Threads for circuitry

  1. 24

    Copy paste is still horribly ‘broken’. I guess <Cmd>C isn’t a thing on Linux and <Ctrl>C has a different meaning in terminals, so I can get with that. And I guess there are tricky/valid historical reasons for having two different clipboards, but for the end user, it’s just shit not being able to copy in one app and paste in the next if you closed the former.

    I’ve moved between Windows, Linux, and macOS in my career with enough time to really get used to each, and the mac approach of using cmd for UI shortcuts is just a superior choice for this reason. It pains me that this isn’t possible in Linux.

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      Haiku (and, I suppose, BeOS back in the days when I did not even have a computer) went in the right-ish direction of using Alt for everything GUI. It’s sad to see Linux GUIs to be influenced by Windows so much.

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        Another added benefit of using cmd for UI shortcuts is that it frees up the control key for Emacs style shortcuts. The fact that macOS supports these out of the box is one of my favorite features.

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          MacOS also makes it easy to remap Control to the correct key position (aka the so-called “caps lock” key, which has inexplicable prominence on most modern keyboards).

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            The same goes for Linux (console) and ‘Linux’ (X11 etc). Keys can be remapped more or less at will, if you want to use AltGr or Alt as a ‘command’ key you’re free to do so. The main problem here is that everyone and his dog will end up using a different strategy, e.g. I use a lot of Shift-Left_Alt-X combinations for launching sessions on different hosts while those same combinations might do something totally different on your systems.

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              It’s not impossible on Windows either but there’s no built-in way, instead you have to hack the registry or use 3rd party tools.

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            Even if I do say so myself, since I wrote it, I use appmodmap to dynamically remap the keyboard depending on the application. Then I can still use my Mac muscle memory on a Mac keyboard with my Talos II.

            https://github.com/classilla/appmodmap

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              How’re you finding the Talos II? I laugh when I see “a price that won’t break the bank” on their site, but I still desperately covet one.

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                Well, yes, the sticker shock, but I like it a lot. Very little is missing of what I need a computer to do, performance is well within the Intel ballpark, and it satisfies my personal goals of more owner control and materially supporting viable alternatives to x86.

          3. 3

            It pains me that this isn’t possible in Linux.

            This is possible, the WM I use (i3, and now sway) supports setting a modifier key. IIRC the default is the ‘windows’ key.

            Linux is the kernel, and there are a lot of desktop environments and window managers that run on Linux…

            1. 0

              People say “Linux” to mean much more than the kernel. Don’t be That Guy.

              I’ve been using Linux for 20 years, trust me it ain’t that simple. Yes you can set some nonzero percentage of UI shortcuts to use another modifier, but it will not be comprehensive. There will always be one more thing that doesn’t behave correctly, death by a thousand papercuts. Linux is simply not capable of making a sweeping change like this in a comprehensive way.

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                What you refer to as “That Guy” is, in fact, “GNU/That Guy”…

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                  People say “Linux” to mean much more than the kernel. Don’t be That Guy.

                  Sure, but if you make ridiculous generalizations like “Linux cannot do XYZ”, then you need to be more specific about the userspace you used… because most of the time XYZ can be accomplished on a Linux-based userspace.

                  Linux is simply not capable of making a sweeping change like this in a comprehensive way.

                  I disagree. This is a userspace problem, and if the right person were motivated to solve it, it could be solved in some UI toolkit, etc. Will all distros adopt it? Who cares, there are different distros that are all different for a reason.

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                    you need to be more specific about the userspace you used

                    No, I don’t because it literally doesn’t matter. The fact that there are a multitude of UI systems to choose from, that don’t share a unified system of configuration, is the crux of the problem. There is no way to enforce any HIG standard in a Linux UI.

                    I disagree. This is a userspace problem, and if the right person were motivated to solve it, it could be solved in some UI toolkit, etc.

                    Great, what about all the other toolkits? How are you going to generalize this solution to work with all graphical programs?

                    You don’t. It’s fundamentally impossible on Linux.

              2. 2

                Select with left mouse button, paste by clicking the mouse wheel. No keyboard needed.

