Threads for dgold

    1. 8

      Interesting project, I like the idea and the philosophy behind it.

      I could not get past the sense of cognitive jarring I had in the article due to the use of the term ‘solarpunk’ though. Every time I see this I get so annoyed by the buzzword I can’t focus on the actual content. When did everyone decide that the word ‘punk’ means ‘artistic style’? Did we vote on it? I feel like I never got a chance to point out that that is not what it means. Every time someone explains the term to me (including the one linked in the article) they compare it to cyberpunk and say ‘hey dystopias are bad, lets do solarpunk’. But the word punk means dystopian. Punk is a movement against authoritarianism and hypercapitalism and was always about members of the downtrodden rejecting the system and refusing to participate. Cyberpunk captured this perfectly and applied it to a mechanised and computerised future. Given that the world has become more authoritarian and more hypercapitalist since the height of cyberpunk literature I feel like the idea was spot on and very perceptive. Solarpunk can either be utopian or punk, but not both. Although I am strongly in favour of the general ideals behind the movement, I can’t help feeling that there is something naive and out of touch about the people pushing it, due to this choice of terminology. This is only strengthened by the amount of doublethink currently floating around in the entire green energy movement and a general inability to face the economic and political realities of our time.

      Sorry for the rant but I can’t get over this.

      1. 23

        As someone nearly old enough to have been a punk, and who was certainly in at the tail-end of the New Romantics, sorry, but your understanding of “punk” is completely off-base.

        Punk means a rejection of authority, as you correctly say, but there’s no requirement that it be dystopian. It means accessibility, it means do it yourself-ability. Not waiting for the man to do it for you. Solarpunk, hopepunk and cyberpunk are all on a spectrum of things which are punk.

        1. 3

          Also compare Cypherpunk

        2. 8

          “Cyberpunk” was called that because it was an SF trend that broke with the late 70s/early 80s “polished SF”, which was tired retreads of space opera, galactic empires, FTL fantasies etc, just like punk broke with the increasingly baroque “concept” music a few years earlier. Neuromancer was a literal shock, it depicted a future that felt just around the corner, and it focused on the hardscrabble losers who were trying to make it in that future. And it was written by an unknown newcomer[1] As someone who read it around the time it was published, it’s hard to overstate the impact it had on me and others.

          {Solar,cypher,steam,diesel}punk is, in my mind, just a marketing shorthand for a specific kind of work or attitude. I don’t really mind it, words evolve.

          [1] yes I know Gibson had been published before. But he was no Heinlein or Asimov.

          1. 11

            The word punk means dystopian

            Does it? Wikipedia says that punk subculture is “characterized by anti-establishment views, the promotion of individual freedom, DIY ethics”. All of these things are compatible with a kind of offline-first, low-tech, less-connected vision of computing. In a world where large corporations are pushing us toward hyperconnectivity that some people find to be psychologically dystopian, can’t pushback against that be all of anti-establishment, DIY, and utopian?

            1. 4

              Punk is a movement against authoritarianism and hypercapitalism and was always about members of the downtrodden rejecting the system and refusing to participate.

              That’s one interpretation, the one that brought us Crass and Minor Threat and such. But “punk” started out as a purely musical/artistic style that celebrated scuzziness and rough edges, viz. the MC5, the Stooges, and of course the Ramones. And the whole UK wing started out in Malcolm McLaren’s head as an extension of Situationism and Dada that very much engaged with the system while simultaneously trolling the fuck out of it. There have also always been fringes of punk that were authoritarian in themselves (parts of Oi! and all the Nazi punks the DKs were telling to fuck off.)

              On the whole, “punk” refers to a street-level DIY approach that doesn’t so much refuse to participate in the System as forms parallel, smaller and more amenable systems of its own — just look at the number of record labels, zines and clubs that have always been a part of it.

            1. 7

              there are no analytics, no metrics, no ways to go viral, to monetize people’s attention

              Yes! That’s the entire point!

              Take the surveillance-as-industry, the viral-bullshit and the monetization and chuck it all into the shitter.

              1. 9

                The key part,

                Not only can a Mastodon user communicate with users on different servers on Mastodon, perhaps more importantly this user can also communicate e.g with a Friendica (macroblogging) user or a Pleroma user. These are totally different networks that all support ActivityPub. But this is even taken a step further where that same Mastodon user can follow his favourite PeerTube channel or someone that shares great photos on Pixelfed. This is like you were able to follow someone with your Twitter account on YouTube or Instagram. This also means that this Mastodon user can comment or like the PeerTube video from his/her Mastodon user interface. This is the true power of ActivityPub!


