Well, MVS z/OS M-O-U-S-E does have an unbroken lineage (and backwards compatibility) to the 1960s, so it’s living history. It’s also cloistered, so it doesn’t influence outside design and outside design doesn’t influence it. Classic IBM, in other words.
For some definitions of “everywhere”. They’re not in the cloud-startup-macbook-webdev-mobile world, which is where I’d expect most lobsters/hn/reddit/etc. users to be.
Off topic, but has there ever been a poll about this? I’m not a web or mobile developer, but they do seem to be the majority on most tech discussion sites. Maybe not so much on Lobsters but definitely on HN.
Another youngster who equates “intuitive” with “like Unix” (I assume, since no other definition is given). :)
She is shocked to find that “a data set is a file”, despite the term “data set” being the older one. When called on this in the comments, she says “the term “data set” refers to a broad collecting of constructs that have wildly different behavior and purposes” — well, the “Unix philosophy” is literally “everything is a file”, and it’s hard to find a broader collection of constructs than that!
Surprise, computer systems still exist that aren’t Unix and don’t share any heritage with it. You know what? They all used to be like that.
Another youngster who equates “intuitive” with “like Unix” (I assume, since no other definition is given). :)
Like Unix, which is like VMS, which is like MS-DOS, which is like Windows except to the extent Windows has moved away from MS-DOS and become more like either VMS or Unix. MS-DOS itself is CP/M with more Unix grafted onto it, which you can see if you try to name a file CON.
My point is, intuitive means familiar, and Unix is what’s familiar outside of a few insular realms. Acting all surprised at this is odd, at this point.
Surprise, computer systems still exist that aren’t Unix and don’t share any heritage with it. You know what? They all used to be like that.
Quiet, or you’ll awaken the people who know OSes which don’t share any heritage with CTSS! ;)
The systems that exist in the Serious IBM Business world are not very accessible to outsiders. Unix is everywhere, Unix has won, of course “like Unix” is intuitive for most of us.
Also, seriously, touch some.file is objectively easier than filling out a form with 16 (sixteen!) fields :D
Windows, Mac OS X, UNIX, iOS, and Android. Those collectively won. The intuitive feel will connect to one or more of them depending on audience background.
Look at the man page of find and then talk to me about intuitive. :)
Oh, mentioning the form reminds me of another thing that bugged me — not realizing a 327x terminal is page-based, not character stream based. You fill out forms on the screen and submit the whole page at once. So of course you have to type the command in the right place. Just like in a web browser, which I’m guessing is “intuitive” now, but sure wasn’t in, e.g., 1994.
I laughed when I saw this as historical. I was working on a Z Series security project last year. They’re everywhere.
Well, MVS z/OS M-O-U-S-E does have an unbroken lineage (and backwards compatibility) to the 1960s, so it’s living history. It’s also cloistered, so it doesn’t influence outside design and outside design doesn’t influence it. Classic IBM, in other words.
For some definitions of “everywhere”. They’re not in the cloud-startup-macbook-webdev-mobile world, which is where I’d expect most lobsters/hn/reddit/etc. users to be.
Off topic, but has there ever been a poll about this? I’m not a web or mobile developer, but they do seem to be the majority on most tech discussion sites. Maybe not so much on Lobsters but definitely on HN.
Another youngster who equates “intuitive” with “like Unix” (I assume, since no other definition is given). :)
She is shocked to find that “a data set is a file”, despite the term “data set” being the older one. When called on this in the comments, she says “the term “data set” refers to a broad collecting of constructs that have wildly different behavior and purposes” — well, the “Unix philosophy” is literally “everything is a file”, and it’s hard to find a broader collection of constructs than that!
Surprise, computer systems still exist that aren’t Unix and don’t share any heritage with it. You know what? They all used to be like that.
Like Unix, which is like VMS, which is like MS-DOS, which is like Windows except to the extent Windows has moved away from MS-DOS and become more like either VMS or Unix. MS-DOS itself is CP/M with more Unix grafted onto it, which you can see if you try to name a file CON.
My point is, intuitive means familiar, and Unix is what’s familiar outside of a few insular realms. Acting all surprised at this is odd, at this point.
Quiet, or you’ll awaken the people who know OSes which don’t share any heritage with CTSS! ;)
The systems that exist in the Serious IBM Business world are not very accessible to outsiders. Unix is everywhere, Unix has won, of course “like Unix” is intuitive for most of us.
Also, seriously,
touch some.fileis objectively easier than filling out a form with 16 (sixteen!) fields :DWindows, Mac OS X, UNIX, iOS, and Android. Those collectively won. The intuitive feel will connect to one or more of them depending on audience background.
Look at the man page of find and then talk to me about intuitive. :)
Oh, mentioning the form reminds me of another thing that bugged me — not realizing a 327x terminal is page-based, not character stream based. You fill out forms on the screen and submit the whole page at once. So of course you have to type the command in the right place. Just like in a web browser, which I’m guessing is “intuitive” now, but sure wasn’t in, e.g., 1994.