I have mixed feelings about this. No longer mixed because of how yeah, this just seems very disrespectful.
Mostly, it can be summed up as “can you just not?”
This project is famous because of why it came to be, and who created it. It was the result of Terry’s mental illness which was also the unfortunate cause of his death. Trying to piggyback on it feels incredibly disingenuous and almost disrespectful, especially given the circumstances around its creation.
Let it rest with Terry.
EDIT: I completely forgot about that description - “A TempleOS distro for heretics” - this just sounds incredibly disrespectful.
Trying to piggyback on it feels incredibly disingenuous and almost disrespectful, especially given the circumstances around its creation.
Let it rest with Terry.
I think that on contrary, we should use, study and think about the lessons Terry gave us in form of the Temple OS. There is nothing disrespectful in trying to build on his legacy.
Gotta agree here as well. I can appreciate that great care should be taken to give proper respect to the nature of his illness and personal circumstances but that said I think his work has a LOT of interesting technical details that could be studied and might inspire others.
So in your opinion, Terry’s work should just be left to wither and die, out of respect for him. Would this be true if he hadn’t been mentally ill? Would it be true if he hadn’t died?
You assume the author of Shrine has forked TempleOS to acquire fame. What if he didn’t?
Sincere question here - should the entire work product of someone who became mentally ill and whose work might potentially contain some aspects which were a product of delusions they experienced as a result be excluded from future scholarship out of respect?
(The answer may very well be yes - I’m just trying to understand the point you’re making.)
I’m confused here that this is upvoted so high. Why is it disrespectful? It’s public domain fork of a public domain project.
Why do people need to be so uptight about everything?
I’m absolutely in favor of studying TempleOS, it was clearly meant for that. Just, yes, this particular approach does seem intentionally disrespectful. It’s a matter of opinion; I certainly won’t try to stop them from doing that, but that’s my opinion.
Whether or not I agree with your position, bringing another dumpster fire in here is counterproductive. If you have an issue, take it up with the other mods.
Google obviously gets zero input on Lobsters moderation decisions. If you think anything else is the case, please support it with evidence instead of ad hominem insinuation. Mods sending PMs to get more context about why users did something is us being thorough and deliberate; this is neither fascism nor fascizm.
And I guess to drive that first sentence home: I learned a few minutes about @Irene leaving Google back in September and have doffed their “Google Employee” hat as of that date.
The author of the linked repository is using a literal image of a Nazi SS soldier saying “perfect” as his avatar. It‘s not exactly subtle, but since the avatar doesn’t show on mobile, there was some confusion at the time. While I’m sure the author would claim the avatar is ironic, the Rule of Goats generally applies to this kind of thing.
The author of the linked repository is using a literal image of a Nazi SS soldier saying “perfect” as his avatar.
.. how does this make him Nazi? I mean it’s obviously from the comics and author doesn’t appear to be promoting Nazism anywhere. And the image is literally meme. Jumping to conclusions and deleting references to valid project of the fork of operating system because maintainer has a meme as an avatar .. I mean do you realize that this is literally oppression? Not just toward the unfortunate maintainer, who may be a dick, but also toward people who suggested that story and wanted to have a discussion about it. It is literally “i don’t like the picture somewhere on the page you linked” situation.
Maybe people should learn that using imagery that includes Nazi symbolism makes some people uncomfortable and may lead to their work having less exposure than they’d prefer.
Well, maybe people should stop being offended so easily. My point is that even if I agreed (which I don’t at all) with your opinion, then in this case, majkinetor was still oppressed by mods for no good reason. He is not Nazi. He has nothing to do with Nazis. He only wanted to have discussion about interesting OS project. And mods came and deleted his attempt because someone else has a avatar with a Nazi soldier.
Well, maybe people should stop being offended so easily.
Most of us have moved on. The only ones offended are those that are very unhappy that this site does not accept links that are associated with Nazi imagery.
Most of us have moved on. The only ones offended are those that are very unhappy that this site does not accept links that are associated with Nazi imagery.
No, I feel very unhappy about general approach mods here taken, because:
I think that it is an interesting project.
I think that this is unjust.