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                  The point OP is making is not that it’s easy to copy and paste, but that in macOS you have two “layers” of keyboard shortcuts. Most application shortcuts will use Command (Cmd+C to copy, Cmd+C to paste, Cmd+T to open a new tab, Cmd+A to select all, etc), leaving Control to give text commands (Ctrl+A to go to the beginning of the line, Ctrl+E to go to the end, etc, just like in Emacs).

                  In theory, this should also be possible on Windows and Linux by using Control and Alt, but in these OS almost all shortcuts use Control, reducing the amount of key combinations that an application can use as shortcuts.

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                    Many window manager allow defining and using extra modifier keys.

                    On a side note, modifier keys are proven to be slower than sequential keypress sequences and also more difficult to remember.

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                    A keyboard is very often much faster and accurate than a mouse.

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                      Not necessarily, with the obvious exception that literally typing is certainly faster with a real keyboard than an on-screen keyboard, but the task of choosing an option is probably always faster on a mouse.

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                        We’ve done a cool $50 million of R & D on the Apple Human Interface.

                        The original Ask Tog piece was published on 1989, and the quoted study may have been done some time before that. It needs to be asked how relevant that study is, especially when that study can’t be either found or replicated.

                        Further, it is unclear whether the quoted study address the improvement when user performs the same action multiple times as to make it a finger memory.

                        Here is a more recent study (2014), which shows that keyboards are fastest for often used commands while toolbars are better for infrequently used ones.

                  3. 1

                    FWIW I think it will be. With Canonical & Redhat saying “Gnome is THE desktop” I think you’ll see better across the board integration of things like this.

                    I don’t love that they chose Gnome (KDE fan :) but I AM happy they chose a horse. Maybe if they can make Gnome better enough, I’ll stop caring :)

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                      I hope you’re right, but I’ve been using GNOME since the 1.x days and I’m not holding my breath.

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                        It’s a matter of money and man hours, that’s why I think things will change for the better. Open source is not free. It takes go juice to evolve in positive ways.

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                      The USB HID standard actually provides (see https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/documents/hut1_12v2.pdf, search for “Keyboard Copy”) for a usage code that means copy (and friends). So you could in theory create a keyboard that has shortcuts for copy/cut/paste, universally.

                      I say in theory because I have no idea if all operating systems handle it properly.

                      1. 1

                        I actually have an old Sun Microsystems keyboard that has separate keys for cut, copy, paste etc.

                        here’s a picture of a similar one (though not identical to mine close enough) https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sun+microsostems+keyboard&t=ffab&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fxahlee.info%2Fkbd%2Fi%2Fkb%2Fsun_keyboard_left.jpg )

                        doesn’t work great on Windows though. it works, just not amazingly.

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                          Wow, that’s wild. It even has a button for giving folks props on forums. Sweet!

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                            wait, how can it work less than completely? Does it copy and not paste? copy only sometimes?

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                              I worded that poorly, the extra keys require a separate driver install on Windows or they will do absolutely nothing. On Linux at least the key presses are forwarded to programs, even if they don’t know how to interpret them.

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                        The “exercises” format used here works quite well for self-studying – does anyone know of similar articles?

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                          Oh, boy, you’re in for a treat. This is a comprehensive overview of the general concept with lots of references: https://www.gwern.net/Spaced-repetition

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                          Federated Gitea (or even better, some sort of open federated git protocol) would be very interesting.

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                            This really piqued my interest as well. Does anyone know more about the current state of federated gitea and what the future plans are?

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                              I’m reminded of git-ssb, which at first glance seems to be what you want.

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                                Another similar project is http://www.radicle.xyz (but I agree, P2P not federated).

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                                  Federation isn’t P2P. They’re similar in some ways, and quite unlike in others.

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                                    Yeah, git-ssb is a neat project! I checked it out a few years ago and I remember having some kind of issue with it. Maybe cross-device identity or something? I suppose I should revisit it.

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                                      SSB in general doesn’t support cross-device identity at all, but leaves the problem of identifying two different public keys as the same “identity” to higher level applications. There are several solutions in the roadmap, but nothing definite for now.

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                                  I’m gonna improve my home status display and maybe blog about it

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                                    What sorts of improvements?

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                                      I was thinking about having it show health checks on some of my infrastructure, as well as offering arbitrary DNS lookups via a javascript controlled form.