Really, nobody making a joke about penetration testing yet?
Or whether or not this is NP-hard?
No Wang-tilling when the devices are interconnected?
Friendly reminder: I certainly hope nobody (else) is going to make that kind of remark. I’ve had feedback privately (though not recently) that people are, in fact, upset about this sort of humor being here. I don’t think genital jokes in a tech forum fall into the category of productive debate where it’s better to have conflict in the open than hidden; I think they have no important benefit.
I found the article itself pretty interesting, fwiw. I’m sure there are on-topic things to say about it.
Friendly reminder: I certainly hope nobody (else) is going to make that kind of remark. I’ve had feedback privately (though not recently) that people are, in fact, upset about this sort of humor being here.
This is really sad to me. Look, I hate sexism and racism and misogyny far more than I hate political correctness, but I’m not a fan of PC either. Both extremes are bad and, let’s be honest, crude jokes are fun and enjoyable by men and women both. I would never direct such jokes at a specific person, and I’d avoid making such jokes in the physical presence of someone who clearly didn’t want to hear them, but trying to purge the entire Internet of crude humor that 95% of people enjoy seems a bit… extreme. As far as I’m concerned, @angersock’s puns were pretty wholesome.
Ninety-five percent of people find these jokes to be fun because, let’s be honest, dildos can be hilarious. Especially the extreme kinds (impractical size, glow in the dark, exaggerated vasculature) that no one could actually use. Someone buys that as a show-piece. Who? What kind of person thinks, “I know that that thing’s completely useless for private use, but I want it on the coffee table”? I think it would be fun to meet that person. I don’t think there are enough people like that in the world.
trying to purge the entire Internet of crude humor that 95% of people enjoy seems a bit… extreme.
Is there really such a dearth of places on the internet you can go to write or read genital-related jokes that Irene disallowing them on Lobsters constitutes a “purge”?
I think you can also say we take pride in “effortposts” over “shitposts.” We don’t post jokes and such, but when we do, they have effort put into them.
And five percent of people never come back to lobste.rs because they see this as a sign that it’s the same sort of exclusionary culture as everywhere else in the tech industry.
That’s not a real number, I’m being rhetorical. It’s impossible to know the real number. We should always ask “would this be okay if it were the first thing anybody ever saw about the site?”
I obviously can’t put myself in everyone’s head at once, but I think it’s worth noting that the exclusionary culture of the tech industry isn’t about “NP-Hard” jokes. It’s about much worse behaviors than that. I have a friend who was harassed out of a company and her experiences were way worse than overhearing a few puns that may have been in poor taste. The things that were said to and about her were absolutely unbelievable.
The exclusionary culture is absolutely real and it’s disgusting. I know women who’ve been asked for sexual favors by their bosses, people who’ve been harassed over their sexual orientation, and a lot more that I don’t want to talk about (or can’t). I worked at a company for ~3 months where sexual harassment was ingrained in the culture from the (married) CEO to the grunts. It made me sick. We’re both on the same side, I think: this stuff is revolting and needs to stop.
I don’t put “NP-Hard” jokes in remotely the same category.
One of the reasons why I dislike PC is that it has a “Boy Who Cried Wolf” dynamic behind it. If people think “sexual harassment” is a dongle joke, they’re not as likely to take real sexual harassment (which is much more severe, and completely unacceptable) seriously. PC divides people.
We should always ask “would this be okay if it were the first thing anybody ever saw about the site?”
That’s an excellent point. I think that I, personally, ought to treat many of the things that I say with that sort of regard. I don’t have an intelligent answer, and I’m not sure I’m equipped to make that judgment call. I, personally, found @angersock’s puns to be inoffensive and humorous.
I appreciate your thoughtful response, and I agree that we are fundamentally on the same side. I think what we have a disagreement on is the effect words can have. It’s not so much the specifics of the jokes - certainly, it’s not news to anyone that genitals exist - as the cultural context.
To your suggestion that this doesn’t have a practical detriment, all I can really say is that that doesn’t match my experience. If there were sufficient justice in the world, I suppose it’s true that nobody would have a reason to be scared of a place where sexual humor is the norm. There really just isn’t.
I think, in this case, I agree with two points posed above
@michael I don’t think of it as being PC. Potty humor on this site should be frowned upon for the same reason that we avoid “First Post” like things. It’s noise, and all it takes is a little bit of self restraint to not post such things and add that noise.