Linked GitHub repo does not support Nazism. People there do not support Nazism. People here also don’t support Nazism. Only issue is that one person there uses icon of German soldier, that is used as a meme (just google it). And mods are suppressing discussion about the project, that is are oppressing us for no good reason. You are literally being unfair to us, because someone somewhere else used a avatar that yo udon’t like. and I think that this is not ok.
Meta note: I’m not a mod. My views on the direction of this site are my own, even if I am active in discussing it on IRC and elsewhere.
This is not the only site on the internet. Feel free to promote the repo on your own blog, on social media, on other sites etc. etc. There are many topics I am interested in, and maybe I’m curious to what people here think of them, but I will not post them here because they are off-topic.
Only issue is that one person there uses icon of German soldier, that is used as a meme (just google it).
Why anyone would prefer to associate themselves visually with a regime that murdered millions of its own citizens and was the prime mover in a global conflict that killed many millions more is beyond me.
Why anyone would prefer to associate themselves visually with a regime that murdered millions of its own citizens and was the prime mover in a global conflict that killed many millions more is beyond me.
You know what’s most funny about that? Nazis occupied my (and Bystroushaak’s) country. Czechoslovakia suffered terrible damages. We lost some territories, many people got murdered or tortured for not having the right genetical origin, or for demonstrating resistance. When I was a child, my grandparents told me stories about those times. One of the most popular current Czech TV hosts, Jan Kraus, was on many occasions talking about what his Jewish father (who was lucky enough to survive) experienced in the concentration camp.
Should Hitler have succeeded with his master plan, my entire nation would be, at very best, his servants – if we survived at all.
And yet, somehow, I don’t take that avatar so seriously. I doubt I’d even notice. There’s a long way between using “a not politically correct avatar” and actual promotion of nazism. In fact, I’m tempted to start putting ostracative resistance to all of that political correctness, diversity etc. Nazism is bad, harassing women is bad, discriminating anyone is bad (that applies to positive discrimination too), but freedom of speech is incredibly important and today, we’re losing it. I very much agree with Jordan Petersson’s statement that the way SJWs approach stuff in many ways resembles what Nazis did.
Think of it this way: Not everyone who puts some improper image in an avatar is an extermist. But when public starts overreacting over it, it increases the chance he’ll actually become an extremist. Maybe because of the reverse psychology, maybe because extremists are the only people willing to talk to him.
Yes, I understand this, yet this is a community driven site. You are basically telling me that I and OP is not part of the community, and we should fuck off to create my own.
Why anyone would prefer to associate themselves visually with a regime that murdered millions of its own citizens and was the prime mover in a global conflict that killed many millions more is beyond me.
Well, I can imagine a lot of reasons (recession humor for one), but I agree in that I think that Nazism and Nazi ideology was horrible, and we should not tolerate people with such ideology. At the same time, I strongly insist that this is not the case, that mod’s reaction was out of exaggerated and not uncalled-for.
You are basically telling me that I and OP is not part of the community, and we should fuck off to create my own.
I am doing no such thing. I am just suggesting that instead of wasting time and energy railing about one mod decision, you can use that time and energy to spread information about the repo in question in a more productive way. Embrace the positive!
I strongly insist that this is not the case, that mod’s reaction was out of exaggerated and not uncalled-for
Have you DM’d the mod team and raised these concerns? I’m sure it would be more productive than continuing in a thread that’s hidden in any case (as the grandparent comment was flagged below visibilty, and since deleted).
I am doing no such thing. I am just suggesting that instead of wasting time and energy railing about one mod decision, you can use that time and energy to spread information about the repo in question in a more productive way. Embrace the positive!
Ok, I agree. I apologize if I used too strong vocabulary.
Have you DM’d the mod team and raised these concerns? I’m sure it would be more productive than continuing in a thread that’s hidden in any case (as the grandparent comment was flagged below visibilty, and since deleted).
I have sent DM to the OP and asked for clarification. I don’t really want to fight with mods.
.. how does this make him Nazi? I mean it’s obviously from the comics and author doesn’t appear to be promoting Nazism anywhere. And the image is literally meme.
I mentioned the Rule of Goats. I’m inferring you don’t know what that is.
I mean do you realize that this is literally oppression?
Getting your post deleted from a messaging board is not oppression. You need to read the news a bit more.
I mentioned the Rule of Goats. I’m inferring you don’t know what that is.
