1. 3

    I just moved my configuration to chezmoi, leveraging defaults.sh to export settings into bash scripts. This is the best setup I’ve found thus far.

    1. 3

      Birthday today (yay 33).

      I’ve been obsessed with my Suzuki Jimny (1992) and today removed the instrument cluster in a (failed) attempt to fix the speedometer. My lack of success with the aforementioned fix notwithstanding, the car has thus far served its purpose as a learning tool. I am less intimidated by its 3 cylinder engine and relatively simple electronics than I would be with some silly sports car. :-)

      This week: more car stuff and maybe some reading and maybe submitting my first patch at my new job.

      1. 2

        Nice! What led you to the Jimny? I’ve wanted one of the new ones.

        1. 1

          Honestly, it looked really cool and my heart started to pound rather hard when I saw it online. Also, it cost well below my budget…major plus!

          1. 1

            Totally! I’ve been disappointed the new ones aren’t available in the states.

        2. 2

          Happy Birthday! Congrats on the new job :)

          1. 1

            Thank you!

        1. 7

          I’m not even convinced that inconsistent style warrants discussion. Is there any evidence that mixed-style code is significantly harder to read? I think compared to things like good documentation and naming whether it’s

          void frobnicate(foo* bar) {
          ...
          

          or

          void frobnicate(foo* bar) 
          {
          ...
          

          isn’t going to slow me down at all.

          Either way, automatic reformatting is indeed probably be a good solution.

          1. 20

            I personally disagree — inconsistently formatted code causes me significant distraction. Yes, even braces on the “wrong” line.

            I mostly wish that weren’t the case, of course. OTOH, though, if that part of my brain were “fixed”, it seems likely it’d reduce my ability to be the “details person” on my team that catches all the little typos/subtle logic bugs before they ship.

            1. 4

              I think it’s less in the example you give (which is pretty straightforward) and more calling out something like this:

              void frobnicate(foo* bar)  {
                 if (abc) 
                 {
                     } else if (def) {
                 if (ghi) {
                     }  
                 }
              

              If you have enough indentation, I find it confusing.

              1. 4

                I agree. Ultimately it’s a non important detail. We all have preferences and different styles have their advantages and disadvantages. Hence the reason they exist. I’ve seen this taking 25-75% or the effort and time put into reviewing code. Often above 50%. Whatever importance this has, it is tiny when compared to what the code actually does, regardless whatever style it is written in.

                1. 3

                  For me, it’s like reading a novel vs a variety of websites with different styles. I can surely get through either, but the former’s consistency reduces my effort significantly.

                  1. 3

                    Is there any evidence that mixed-style code is significantly harder to read?

                    Speaking as someone who actually has worked on code with inconsistent formatting … not really, no. Usually.

                    On one project I worked on, each developer largely kept to their own directories, so everyone just kept to their own preferred style. Later in the project, though, we all finished the main work and started venturing outside of our little fiefdoms to fix bugs and whatnot. I would painstakingly write in the formatting style of whatever file I was in, at first, but then I noticed that nobody else seemed to be doing that, and over time you would see more and more places where the formatting style would abruptly shift for five lines. I found this deeply ugly, but apparently it didn’t bother the others enough to stop doing it. (Indeed, one engineer joked that it provided an instant fingerprint of who touched the code last, without having to look at version control.) So, it was annoying to me, but it didn’t really slow down comprehension.

                    However, another project I worked on was run by a bunch of novice engineers with no consistent style. One day I wasted a bunch of time trying to debug a very long function before finally realizing that, through the course of modifying the code, the indentation had gotten out of sync with the braces depth, meaning that the end of an if block was actually dozens of lines off from where I had been reading. Only the lack of a consistent style (and primitive text editors) made such a glaring mistake possible.

                    So, I’m more inclined to say: it doesn’t matter, until it does.

                    1. 3

                      Agreed. A sufficiently advanced code base will contain not only mixed formatting but mixed programming styles. Some parts will favor composition over inheritance, another might’ve been written in a semi-functional style.

                      Yet other parts of the code will have been written at a time when certain language features weren’t available, like Java Collections or unique_ptr. It’s your job to read and understand all of them.

                      If inconsistency is something you can’t tolerate, then you’ll have a long and unproductive career ahead of you. Maybe programming isn’t the right job for you?

                      1. 2

                        I agree it’s a small thing, but it’s the principle that’s important.

                        Consistency only works if you’re consistent with it. :)

                      1. 5

                        What does this do to all the branches forked off of master? Do they now track main?

                        What does this do to everyone else’s repository? Does their local master branch automatically start tracking the remote main branch?

                        1. 13

                          Branches don’t reference the branch they are forked from, they “just” have a common history which can be used to merge them.