Actual humor, that has taken a bit of effort to craft, such as the example given earlier is most welcome. We are grown up, but I don’t want to be stuffy! For example, We have tons of satire articles posted here. Some are even funny.
I think that’s a fair point–I do have difficulty taking a Vice Motherboard article seriously, since they usually aren’t super in-depth.
As penance, here’s an article with more technical content to engage with. If people want to post articles about sex toy hacking that have more meat and that go a little deeper, I’m all for knocking off the crude jokes.
For what it’s worth: I don’t mind these jokes, but I wouldn’t want comments composed entirely and solely of such jokes either. Your second comment had content AND a pun, which is much more interesting!
have more meat and that go a little deeper
I see what you did there, and I’m cackling.
The difficult truth to accept is that porn played a big role in the growth of the Internet, and it still takes up an enormous portion of bandwidth that flows through the Internet today.
The porn/sex industry are always going to try and find ways to make money with existing trends. One example is Pornhub having “VR friendly” videos, but the details are left to the reader as it’s inappropriate for this website.
These are very different to me and the article isn’t about porn at all. Sex isn’t porn. There is much misery in porn as it involves the exploitation of people, and is almost always horribly degrading to women.
The article is just about sex toys and sex toys for women at that. A sex toy that can spy on its users is also a very different situation than the run-of-the-mill tracking that websites all do, and I would say that the trends in web browser tracking are initiated more by the general ad industry than the porn industry.
Sex isn’t porn. There is much misery in porn as it involves the exploitation of people, and is almost always horribly degrading to women.
Pornography is one of those topics that, for me, brings a divergence between my intellectual view of the concept and my personal view of what actually exists in the world.
Intellectually, I have no problem with pornography. It’s not inherently evil. It’s probably good for the world that normal, well-adjusted people can see naked bodies of the gender(s) and type(s) that they’re attracted to at any time. When I was a kid, “dirty magazines” meant Playboy, which is pretty wholesome as far as the genre goes. A naked female body isn’t going to ruin a developing mind. Some of the stuff on the Internet, though… is just sickening.
The reality of pornography and prostitution are often disgusting. As you’re probably well aware, porn “stars” are treated horribly and often addicted to drugs to compensate for the fact that their work is physically painful and often psychologically degrading. The industry seems to be addicted to envelope-pushing, and it’s clear to me that the distinction between anti-porn (“shock” images used to disgust people and in pranks, that no sane person would find arousing) and regular porn is blurring. The social ramifications, but also the things that this says about the human mind, are pretty scary.
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I know that saying that there could be any problem with porn is a very difficult argument to make in tech nerd circles. People on the internet will defend porn to the death, particularly males. Also, you’re making a not-all-men style of rhetoric. Not all Germans were Nazis during WW2 either. That is entirely besides the point.
Sure, maybe some people really love making porn. The majority of the porn industry, though, is atrocious. I would cite documentary evidence of this misery, but I do not want to be told how wrong that evidence is. I’ve already gotten into an extended flamewar this week on Lobsters. Suffice it to say that if you are open to the idea of there being irredeemable problems in porn, you can easily convince yourself of this by looking for them.
The majority of the porn industry, though, is atrocious.
I had been watching the sexfactor.com (reality show with future porn-stars, NSFW!) and they all seem like a nice people.
(Last thing I say about this today, I swear. Ban me from lobsters if I continue.)
I don’t think performers (or performees) in porn aren’t nice people. I think the people putting them in porn are generally not nice people. There’s also many women to whom porn initially appears attractive until they actually try it. Hot Girls Wanted is a recent documentary of this trend in so-called “amateur” porn. Young women are lured with promises of money and a better life only to be quickly used and discarded by the porn industry.
There’s also a conflict of interest because women in porn have a vested interest in appearing happy to be doing what they’re doing. Their source of income depends on this. There is also sometimes outright coercion to make people in porn and prostitution say they like it. Jenna Jameson said that she would never again spread her legs for this industry, and later when she needed money for her children came back to porn “for the fans”.
And again, even if some people in porn really are truly and completely happy, this doesn’t negate the misery of others.
Thank you for a well-articulated expansion on your prior claim.
This is a touchy enough topic to have useful discourse about without being uncivil. If you can’t post something about technology on porn, at least make comments that are polite and contribute something to the discussion.