1. 40
  1.  

  2. 21

    TL;DR

    I am delighted and honored to say that we have one candidate that unambiguously meets our institutional and operational needs: we have decided to replace IRC with Riot/Matrix, hosted by Modular.IM.

    I’m going to miss all the column-miles written to decry the inevitable choice of closed-source solutions like Slack or Discord.

    1. 20

      Happy to say that I was a little involved in this by pointing matrix.org to their lack of moderation feature docs and reviewing theirs: https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/1124029795585675268. I can also happily say now that those docs are top of the class, even for commercial tools, now. (similar for Zulip, by the way)

      I also find it unsurprising that they were chosen. The moment they got wind of this, some higher-up members from matrix stuck around the evaluation channels (#synchronicity) and were very appreciative of the problems that Mozilla had with IRC. They made sure that they addressed every point, filled all gaps and were around for questions. Active work. This is well deserved!

      All the while where there was mostly an ample amount of bile by IRC folk that Mozilla “just doesn’t get it” or promise for future features, which also isn’t really helping your cause.

      1. 11
        1. 4

          “Mattermost… Lacks ability to mute/ignore an individual user.”

          Didn’t see that coming. That’s worth a pull request.

          1. 16

            Don’t expect it getting fixed (https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server/issues/6320) in this new open-core world!

            1. 8

              Wow. I was thinking of setting up a mattermost instance for my org, but reading this thread makes me think twice. This is such an anti-user stance that I don’t want to use the product.

              It’s their product so they can do what they wish, but it’s unlike my open source experiences. It’s not a healthy open source project as the decisions are made by a company for their own reasons rather than the project.

              1. 6

                Uh, what? It’s a paid feature? The one that open communities need the most?

                1. 4

                  Seems community experience matters least to mattermost.

            2. 7

              Not self-hosting is a mistake and helps centralization.

              1. 20

                on the other hand, their hoster is (afaict) the main developer of matrix itself. so this means a stable amount of money will be available for matrix development.

                1. 9

                  …and increases expenses and operational overhead. I have a lot of qualms with Matrix (particularly how much overhead it has), but this at least means they have the choice to self-host later, should they choose.

                  1. 6

                    Considering the many other mistakes they were seriously considering making which would have been dramatically more harmful, this seems like an overly-critical nitpick, even if it’s technically true.

                    1. 5

                      Try to use another server (for example riot.privacytools.io) and DNS block vector.im, matrix.org, modular.im and all subdomains. The experience is half broken.

                      1. 9

                        Is this since we landed all the privacy work a few months ago? (cf https://matrix.org/blog/2019/09/27/privacy-improvements-in-synapse-1-4-and-riot-1-4/) There should categorically be NO dependencies on any of those domains or subdomains if you’re selfhosting (unless you use a widget or integration manager hosted there, but then you’re not self-hosting any more).

                        1. 2

                          On riot?

                          I use riot with a self hosted server and the only thing I have to whitelist in umatrix is the domain of my server.

                          1. 1

                            Still better than Discord.

                        2. 1

                          I don’t think this is a problem, since it’s relatively easy for Mozilla as an organization to move to a different matrix hosting provider or start self-hosting if they ever have a problem with the hosting provided by the company developing matrix. This is no more problematic than Mozilla switching from one VPS provider to another for their build infrastructure.

                          1. 0

                            I think you underestimate how bad riot software is.

                        3. 2

                          The protocol looks halfway okay, as far as HTTP goes. Anyone know of any 3rd party server software? A quick search doesn’t turn up anything on the matrix.org site.

                          1. 2

                            There is a list on https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now/ (scroll down to “Servers”), but if you want to run Matrix in production I definitly recommend using Synapse today.

                          2. 2

                            Is there a low-friction way to give Matrix a try? Like a Lobste.rs channel accessible via a web client or something along those lines?

                            1. 7

                              Riot is a web client for Matrix that features user registration! https://riot.im/app

                            2. 1

                              reporting violations of Mozilla’s Community Participation Guidelines

                              It seems like beholding the mote that is in thy brother’s eye is very important nowadays :-/