                          1. 1

                            They do reference it as well as sharing a common history. Many git commands rely on that reference. You can change the referenced branch with git branch --set-upstream-to and see it with git branch -vv

                            1. 5

                              I think you’re talking about two different things - remote relations vs what commit a branch was created from.

                          2. 8

                            All good questions!

                            Branches based on master do not “switch” to main, but since no tracked data has changed those branches can be automatically rebased.

                            Others who have master checked out and write permission could still push to master and re-create it. There’s no real solution to this unless the “upstream” can be set to reject branches named “master”.

                            1. 6

                              No, it breaks clones, and every fork has to rename as well, or change the tracking.

                            1. 22

                              Simply being a woman and having a tech opinion online subjects you to techbros who will willfully misinterpret your words because they assume that you don’t understand terminology, you haven’t tried the obvious in terms of troubleshooting, etc, etc. I get this constantly on the internet (my actual working environment is not as bad, thankfully).

                              Whenever there’s room to interpret, whenever there’s ambiguity, discrimination is what drives your decision in understanding, so we have to prove ourselves even more, constantly, for respect of basic technical knowledge.

                              Try to catch yourself doing this. In moments where something is ambiguous, ask yourself if this is something you would otherwise interpret more generously if you were talking to a cishet white man (one who you like, just based on assumptions).

                              Its get tiring, quick, and then you want to give up. That’s how it happens. I think many give up before even going to an interview, after years of schooling. There is so much lost talent. Talent will increase when the culture is ready to face the problem.

                              1. 6

                                For any men reading this who have doubts about how much worse of an experience the nerdy side of the Internet is for women, here’s an experiment you can try from the comfort of your own home: create a fake profile with an innocuous female name & an ML-generated photo of a woman (or an avatar that presents as feminine). Then use that instead of your normal one for a couple of weeks when posting stuff online & see what the experience is like.

                                1. 11

                                  I actually did this a couple of years ago for.. less than honourable reasons honestly.

                                  I was convinced that I would be treated better by the tech community on Twitter if I posted as a woman instead of a man, mostly because I was getting berated constantly for being a white guy. (yes, it’s a minority, not real feminists, probably alt-right bots, I didn’t think about that at the time).

                                  My findings are actually very much in line with what I believed; my signal gets boosted more, people are less likely to pile on me and overall it’s a lot more pleasant to interact with people even when I reply contrary to the opinion, I’m much more likely to be treated with respect.

                                  So I made the switch full time I’m now a woman on Twitter.

                                  1. 1

                                    I did this ~10 years ago. Back then, it was a disaster in most communities; most people were civil but there was hardly anywhere lacking shitlords who would be openly sexist.

                                    Glad to hear that’s changing!

                                    1. 0

                                      This is actually very heartening to hear!

                                      1. 2

                                        It’s heartening to hear he has to pretend to be female so he isn’t getting berated for being a white male?

                                        1. 2

                                          No, not that part. I mean it’s heartening that his experience wasn’t as bleak as it once would have been. Not being a white guy myself, I haven’t experienced what he describes either. I suppose I could do a similar experiment to find out…

                                      2. -3

                                        Lmao sick dude your experience proves that the tech community treats women better than men. That must be due to the same reason why women hold disproportionately fewer tech jobs in tech than men, and the trend is only worsening over time.

                                        1. 4

                                          My anecdote is a single data point.

                                          I think what you’re trying to say is that despite (at least the western US tech segment of) twitter being openly hostile to men and very welcoming to women, the industry at large still has elements of sexism. Obviously I’d agree with that to some degree. There’s so many people out there that it’s impossible to claim that we’ve ever fixed male on female sexism for good. I would argue strongly that the “trend is getting worse” is incorrect though.

                                          But if my information offends you then I invite you to do the same, it’s not particularly hard. I fear we all have deeply held beliefs here and it’s not valuable to talk down to each other about it.

                                          1. 1

                                            Your story is not a data point; it’s an anecdote. And to be clear, it doesn’t “offend” me at all. Rather, I think that the overwhelming, vastly documented, and ongoing evidence of the hostility of online tech communities towards women and other minorities renders one-off anecdotes such as these not all too interesting in the broader discussion.

                                            1. 5

                                              It is indeed an anecdote, it’s not useful in isolation.

                                              anecdotes such as these not all too interesting in the broader discussion.

                                              I am responding directly to the suggestion presented as I have done this myself and it was enlightening and not in a good way for me; it nearly pushed me to the alt-right because I really felt like people were attacking me based on my skin colour and race and I can’t really control those things. However I fundamentally believe in equality so the alt-right is not appealing to me either. Thankfully on the internet nobody knows you’re a dog.

                                              I am not sure what cross you have to bear with my presented experience, I’m definitely not discounting anything regarding male-on-female discrimination.

                                              Actually, to be perfectly honest you’re proving my point slightly. The tech community that I follow is so focused on sexism towards women that they perceive all men, especially white men, as “out to get them” if they engage with them at all, and that pervades all future discussion.

