The act of powering up a computer, waiting for it to boot, doing some work, and then waiting for it to shut down gracefully is a barbaric ritual from ancient times. In 2018, we’re all modern and hip and just want to open up the laptop lid and get to work. Unfortunately this is easier said than done and as such it really only works reliably with the right combination of supported hardware. And even then, bugs in various layers of the OS can cause it to suddenly stop working consistently after an OS update.
This is one of the things keeping me on MacOS. The laptops are expensive for what they are, but the Just Works factor is pretty high.
This is one of the things keeping me on MacOS. The laptops are expensive for what they are, but the Just Works factor is pretty high.
Have you found that to still be the case with recent models and OS revisions? That’s also the reason I’m on macOS, but it’s gotten less true for me over the past 3-4 years. The worst is that sleep/hibernate no longer seems to work reliably, and it happens on two completely different devices, a MacBook Pro (2016 model) and a MacBook Air (2014 model). About once a month, one will fail to properly wake from sleep when opening the case. Sometimes it fails to wake entirely; sometimes it seemingly wakes but won’t turn the backlight on (in the 2nd case it sometimes flashes on briefly). Usually this ends up requiring a hard powercycle to fix. Googling suggests I’m not alone, and there’s a whole pile of cargo-cart suggestions for fixing it (NVRAM resets and such). That’s by far the worst issue, but there’s a bunch of software-side stuff seemingly getting more flaky too (especially the App Store app, which sometimes requires a reboot to convince the Updates tab to load).
In 10 years of using PowerBook and MacBook laptops 2004–14 I never had that kind of basic functionality fail to work flawlessly, and I would’ve completely agreed with you back then, which is why I kept buying them.
I can confirm your experience - I sometimes have the issue with waking from sleep, and regularly see the OS freezing for extended periods of time (I do have a lot of applications open, but come on, it’s 2018). The quality of software has been declining over the last 4 years. Unfortunately, I still don’t see any better alternative.
I wasn’t clear that I was referring primarily to the hardware - Windows 10 laptops with better specs (especially the GPU) and comparable build quality can be significantly cheaper than a new Macbook Pro.
It’s the Apple Tax: “In the end, we found each Apple machine to cost more than a similarly equipped PC counterpart, with the baseline Mac Pro being the exception. Usually the delta is around $50 to $150…”
So firstly, that’s an article from 8 years ago, that also highlights Apple machines having longer battery life, better resistance to malware, and use higher quality materials.
Secondly, the thread is about a feature that works quite reliably on Apple computers, but very poorly on generic PC’s running Linux.
So, if you want to call “better, more reliable features” a TAX, then we have to agree to label any product anywhere that is objectively better than it’s competitors, and has a higher price, “Includes CompanyName TAX”
Got a HP laptop that works faster than a piece of shit Chromebook? Must be a HP Tax.
Got a BMW that has more comfortable seats than a Camry? Must be a BMW Tax.
Any time a person ever gave me a set of Mac specs I was able to find a cheaper Windows machine that could do the same with hardware that works well. It’s not shocking at all to me given Apple’s marketing strategy of going for high margins. They’re currently one of the most profitable companies in the world with that strategy. Whereas, most of the other vendors became something more like commodities competing so hard on things like price. Your strawman comparisons don’t change that.
And any time a person ever said to me “I found this non-Apple machine with the same features/specs” they conveniently leave out features that they personally don’t place value on.
We can trade anecdotal stories all day, but the article you linked to, doesn’t really support your argument the way you seem to think it does.
The thing keeping me on macOS is being able to use Control and Alt for emacs style shortcuts for editing text anywhere (like my browser’s URL bar) because all the system keyboard shortcuts use the Command key.
Same. Apple can’t be beaten there in the current ecosystem. It just won’t happen. Unless Red Hat acquires a hardware vendor and builds a HatBook, there’s no chance. And they won’t do that because it’s not profitable enough.
That’s definitely the key. And while I’m glad you have a setup you’re happy with and have no doubt it works for you, I doubt it works for everyone, or even a majority.
This is one of the things keeping me on MacOS. The laptops are expensive for what they are, but the Just Works factor is pretty high.
