know it was deployed anywhere yet. Any idea which universities?
The only one I’m aware of is Bern University of Applied Sciences which at least had one https://www.bfh.ch/en/research/reference-projects/gnu-taler-snackautomat/
I’ve also heard that these small scale deployments are something the Taler org wants make easier to do, so maybe there will be more of them in the future
[Comment removed by moderator pushcx: Throwaway flamebait about off-topic stuff. ]
Crypto while neat will never see full-hearted support from the likes of say the EU. The value add of Taler is that one can mint essentially an IOU, send it anonomysly, and then when the recipient wants to claim it then their bank nor my bank will have no way of knowing who at my bank sent the money / created the IOU. You can also tag the money with how it may be spent, should you want bar your child from buying smut for example. Then there is lots of double-spending protection and such.
Taler is really cool tech, and IMHO much more practical than blockchain-based approaches, but I have some objections to calling it true digital cash. From the FAQ page:
Not great. And from the Taler Systems’ page on Central Bank Digital Currencies at https://taler-systems.com/en/digital-currency.html :
The fact that the server code is Free Software is no comfort here.
Thanks for linking their CBDC page :)
So, their ecash page boasts about it being a
And their CBDC page says they offer:
Those two seem in conflict. My income and spending can’t be both private and transparent at the same time. Which one of the above is a lie?
I think this is just weasel wording meaning “private to the plebs, transparent to our overlords.”
The general idea (which seems reasonable at first glance) is actually to try and provide a compromise (this is the
Tfor “Taxable” in theTALERname). Provide privacy for the consumer (the server doesn’t know who it issued coins to when a merchant redeems them for fiat) but transparency of merchant income (merchants have to redeem coins for fiat). That side of it is pretty neat, but they seem a bit keen to advertise support for policies that aren’t actually good for the little guy.EDIT: To clarify: I think Taler is interesting, and I think it’s great that we see alternatives to blockchain in the digital payments space, as well as some serious thought being given to the privacy tradeoffs. But the package as a whole must be considered carefully.