                                              It doesn’t have to be political, even innocuous suggestions, improvements, more information etc; is taken as a hostile act when presented by a white man. in these circles. (“mansplaining” being the common retort when engaging people this way, but when given by a perceived woman are engaged with compassionately.)

                                              Obviously it’s an anecdote though, obviously it’s an anecdote, and your mileage will likely be very different from mine depending on the circles you’re in and how you approach people online.

                                              But, for sure there’s still a lot of horrible shit that people do to each other, I still see the “2 minute hate’ threads on twitter because some absolute twat decided that sending a picture of his dick to a girl or trying to flirt (badly) on linkedin is a good idea.

                                            2. 1

                                              I don’t know what you mean when you describe Twitter in that way, but I can assure you, there are plenty of other data points that disagree with your perspective. Do you honestly believe that white men on Twitter (or anywhere, really) suffer from a worse experience?

                                              1. 5

                                                I don’t think that someone’s experience of hostility in online communication has much to do with their ethnic background or gender. It’s fairly easy to find discourse on twitter that talks in disparaging terms about all sorts of demographic groups, including women as a class, men as a class, and white men specifically as a class. Different people will be bothered by the existence of people who vocally disparage their demographic group to different degrees.

                                                I do think that overtly anti-white-male rhetoric has a great deal more mainstream acceptance than anti-female rhetoric, and that this has to do with widespread social attitudes in English-speaking countries that only women can be legitimately harmed in a sexist way or only nonwhites can be legitimately harmed in a racist way. In practice, many of the ways that anti-white-male sentiment manifests itself is in malicious accusations of sexism or racism; that is, authority figures selectively characterizing behaviors as punishably racist (against nonwhites) or punishably sexist (against women) when the person doing that behavior is believed to be a white male, while simultaneously refusing to characterize similar behavior by nonwhites or women as punishably racist or sexist.

                                                1. 1

                                                  Oh, I’m not speaking about disparagement. I think we’re discussing different things.

                                                  1. -2

                                                    I do think that overtly anti-white-male rhetoric has a great deal more mainstream acceptance than anti-female rhetoric, and that this has to do with widespread social attitudes in English-speaking countries that only women can be legitimately harmed in a sexist way or only nonwhites can be legitimately harmed in a racist way.

                                                    Let’s be clear: this is not a widespread social attitude; english-speaking white majority countries tend to be, on the whole, still pretty racist and sexist. This social attitude you refer to is actually a fact. In societies with histories of racial and gender-based violence that overwhelmingly do harm to women and people of color, being “racist towards a white” and “racist towards a POC” are categorically not the same. I.e. in the US, slavery, redlining, jim crow, mass incarceration, disproportionate policing of communities of color lead to fundamentally unjust outcomes in the quality of life for someone born black as opposed to born white. So to a person of color in the US, racism means worse education, higher degree of poverty, a shorter life expectancy, a greater chance of being incarcerated, a lower chance of being able to vote, and the list goes on. And in terms of gender in the US, working women are still living with a significant pay gap, harassment in the workplace, and forms of cultural oppression. On the other hand, the magnitude of effect of “anti-white racism” and anti-men rhetoric generally boils down to hurt feelings (which I do not mean to downplay) and the occasional highly-publicized cancelling of high-profile white men which doesn’t come close to the magnitude of effect of centuries of discrimination in the other direction. It is dishonest and ahistorical to equate these forms of prejudice.

                                                    1. 4

                                                      this is not a widespread social attitude; english-speaking white majority countries tend to be, on the whole, still pretty racist and sexist.

                                                      I mean, a less charitable person would definitely say “compared to what”; because “on the whole” the west is a lot more amicable than other countries and cultures, but let’s not go there.

                                                      On the other hand, the magnitude of effect of “anti-white racism” and anti-men rhetoric generally boils down to hurt feelings […] and the occasional highly-publicized cancelling of high-profile white men.

                                                      Your entire argument boils down to this I feel, that inequity of men is justified because it’s not as bad. But consider for a moment the worst effects of what you’re implying.

                                                      If as a sub-culture which is pushing for mainstream acceptance you are to engage in open misandry and racism, not only does that show a blinding hypocrisy, but it also pushes your majority of people (who feel attacked) towards extremism, even if many feel guilt and will take extra caution.

                                                      Some of what you’re saying really feels to me like you’ve stopped thinking about society as “a bunch of people” and started thinking of it as a “system” which is made of demographics which can only act in a singular way. This is incredibly harmful because it’s engaging in exactly the kind of stereotyping that feminism is (and has been) trying to destroy for half a century.

                                                      When I see things like conferences being shut down due to lack of diversity of speakers and there blind speaker selections which attempt to remove bias and then it “didn’t go the way they liked” I’m reminded of identity politics, again and again, when in reality we should be promoting those who do good and not tearing people down because they happened to be born a certain way.

