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    Since you were around when C came out, did it have a bad reputation for making things too easy? Like too much abstraction or whatever?

    Those are the last things I see people crap on JavaScript for.

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      Exactly. People who complain about some tech making things “too easy” are Luddites. I hardly ever see that kind of reaction.

      There are a lot of other, valid reasons to complain about JavaScript. Like inconsistent implicit type conversions. Or poor support for modular software. ES6 addresses many of these shortcomings though.

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        Exactly. People who complain about some tech making things “too easy” are Luddites. I hardly ever see that kind of reaction.

        I do see that kind of reaction to Python - that its users aren’t “real programmers”, that it’s just a scripting language, whatever that means.

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        Personally I think most “real programmers” are hatefull to JS due to “the community” surrounding it. For example, I can’t seem to find a JS library these days without the obvious “bower” instructions, or “use this with nodejs”. What happened to a library that is just a single JS file and doesn’t require a specific “build tool” to use. (n.b. I think this is part of the somewhat hateful attitude towards e.g. rubyists with the “there’s a gem for that” mindset).

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          I sure wish there were less tools to handle Javascript packages… The good thing at least is that there is one single tool to handle Node.js packages. Front-end devs are getting there much much slower.

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            For example, I can’t seem to find a JS library these days without the obvious “bower” instructions, or “use this with nodejs”.

            What is so terrible about providing explicit instructions for using a library with the two most popular package managers for JavaScript?

            What happened to a library that is just a single JS file and doesn’t require a specific “build tool” to use

            Libraries which provide instructions for Bower almost always are single JS files. And neither Bower nor npm are “build tools.”

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              Mind you: I’m not trying to offend anyone here. Perhaps “build tools” is the wrong term for the tool.

              To put stuff into context: I’m not a “front-end dev”; I build web apps (using a number of languages). Mostly backend stuff. But sometimes I get to do some JS frontend work; in most cases I end up looking for a .min.js file in a github repo and be done with it.

              I do agree with that bower and npm ARE the most popular managers out there; so I’ll retract any sentiment about them; it’s just not my ‘job’ and I don’t work with them enough to have a real opinion about them.

              Thinking about it a bit more, for me personally the sentiment is probably that I’m a bit “fed up” with the massive amount of libraries/tools/languages required these days to do any “serious” web development. Stuff might actually not be “that bad”, but at first look they - at least to me - seem that way.

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                Mind you: I’m not trying to offend anyone here.

                No offense taken here. :-)

                Thinking about it a bit more, for me personally the sentiment is probably that I’m a bit “fed up” with the massive amount of libraries/tools/languages required these days to do any “serious” web development.

                And that makes perfect sense, given that you’re being forced to work within a language ecosystem that is both pretty fast-paced and outside your specialization.

                From my side, I have a strong visceral reaction to the idea of just downloading a *.min.js file. But that’s because a decent bit of the work I do is in a decade-old web application, where developers kept just downloading another library/jQuery plugin. At this point there are hundreds of different JS libraries downloaded from random places on the internet. Some of which are used on only one page, most are several years out of date, some have been modified since the initial download, and others can’t even be found on the internet anymore. Managing all those dependencies by hand is a nightmare.

                So at this point, anytime I build something new, setting up a package manager is the very first thing I do. Right after that I set up the build system (for similar reasons).

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                  Good points, I’ll spent some time later today to read up on JS package managers (I’ll go with Bower and NPM for now).. They might keep me sane some day ;-)

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          Stupid headline, but an insightful response from his dad.

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            …this could be an interesting case study into computer programmer’s history of hating languages…

            Biggest truth ever said.

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              AnthroCompSciPology?

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                There’s some math to it too: a developer is someone that transforms caffeine, pizza and HATRED into code and flames.