The question is whether I want to work for an organization that is so lazy in their hiring practices that they’re handing out FizzBuzz to non entry level hires.
Even as it seems like an insult to the intelligence, you’d evidently be shocked at how many complete frauds have glow-in-the-dark CVs, and the horrifying fact that FizzBuzz-level tests are actually a useful tool, and quite a quick one.
Next time your company has a hiring round, I urge you to sit in. You’ll see why the poor person doing the hiring does this.
(I’m a sysadmin not a coder, but we have the same thing in sysadmin. Twenty-year CVs where they clearly don’t know basics.)
As a personal anecdote, I have to be in the right “mindset” for writing code, which is a very different mindset from “interviewing”, so much so that they collide. When I’m in “social mode”, talking about what I do, following social cues, etc. I absolutely cannot write code to save my life. When I’m in ‘coding mode’ I can write code for just about anything you can imagine but my social skills amount to grunts and forces smiles.
Having been on both sides of the fence, I think there’s really a perception that there are frauds behind every CV and it’s up to YOU as the hiring manager to root them out. I believe that this is an adversarial position before the interaction even begins. I’ve found much more success in assuming people are capable and letting them rise or fall from that starting point.
Further, this modality also doesn’t account for the fact that “interviewing” is a skill that is different than “coding”.. Solving large complex problems in relatively unbounded time (weeks, months) vs. on the spot 45 minute brain teasers/puzzles are two entirely different skillsets and don’t signal anything about the prospective person other than they’re practiced and your interview style.
Solving large complex problems in relatively unbounded time (weeks, months) vs. on the spot 45 minute brain teasers/puzzles are two entirely different skillsets and don’t signal anything about the prospective person other than they’re practiced and your interview style.
I wonder if this is analogous to doing arithmetic in one’s head versus doing mathematics.
It’s pretty easy to practice arithmetic and get quick & good at it, just by mechanical drilling. That’s one way you get to be known as the guy who’s “good at maths” at school. And then you get lazy about it because you have a calculator, and there’s something more interesting to do than summing & multiplying numbers.
Once on a coffee break, a coworker asked me something silly like how much is 1.5 * 0.5. It was sudden, unexpected, and shocking, and I just sort of froze. It probably took me at least five minutes to come up with the answer.
Were that to be an interview question, I suppose one could extrapolate and conclude that I am hopelessly bad at mathematics. (To be honest I’m not a maths geek but I’m not that bad either, ha!)
I’m talking specifically about 5-minute ones on the level of FizzBuzz, not 45-minute things. My cynicism comes from sad experience. Perhaps it’s the same 199 people, per Joel: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/
FizzBuzz isn’t a coding test, it’s a quick bozo filter.
Next time your company has a hiring round, I urge you to sit in. You’ll see why the poor person doing the hiring does this.
You know, I’ve been in a bunch of interviews at several companies, and I’ve never seen one of these frauds who are supposedly so ubiquitous. Maybe it’s because I haven’t worked at big or “name” companies. But I just haven’t seen people who couldn’t write FizzBuzz applying for developer jobs.
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Even as it seems like an insult to the intelligence, you’d evidently be shocked at how many complete frauds have glow-in-the-dark CVs, and the horrifying fact that FizzBuzz-level tests are actually a useful tool, and quite a quick one.
Next time your company has a hiring round, I urge you to sit in. You’ll see why the poor person doing the hiring does this.
(I’m a sysadmin not a coder, but we have the same thing in sysadmin. Twenty-year CVs where they clearly don’t know basics.)
But are they, though?
As a personal anecdote, I have to be in the right “mindset” for writing code, which is a very different mindset from “interviewing”, so much so that they collide. When I’m in “social mode”, talking about what I do, following social cues, etc. I absolutely cannot write code to save my life. When I’m in ‘coding mode’ I can write code for just about anything you can imagine but my social skills amount to grunts and forces smiles.
Having been on both sides of the fence, I think there’s really a perception that there are frauds behind every CV and it’s up to YOU as the hiring manager to root them out. I believe that this is an adversarial position before the interaction even begins. I’ve found much more success in assuming people are capable and letting them rise or fall from that starting point.
Further, this modality also doesn’t account for the fact that “interviewing” is a skill that is different than “coding”.. Solving large complex problems in relatively unbounded time (weeks, months) vs. on the spot 45 minute brain teasers/puzzles are two entirely different skillsets and don’t signal anything about the prospective person other than they’re practiced and your interview style.
I wonder if this is analogous to doing arithmetic in one’s head versus doing mathematics.
It’s pretty easy to practice arithmetic and get quick & good at it, just by mechanical drilling. That’s one way you get to be known as the guy who’s “good at maths” at school. And then you get lazy about it because you have a calculator, and there’s something more interesting to do than summing & multiplying numbers.
Once on a coffee break, a coworker asked me something silly like how much is 1.5 * 0.5. It was sudden, unexpected, and shocking, and I just sort of froze. It probably took me at least five minutes to come up with the answer.
Were that to be an interview question, I suppose one could extrapolate and conclude that I am hopelessly bad at mathematics. (To be honest I’m not a maths geek but I’m not that bad either, ha!)
I’m talking specifically about 5-minute ones on the level of FizzBuzz, not 45-minute things. My cynicism comes from sad experience. Perhaps it’s the same 199 people, per Joel: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/
FizzBuzz isn’t a coding test, it’s a quick bozo filter.
You know, I’ve been in a bunch of interviews at several companies, and I’ve never seen one of these frauds who are supposedly so ubiquitous. Maybe it’s because I haven’t worked at big or “name” companies. But I just haven’t seen people who couldn’t write FizzBuzz applying for developer jobs.