I don’t really care. And I find this annoying and offending. He did not fucked any goats, not even supported Nazis, or whatever. He wanted to have discussion about fork of an operating system.
Getting your post deleted from a messaging board is not oppression. You need to read the news a bit more.
Oh, ok. So now lets go into definition of an opression:
unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power
something that oppresses especially in being an unjust or excessive exercise of power
This is exactly that. Unjust and excessive use of power; “You want to have an discussion about an operating system? Well, fuck you, I don’t like a picture on the page you linked.”
I have
mixedfeelings about this. No longer mixed because of how yeah, this just seems very disrespectful.Mostly, it can be summed up as “can you just not?”
This project is famous because of why it came to be, and who created it. It was the result of Terry’s mental illness which was also the unfortunate cause of his death. Trying to piggyback on it feels incredibly disingenuous and almost disrespectful, especially given the circumstances around its creation.
Let it rest with Terry.
EDIT: I completely forgot about that description - “A TempleOS distro for heretics” - this just sounds incredibly disrespectful.
I think that on contrary, we should use, study and think about the lessons Terry gave us in form of the Temple OS. There is nothing disrespectful in trying to build on his legacy.
I agree - Terry didn’t take his software with him to the grave - he shared it with the world and made it public domain.
Gotta agree here as well. I can appreciate that great care should be taken to give proper respect to the nature of his illness and personal circumstances but that said I think his work has a LOT of interesting technical details that could be studied and might inspire others.
So in your opinion, Terry’s work should just be left to wither and die, out of respect for him. Would this be true if he hadn’t been mentally ill? Would it be true if he hadn’t died?
You assume the author of Shrine has forked TempleOS to acquire fame. What if he didn’t?
It was released before Terry’s passing
That doesn’t change much.
Sincere question here - should the entire work product of someone who became mentally ill and whose work might potentially contain some aspects which were a product of delusions they experienced as a result be excluded from future scholarship out of respect?
(The answer may very well be yes - I’m just trying to understand the point you’re making.)
I’m confused here that this is upvoted so high. Why is it disrespectful? It’s public domain fork of a public domain project. Why do people need to be so uptight about everything?
I’m absolutely in favor of studying TempleOS, it was clearly meant for that. Just, yes, this particular approach does seem intentionally disrespectful. It’s a matter of opinion; I certainly won’t try to stop them from doing that, but that’s my opinion.
I think it is a result of Terry’s genius and mental illness. And projects like this that make it easier to utilize and explore Terry’s great work.
[Comment removed by author]
Pretty cool that someone’s picking up the work. I wonder if it will stay small, or bloat up eventually. :-)
[Comment removed by author]
Whether or not I agree with your position, bringing another dumpster fire in here is counterproductive. If you have an issue, take it up with the other mods.
Yeah, sorry about that, I agree, it was a “necessary evil”.
https://github.com/xmm15/ZenithOS
[Comment removed by author]
Google obviously gets zero input on Lobsters moderation decisions. If you think anything else is the case, please support it with evidence instead of ad hominem insinuation. Mods sending PMs to get more context about why users did something is us being thorough and deliberate; this is neither fascism nor fascizm.
And I guess to drive that first sentence home: I learned a few minutes about @Irene leaving Google back in September and have doffed their “Google Employee” hat as of that date.
My apologies to everyone for not getting around to that faster. I’ve been accused of being a corporate shill before, but not on here.
This is also not the place for whining about mod decisions or insulting mods for not liking Nazis, so…
Whats Nazi about that? I mean I don’t see any references.
The author of the linked repository is using a literal image of a Nazi SS soldier saying “perfect” as his avatar. It‘s not exactly subtle, but since the avatar doesn’t show on mobile, there was some confusion at the time. While I’m sure the author would claim the avatar is ironic, the Rule of Goats generally applies to this kind of thing.
.. how does this make him Nazi? I mean it’s obviously from the comics and author doesn’t appear to be promoting Nazism anywhere. And the image is literally meme. Jumping to conclusions and deleting references to valid project of the fork of operating system because maintainer has a meme as an avatar .. I mean do you realize that this is literally oppression? Not just toward the unfortunate maintainer, who may be a dick, but also toward people who suggested that story and wanted to have a discussion about it. It is literally “i don’t like the picture somewhere on the page you linked” situation.