                There is also Tribes which provides a custom-hosted version (I run mine here).

                See https://jointhefedi.com if you want to quickly try out the Fediverse.

                1. 10

                  In all fairness, Mastodon has one of the least spec compliant ActivityPub implementations out there. It gets stumped with a lot of valid payloads that were generated by other services inasmuch as having to implement Mastodon’s quirks is mandatory if one wants to do development for the fediverse.

                  1. 8

                    Maybe an unpopular opinion, but without Mastodon ActivityPub would be living the life it was living before, used by dozens of nerds.

                    Of course that’s not a proper discussion point to some, you may or may not like its ideas and technical features, but to me it was kinda useless when it was only identi.ca and statusnet and whatnot. I’m saying this as someone who was pretty involved in many FLOSS projects at the time. Utterly useless. It was Twitter if you wanted a thing like this and 90% happened on mailing lists and IRC anyway.

                    1. 6

                      Oh, I fully agree that Mastodon is overall a force for good in the Fediverse, at least in the fact that it made it popular with the non technical crowds, but I still wish they would work harder at some things related to ActivityPub compliance. Probably my own service will not be super compatible with it, as it skirts webfinger - something that Mastodon can’t do user discovery without. :(

                      1. 2

                        I didn’t look into it very deeply, so can’t comment if they made some shortcuts for time to market, or enable stuff that would’ve been hard to do, or just because they were careless or simply didn’t care…

                        1. 3

                          From my perspective they’re prioritizing the features that makes them a better micro blog platform than the features that makes them a better ActivityPub one.

                          I would like to say that being the major player in this niche they should take their responsibilities in this regard more seriously, but in the end they work on what they enjoy more, and that’s absolutely fine.

                    2. 5

                      Agreed. I am present on a few Mastodon instances but my personal instance is Honk which is a very opinionated and pure (I guess?) ActivityPub server/client/thing

                    3. 22

                      See https://jointhefedi.com

                      The servers recommended on that page are some of the most notorious in the fediverse, notable for hosting bigoted shitheads and having nazi-friendly moderation policies.

                      If you sign up on them, you will find yourself blocked by basically all fediverse instances with active and competent moderators.

                      1. 8

                        If you sign up on them, you will find yourself blocked by basically all fediverse instances with active and competent moderators.

                        This was one of the reasons I stopped using the Fediverse. I don’t like the concept of full-on instance-bans to begin with (something like warnings for out-going actions and filtering for unrequested ingoing actions would be more appropriate). I’m not sure if federation necessarily has to lead to fragmentation, but some people seem to accept it as a necessary tool and don’t care if anyone has a different opinion. In my case I wanted to hear what people on the spinster server had to say, but it was blocked on the instance I was on (ironically this made me go out of my way to listen to the points of radical feminists, which I don’t think was the intention).

                        Part of the problem with Mastodon specifically is that it has inherited a lot of the worst Twitter-culture by presenting itself as “Twitter with better moderation”, while paradoxically decentralisation is usually understood as a means to avoid being shut down by a central authority. Then again, it all ties into more fundamental issues with the Fediverse and how it presents itself as “each server is it’s own community”, while at the same time I don’t care about what server another person is using. The only thing I am interested in is the moderation policy and how well they administer the server.

                        The part of the Fediverse I still remain hopeful for is Peertube.

                        1. 11

                          I’m not sure if federation necessarily has to lead to fragmentation, but some people seem to accept it as a necessary tool and don’t care if anyone has a different opinion.

                          Instance bans allow for coexistence without cohabitation. You always have the choice of choosing your own policy domain/deferring to someone else. Forcing all nodes to be wide open would remove a lot of point and cause unnecessary annoyance.

                          1. 2

                            You always have the choice of choosing your own policy domain/deferring to someone else.

                            To a degree yes, thought I’d still rather that not be the case, because I rarely agree with someone on everything, meaning I have to administer an instance myself. But it is not only a personal issue, with instance bans threads are also fragmented, so depending on your perspective, you might unknowingly not see the entire conversation going on, leading to more confusion than necessary.