Have you found that to still be the case with recent models and OS revisions? That’s also the reason I’m on macOS, but it’s gotten less true for me over the past 3-4 years. The worst is that sleep/hibernate no longer seems to work reliably, and it happens on two completely different devices, a MacBook Pro (2016 model) and a MacBook Air (2014 model). About once a month, one will fail to properly wake from sleep when opening the case. Sometimes it fails to wake entirely; sometimes it seemingly wakes but won’t turn the backlight on (in the 2nd case it sometimes flashes on briefly). Usually this ends up requiring a hard powercycle to fix. Googling suggests I’m not alone, and there’s a whole pile of cargo-cart suggestions for fixing it (NVRAM resets and such). That’s by far the worst issue, but there’s a bunch of software-side stuff seemingly getting more flaky too (especially the App Store app, which sometimes requires a reboot to convince the Updates tab to load).
In 10 years of using PowerBook and MacBook laptops 2004–14 I never had that kind of basic functionality fail to work flawlessly, and I would’ve completely agreed with you back then, which is why I kept buying them.
I can confirm your experience - I sometimes have the issue with waking from sleep, and regularly see the OS freezing for extended periods of time (I do have a lot of applications open, but come on, it’s 2018). The quality of software has been declining over the last 4 years. Unfortunately, I still don’t see any better alternative.
I am sorry, are you talking about your actual computer or was this a metaphor about human condition?
Haha, it’s true, we’re all sleepwalking through life most of the time.
Get a Thinkpad.
So, not really expensive for what they are, given that apparently no others do what they do, reliably?
I wasn’t clear that I was referring primarily to the hardware - Windows 10 laptops with better specs (especially the GPU) and comparable build quality can be significantly cheaper than a new Macbook Pro.
It’s the Apple Tax: “In the end, we found each Apple machine to cost more than a similarly equipped PC counterpart, with the baseline Mac Pro being the exception. Usually the delta is around $50 to $150…”
So firstly, that’s an article from 8 years ago, that also highlights Apple machines having longer battery life, better resistance to malware, and use higher quality materials.
Secondly, the thread is about a feature that works quite reliably on Apple computers, but very poorly on generic PC’s running Linux.
So, if you want to call “better, more reliable features” a TAX, then we have to agree to label any product anywhere that is objectively better than it’s competitors, and has a higher price, “Includes CompanyName TAX”
Got a HP laptop that works faster than a piece of shit Chromebook? Must be a HP Tax.
Got a BMW that has more comfortable seats than a Camry? Must be a BMW Tax.
Any time a person ever gave me a set of Mac specs I was able to find a cheaper Windows machine that could do the same with hardware that works well. It’s not shocking at all to me given Apple’s marketing strategy of going for high margins. They’re currently one of the most profitable companies in the world with that strategy. Whereas, most of the other vendors became something more like commodities competing so hard on things like price. Your strawman comparisons don’t change that.
And any time a person ever said to me “I found this non-Apple machine with the same features/specs” they conveniently leave out features that they personally don’t place value on.
We can trade anecdotal stories all day, but the article you linked to, doesn’t really support your argument the way you seem to think it does.
Yup. Buying a product purely on paper specs instead of including things like build quality seems foolish.
Macs aren’t that expensive anyways when you compare them to machines in the same class, like ThinkPads, Surfaces, XPSes, Latitudes, etc.
The thing keeping me on macOS is being able to use Control and Alt for emacs style shortcuts for editing text anywhere (like my browser’s URL bar) because all the system keyboard shortcuts use the Command key.
https://jblevins.org/log/kbd
Same. Apple can’t be beaten there in the current ecosystem. It just won’t happen. Unless Red Hat acquires a hardware vendor and builds a HatBook, there’s no chance. And they won’t do that because it’s not profitable enough.
This is basically the idea behind Librem laptops.
If only they had gigantic truckloads of money.
Only way to make that happen is to vote with our wallets. :)
I like the idea of librem, but unfortunately I cant see myself buying a laptop without a trackpoint…
There are some nice vendors where this Just Works. I use system76. Dell xps developer laptops are also great linux laptops.
As a very happy Surface Book user, I’d argue you’ve forgotten about the other OS vendor.
I’ve had this working on a de-chromed chomebook and xubuntu for a long time, the key is using not too new hardware maybe?
That’s definitely the key. And while I’m glad you have a setup you’re happy with and have no doubt it works for you, I doubt it works for everyone, or even a majority.