Maybe people should learn that using imagery that includes Nazi symbolism makes some people uncomfortable and may lead to their work having less exposure than they’d prefer.
Well, maybe people should stop being offended so easily. My point is that even if I agreed (which I don’t at all) with your opinion, then in this case, majkinetor was still oppressed by mods for no good reason. He is not Nazi. He has nothing to do with Nazis. He only wanted to have discussion about interesting OS project. And mods came and deleted his attempt because someone else has a avatar with a Nazi soldier.
Most of us have moved on. The only ones offended are those that are very unhappy that this site does not accept links that are associated with Nazi imagery.
This sounds like a good band name, actually.
No, I feel very unhappy about general approach mods here taken, because:
Linked GitHub repo does not support Nazism. People there do not support Nazism. People here also don’t support Nazism. Only issue is that one person there uses icon of German soldier, that is used as a meme (just google it). And mods are suppressing discussion about the project, that is are oppressing us for no good reason. You are literally being unfair to us, because someone somewhere else used a avatar that yo udon’t like. and I think that this is not ok.
Meta note: I’m not a mod. My views on the direction of this site are my own, even if I am active in discussing it on IRC and elsewhere.
This is not the only site on the internet. Feel free to promote the repo on your own blog, on social media, on other sites etc. etc. There are many topics I am interested in, and maybe I’m curious to what people here think of them, but I will not post them here because they are off-topic.
Why anyone would prefer to associate themselves visually with a regime that murdered millions of its own citizens and was the prime mover in a global conflict that killed many millions more is beyond me.
You know what’s most funny about that? Nazis occupied my (and Bystroushaak’s) country. Czechoslovakia suffered terrible damages. We lost some territories, many people got murdered or tortured for not having the right genetical origin, or for demonstrating resistance. When I was a child, my grandparents told me stories about those times. One of the most popular current Czech TV hosts, Jan Kraus, was on many occasions talking about what his Jewish father (who was lucky enough to survive) experienced in the concentration camp.
Should Hitler have succeeded with his master plan, my entire nation would be, at very best, his servants – if we survived at all.
And yet, somehow, I don’t take that avatar so seriously. I doubt I’d even notice. There’s a long way between using “a not politically correct avatar” and actual promotion of nazism. In fact, I’m tempted to start putting ostracative resistance to all of that political correctness, diversity etc. Nazism is bad, harassing women is bad, discriminating anyone is bad (that applies to positive discrimination too), but freedom of speech is incredibly important and today, we’re losing it. I very much agree with Jordan Petersson’s statement that the way SJWs approach stuff in many ways resembles what Nazis did.
Think of it this way: Not everyone who puts some improper image in an avatar is an extermist. But when public starts overreacting over it, it increases the chance he’ll actually become an extremist. Maybe because of the reverse psychology, maybe because extremists are the only people willing to talk to him.
Yes, I understand this, yet this is a community driven site. You are basically telling me that I and OP is not part of the community, and we should fuck off to create my own.
Well, I can imagine a lot of reasons (recession humor for one), but I agree in that I think that Nazism and Nazi ideology was horrible, and we should not tolerate people with such ideology. At the same time, I strongly insist that this is not the case, that mod’s reaction was out of exaggerated and not uncalled-for.
I am doing no such thing. I am just suggesting that instead of wasting time and energy railing about one mod decision, you can use that time and energy to spread information about the repo in question in a more productive way. Embrace the positive!
Have you DM’d the mod team and raised these concerns? I’m sure it would be more productive than continuing in a thread that’s hidden in any case (as the grandparent comment was flagged below visibilty, and since deleted).
Ok, I agree. I apologize if I used too strong vocabulary.
I have sent DM to the OP and asked for clarification. I don’t really want to fight with mods.
Mods are here to help the community. Respectful communication on both sides is key.
[Comment removed by author]
I mentioned the Rule of Goats. I’m inferring you don’t know what that is.
Getting your post deleted from a messaging board is not oppression. You need to read the news a bit more.
I don’t really care. And I find this annoying and offending. He did not fucked any goats, not even supported Nazis, or whatever. He wanted to have discussion about fork of an operating system.
Oh, ok. So now lets go into definition of an opression:
This is exactly that. Unjust and excessive use of power; “You want to have an discussion about an operating system? Well, fuck you, I don’t like a picture on the page you linked.”