                            Instance bans are sledge hammers that are applied to eagerly (I do think they make sense for actual spam servers). Maybe the situation has improved since, but I remember there only being three states:

                            1. No limits on federation
                            2. Instance bans by Users
                            3. Instance bans by Instances

                            Where I think that there should be more going on between 2. and 3.

                            1. 3

                              There are degrees between 1 and 2, at least on mastodon. Admins can “silence”, meaning posts from that instance won’t show up in the federated timeline by default. If I’m not mistaken, there’s also “mute”, meaning interactions from that instance won’t be shown to the muting instance unless there’s a preexisting relationship between the actors.

                              I should also note that instance bans are not really a thing– you can mute an instance at a user level, but your data is still sent there and you must trust that server’s administration.

                              1. 2

                                instance bans threads are also fragmented, so depending on your perspective, you might unknowingly not see the entire conversation going on, leading to more confusion than necessary.

                                this seems to be an issue even if the instance isn’t banned. I see this happen with my small instance, where viewing the thread on the hosting instance (or from an account on another instance) shows different posts, and I’m pretty sure the missing posts aren’t from blocked instances.

                                1. 4

                                  iirc mastodon will fetch replies upthread, but not downthread: that is, if the chain goes X -> Y -> Z, and your instance is made aware of post Y (someone follows the poster, it gets boosted, whatever) then it will fetch X but not Z. this is why some people have a norm to boost the last post in a thread, as opposed to the first. this isn’t a technical limitation, since pleroma (the other big fedi server) will fetch the entire thread.

                                  of course, in either case, if one of the posts in the thread is private and you don’t follow the person you’ll just break the thread entirely, but there’s not much that can really be done there.

                                  1. 1

                                    oh wow, that’s confusing. :|

                            2. 7

                              Due to how ActivityPub works, you need to have near-ultimate trust of an instance if you wish to federate with them. If you believe the admins are bad actors, using acceptance of harmful ideologies as a proxy for that, then you can’t trust them with your user’s data, and must defederate.

                              ironically this made me go out of my way to listen to the points of radical feminists, which I don’t think was the intention

                              This isn’t necessarily against what the blockers wanted! What is called “censorship” on the fedi is usually about protecting their own users. Trans folks don’t want to have to see the same tired take on trans exclusionism for the fifth time today, nor do they want their posts to be seen by those folks.

                              As you discovered, there was absolutely nothing stopping you from finding out more from the spinsters, and nothing stopping you from making an account there either, right?

                              If we think decentralization is the key to freedom, then we can’t stop short of free association.

                              1. 2

                                Due to how ActivityPub works, you need to have near-ultimate trust of an instance if you wish to federate with them. If you believe the admins are bad actors, using acceptance of harmful ideologies as a proxy for that, then you can’t trust them with your user’s data, and must defederate.

                                What do you mean by “trust them with your user’s data”? Is there something a server can only access if they are federated, that a “blocked” instance couldn’t see via it’s public feed?

                                What is called “censorship” on the fedi is usually about protecting their own users.

                                I get that an instance would decide to mute another instance by default, but if a user explicitly requests to receive data, why should they not be able to interact?

                                1. 8

                                  A user’s private posts are always federated to any instance that has a single actor subscribed to it. That means that instance is storing a user’s private posts. If the admin’s a bad actor, they could see the private posts even if they’re not authorized to normally.

                                  1. 4

                                    so private posts are not actually private, much like Facebook, though for totally different reasons. great.

                                    1. 5

                                      Yes. Unfortunately, if you view private data disclosure as a security issue, Masto/ActivityPub is less secure than a centralized platform.

                                      There’s hopes that CapTP will solve many of these concerns.

                                      1. 3

                                        It’s similar to plaintext email, no? As long as the plain text traverses a server somewhere it can be read by the server admins.

                                        As far as I know, end-to-end encryption isn’t supported by AP.

                                        1. 1

                                          yes, but email doesn’t use the term ‘private’ anywhere. I think many(most?) people understand that email is not useful for HIPAA or other things where privacy matters.

                                          1. 4

                                            Many people sign up for things with firstname @gmail.com, and then claim the account owner “hacked” them. Many people think that companyname @somecustomdomain.com means you work for them. Many people think that anything @someother.tld means you actually meant @someother.tld.com.

                                            I don’t think most people understand anything about email.

