Threads for AmarOk

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    Does anyone use Jami for chatting or calling? What are your experiences?

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      I’ve been trying it out with a couple of crustaceans today, and at least on android, basic two-person chats seem to work well. They don’t have group conversations yet, but work is underway: https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group-conversations/

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        Also, while you can link your account to several devices, messages sent from one device does not show up on the linked devices. Pretty frustrating.

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          It’s on the way, swarm chat give the ability to sync messages across devices (cf the article from munksgaard)

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            Sounds good. Thanks.

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          caution: video conference are done since the beginning. There’s only 1-1 text chat though.

          (I got fooled too and was corrected by a Jami dev: https://lobste.rs/s/gm1xqu/gnu_jami_together_release_enriched_video#c_hxknps)

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          I tried it yesterday, there is no way to explicitly reply to a certain message and afaict the only emoji is the thumbs up emoji but besides that it was surprisingly good, it just worked.

          There was a sync issue at one point and I was like “this sucks I am spoiled” but it turns out the person on the other end had closed the app for a second and since it’s literally p2p it’s not surprising that the messages failed to deliver as instantly as they had been when we were both present.

          Looking forward to group conversations, I think using a DHT for routing, TLS for e2e connections and git for the underlying sync model is brilliant. All of this technology is super battle tested and the result seems to work quite good.

          Edit: feel free to add me, I have the same username here as there.

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          Waiting for immigration paperwork to come in so I can start my new job. In the meantime I’m just vibing and working through my blogpost backlog.

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            immigration paperwork is a pain… And 2020 doesn’t help. Good luck.. I need to do the same cause my visa will expire next year.

            Anyway this week I’m mostly working on group chats in Jami and file transfer. I also continue some personal projects, bots, fix my oven and start to create a christmas gift for my parents.

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              I’m not worried. Things will either work out or they won’t. If they don’t work out, I have fallback plans. Worst case I’ll probably put a note up on my blog and see what happens.

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              A random company idea - make it dead simple for a company to hire a remote worker in a new country, by acting as an intermediary. It seems silly that every company has to figure out 401k and other equivalents for every country they need a presence in. This probably already exists.

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                This is called consulting, right?

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                  I follow someone on twitter that’s running a business sorting this out for people, although the name of them and the business has entirely escaped me.

                  I seem to remember seeing tweets about the legal hoops they’ve had to jump through to sort this out, and they were only available in a couple of countries at the time. USP is basically what you’ve described though, they take care of the paperwork for business and employee so it works out easily for both ends.

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                Too bad that Jami requires to install yet another video chat client. Jitsi works perfectly fine in the browser and all I need to do to invite someone is to share a link (and password).

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                  Jami does have the interesting technical upside of being P2P.

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                    Is this still true?

                    From the linked article:

                    We’ve decided to transform Jami from a simple peer‑to‑peer communication system, into group communication software […]

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                      Yes it’s still P2P. It allowed only 1-1 video calls so far!

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                        Jami dev here Jami is p2p and will be. That’s the goal of Jami.

                        It allowed only 1-1 video calls so far!

                        In fact this is false. There is only 1-1 text communications for now (and like the article says it’s the next step), but video conference was here since a loooong time. But without rendezvous, video layouts, the conference protocol, etc. It was just unusable. There is still a lot of things to do, but a lot of features for this were added.

                        Also we know that Jami lacks for a web client and maybe this will come one day. And indeed you can’t share a link and password, but you can share an app (also for Jitsi on mobile you need the app)

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                          I was astonished by the claimed video bandwidth. How is the decoding performance? How many people can share video realistically till CPU melts for some of them?

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                    Browser based video conferencing is dead. I think that is clear by now? Zoom runs circles around any implementation that uses the browser. Both in performance (CPU usage), number of supported clients and reliability. How often do you need to refresh your browser in Jitsi to make it work again? How often can you not hear at least one participant (and they are not muted!). How often does screen sharing not work in Jitsi? It seems to be unfixable… If after all these years it still barely works with 5 users, makes your CPU fan spin to maximum speed all the time, it is time to give up on it and move on. Not everything is a nail. Put down the JavaScript hammer.

                    What is much better as a basis is a native app that does not require the browser (WebRTC) at all and supports hardware accelerated video encoding/decoding on ALL clients. It seems Jami provides this, or aims to provide this. Excellent! We need more of this “back to basics” design instead of piling on top of the dumpster fire that is browser engines.

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                      Browser based video conferencing is dead. I think that is clear by now?

                      I guess this is your personal opinion and by no means any consensus.

                      How often do you need to refresh your browser in Jitsi to make it work again? How often can you not hear at least one participant (and they are not muted!). How often does screen sharing not work in Jitsi?

                      None of this happend to any video conference I had with Jitsi. I only experienced one broken session where everything was fine after a reconnect, but I think that would’ve been preventable by setting up my own dedicated Jitsi instance.

                      If after all these years it still barely works with 5 users, makes your CPU fan spin to maximum speed all the time, it is time to give up on it and move on. Not everything is a nail. Put down the JavaScript hammer.

                      This is again just your exaggerated opinion.

                      In fact, I tried Zoom, Bluejeans, BBB and Jitsi. Jitsi was the only one with bearable latency, and having low latency is pretty important for a good video conversation.

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                        Yes, I am frustrated with the current state of pretty much anything. So, I’m just gonna drop this here: https://tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/

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                          I think this article is worthy of a separate submission.

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                        Jitsi (and BigBlueButton) work perfectly for me whereas Teams doesn’t work properly, so I have no idea how representative either of our experiences are, but they couldn’t be more different. I only used Zoom like 3 times and yes, it worked.

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                      My blog: https://enconn.fr I write some technical stuff or post photos. But it’s not really active

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                        • Drawing, But since I work, I don’t have a lot of time to do that. In high school I used to draw like 3h each days. Since 4 weeks, I draw 1h each Monday.
                        • Community. I’m a “Free Software Consultant” at work. But even if we do not really have the time to do “social things” at work I’m involved in several spaces/events and love to contribute to other projects/events/debates. Contributing to the counterculture or social events.
                        • Discovering the world/photography. Each time I can travel in a new place, I do it.
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                          Already posted:

                          • Silence
                          • Newpipe
                          • Tusky
                          • Riot

                          New:

                          • Maps based on maps.me, use OSM. It’s pretty good for travelling (offline support too)
                          • Ring: for video calls and messages
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                              The biggest block I find to uptake of these messengers and call apps that so often come and go is the lack of mobile applications. Until there’s an Android and iOS app, my friends and family won’t use it.

                              I don’t like it, but it appears to be the world we’re in now.

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                                It seems like it already has an android app? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cx.ring

                                Could not find anything for iOS: https://ring.cx/en/download

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                                  Oooh I didn’t spot that for some reason. I’ll keep an eye out for an iOS app then.

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                                    There’s a source code repos, but no release. https://gerrit-ring.savoirfairelinux.com/#/admin/projects/ring-client-ios

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                                    Yeah, there is an Android but no iOS app yet.