1. 5

    Norbert Wiener books. “Cybernetics: Or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine” and “The Human Use of Human Beings”.

    1. 3

      You prefer Weiner over Stafford Beer?

      1. 3

        In terms of Beer, I’d try Eden Medina’s book.

        1. 2

          Cybernetic Revolutionaries? Does that actually replace the source material or merely provide extra flavor?

          1. 3

            I’d say it provides historical context and a gentle introduction before diving into Beer.

        2. 2

          Beer’s out of print & hard to get a hold of. (I have access to a major university library & still can’t get a copy of The Brain of the Firm.) This probably limits how many people are even familiar with his stuff!

          1. 2

            Very good point and a real shame IMO. I own a copy but paid more than I’d normally pay for a book for it, and it’s in dead tree so I only got about halfway through it. (I have a super hard time with dead tree books due to low vision. My underpowered eyes can only do so much before I have to stop so as not to over-strain).

            1. 3

              I’m sure it’s possible to pirate a copy on libgen or something. I haven’t because I prefer dead-tree for deep reading.

              Maybe we can agitate the Beer estate to get a new edition in print & ebook.

              1. 1

                I’ve seen pirated copies around, but honestly I’m at a place in my life where stealing things just doesn’t work for me anymore.

                Also, the pirated copies are pretty much badly scanned PDFs. So you get what you pay for :)

                And yes I’m surprised with the resurgence in interest that they’re still out of print.

      1. 14

        I don’t host my email, because I think it’s too much of a risk. Email should always work, period. With a self hosted environment I can’t assure that.

        1. 19

          That’s exactly why I do self-host. If you rely on somebody like Google, you’re at their mercy as far as what actually gets through or not.

          1. 8

            You’re always going to be at the mercy of 3rd parties when running your email. If your IP ends up on a blocklist you’re doomed, every provider will blackhole your email. You’re one person, you’ll struggle massively to get it lifted, if at all - meanwhile your email is being blackholed. Google end up on a blocklist, they’ve huge leverage and will have it fixed instantly.

            Email operates on trust, its really hard to gain trust when you’re one person with no history. Especially when you don’t even own the IP space, so you’re relying on the trust of your untrustworthy ISP members.

            1. 9

              That’s my point. Google and other providers are silently blocking incoming emails. I’d rather be in charge of what gets through to me. Of course you’re always at the mercy of third parties regardless, but self-hosting makes it one less.

              By the way, I have a side-project that sends several thousand emails everyday. I’ve had to deal with blocklists a few times, but it’s really not that bad. It’s also trivial to switch outgoing IP addresses.

              1. 6

                I agree. I’ve recently noticed that Google is being way too aggressive in dropping the mail, including from some mailing lists, not to mention the private domains.

                As for your second point — apparently, I actually have had my domain name itself blocked by Gmail, expectedly due to sending myself some lists of domains through crontab, so, I’ve actually had to switch my domain for outgoing mail for now.

          2. 7

            When self-hosting, you at least have access to logs. You can see, if other side greylisted you or accepted mail immediately. Mail service providers are hiding all kind information, both about incoming and outgoing connections. I have self hosted my email long-long time, over 15 years. Sometimes there is little bit trouble, but nothing too serious. Most practical advice: don’t use well known cheap VPS providers. Those IP-s are bad neighbourhood, most problems with delivery are going from that.