                                                      which doesn’t come close to the magnitude of effect of centuries of discrimination in the other direction. It is dishonest and ahistorical to equate these forms of prejudice.

                                                      White guilt based on the sins of the father.

                                                      You’ll have to forgive me for not feeling bad about being bad about being birthed with a skin colour. Since, you know, that’s kind of the point of being against racism.


                                                      FD:

                                                      I grew up, poor, the kind of poor that I don’t think you can actually imagine. The kind of poor where the idea of clothing is a birthday gift exclusively and sometimes you go to bed for dinner instead of eating.

                                                      I grew up also, in central England, in a city in major decline, surrounded by people from Pakistan, Bangledesh, India and parts of Subsaharan Africa. Even they didn’t know poverty like mine because there were programs for them to prevent it (not that I’m salty, I’m glad for them). The notion that “I” am to blame for the historical transgressions of white people and men, with my life, of being chased, surrounded by pedophiles, stabbed on the street, mugged and beaten on average once a quarter and surrounded exclusively by crime knowing that if you just broke into someones house you’d eat that day- have it “better” than any other person is just fucking stupid, racist and disgusting and you should be ashamed.

                                                      1. 1

                                                        Your entire argument boils down to this I feel, that inequity of men is justified because it’s not as bad.

                                                        No, I’m sorry, this is not my argument. My argument is that no intellectually honest person willing to engage with history would conclude that “racism against whites” and “racism against people of color” are remotely comparable, nor could they conclude that “sexism towards men” and “sexism towards women” (and LGBTQ) are destructive on remotely the same plane. It simply denies both history and contemporary events. This point was directed at @Hail_Spacecake btw, not yourself.

                                                        I grew up, poor

                                                        I am genuinely sorry to hear this, and you truly have my sympathy. Poverty is a grotesque failure of wealthy societies, especially in countries such as yours and mine. Nobody should have to go to bed hungry. Thanks for sharing your experience here.

                                                        The notion that “I” am to blame for the historical transgressions of white people and men, with my life, of being chased, surrounded by pedophiles, stabbed on the street, mugged and beaten on average once a quarter and surrounded exclusively by crime knowing that if you just broke into someones house you’d eat that day- have it “better” than any other person is just fucking stupid, racist and disgusting and you should be ashamed.

                                                        I am not blaming “you” nor arguing that poor whites have it “better” than affluent people of color (they don’t! it’s complicated!). This is elucidated by intersectional theory beginning with the feminist movement. I don’t really have much to say here except to reiterate my point above – I am not attempting to engage in the question of whether anti-white prejudice is justified. I am trying to point out that “anti-black is just as bad as anti-white” is a naive and anti-intellectual reduction of a complicated subject made by folks who are not willing to read history books.

                                        2. 2

                                          This is a good point, and something I’ve witnessed as well. But the solution can’t be to engage in more discrimination. The “men are bad, so let’s punish men” narrative is nonsense and just as bad as harassing women in the first place.

                                          Calling out discrimination, harassment, and so on when you see it something we can all do. I think public shaming and whistleblowing is an under-utilized tool. There’s also a lack of legal protections for whistleblowers.

                                          I worked at a startup where there was rampant sexual harassment all the way up into the C-level team, the head of HR knew all about it, and when I quit I was threatened by my former manager who called me to tell me I should keep quiet about it. They also tried to force me to sign a non-disparagement agreement but I refused to do so (they threatened to sue but never followed through because they had no case).

                                          1. 0

                                            Calling out discrimination, harassment, and so on when you see it something we can all do.

                                            I’ve spoken out in defense of RMS and James Damore when they were harassed and discriminated against by ideological feminists in the tech industry, to the point of being successfully driven out of their job in Damore’s case, and his position as head of the FSF in RMS’s.

                                        1. 2

                                          Would love to hear anyone’s experience, as this is something I’m contemplating doing.

                                          1. 1

                                            Ditto!

                                            1. 1

                                              We have a couple that we work on/have developed at Fanatics, I’d be happy to connect you with the folks who work on them. What sort of questions do you have?

                                              1. 1

                                                In general how difficult it was.

                                                Whether you went with the community support path or the the path that lets you be listed on Terraform.io? If the latter, did you engage with the consultants they mention.

                                                Why did you do it?

                                                Any technical difficulties?

                                                Did you get any uptake from external companies (unless it was for internal purposes)?

                                                1. 1

                                                  We’re building a system that enables simple and Fanatics-opinionated definition of an entire application, so this is likely not going to see external use. It’s built upon Terraform because of all the amazing capabilities TF already has, and because I think there’s a lot of distance TF can still cover for us. I’ll get an engineer working on this to come share more, and feel free to ask either of us if you’ve got more questions.