                                            1. 1

                                              I think with all things, it’s complicated. I’m sure people in their 70’s and older who have very little exposure to email are likely not very versed.

                                              For the average professional that is legally required to care about privacy, then I think they mostly have the understanding that email != private communication.

                                              Developers SHOULD know better, but they still do stupid things with email, because it’s the only thing you can reasonably assume someone has. (like login with email, use email for password recovery, etc) There are sane things you can do to help mitigate these things, like single use tokens, etc, but.. I’m sure there are still tons of code out there that doesn’t do these things.

                                              I agree email ADDRESSING, which is what you mostly are referring to, is full of assumptions and mostly none of them can be assumed. The only thing you can mostly assume from user@domain, is that the domain admin at some point thought that user should exist. :)

                                            2. 2

                                              I agree with you it’s a bit of a branding problem.

                                              I’m just so used to the store and forward model of email and NNTP that I just applied that model to the fediverse too. And I have not heard anything about E2EE in the “mainstream” Fediverse.

                                2. 3

                                  The servers recommended on that page are some of the most notorious in the fediverse, notable for hosting bigoted shitheads and having nazi-friendly moderation policies.

                                  Citation needed.

                                  One of the servers recommended on that page, gleasonator.com, actually was created by someone that experienced bigoted behavior from mastodon’s toxic and neoracist moderation policies: https://blog.alexgleason.me/gab-block/

                                  1. 21

                                    As a queer person and regular fedi user, I concur that these servers are notorious. Multiple accounts from shitposter.club harassed a trans friend of mine just this week because they posted a selfie to their timeline. Freespeechextremist’s users have a habit of sea-lioning their way into my mentions; I think the last one was an extremely tedious “wow aren’t gay people bigoted” monologue mixed with Q-anon rants. Freespeechextremist.com, shitposter.club, spinster.xyz, and glindr.org (another Alex Gleason joint) all have the dubious distinction of being on the relatively short mastodon.social and mstdn.social blocklists for hate speech, harassment, and transphobia. With the exception of mstdn.social, this is not a general-purpose instance list: these instances all share moderation policies aligned with reactionary views on gender and sexuality.

                                    1. 5

                                      That transphobic bigot wasn’t ejected by mastodon’s moderation policies. Mastodon is the service, moderation responsibilities lie with the server admins.

                                      That transphobic bigot was ejected by todon’s moderation policies, because, as he so proudly proclaims, his bigotry is contrary to the server’s stated goals and aims.

                                      Those goals, aims and indeed the moderation policy are clearly stated on the server:-

                                      “we do not accept (among other things): racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, ableism and other forms of discrimination, harassment, trolling, hate speech, (sexual) abuse of minors and adults (also not virtual), glorification of violence, militarism, nationalism and right-wing populism, right-wing and religious extremism, tankies (ML), capitalists, (right-wing) conspiracy ‘theories’, hoaxes, and of course no spam and other forms of advertisement.”

                                      Gleason is a bigot. That bigotry was noted by other todon users (I number myself among them) and he was shown the door.

                                      1. -3

                                        The word “transphobia” is often used as a loaded term, just like “hate speech” is,

                                        Usually the use of these terms outside of political environments brings a toxic ambiance and is not conductive to anything felicitous or productive to the domain. I’m sure you’ll have a hard time finding any actual instances of fear/hate (which is what “phobia” literally indicates) from Gleason; and of course defending for female sports rights doesn’t qualify as one (saying otherwise would be bigoted and would at best qualify as … umm … imagined phobia).

                                        ’tis a good thing Lobsters is not politically woke to ban the likes of Gleason, eh?

                                        1. 5

                                          Gleason is a peddler in transphobic bigotry. Its an essential part of who he is. His “sex-essential” “gender-critical” nonsense is a paper-thin mask for hatespeech against a marginalised element in society.

                                          You have now defended him, Freedom of Speech Zealotry, White Supremacists and transphobic bigotry up and down this story, which you appear to have posted just to link to the aforementioned listing site for hatespeech and bigots.

                                          You can put all the ten-dollar words you want all over your post, I can say without hesitation that you’re both posturing and a troll.

                                          1. 0

                                            All you are doing, in your anonymous account to boot, is to accuse other people (Gleason and now me–that are not anonymous, neither are afraid to hide behind a mask) without evidence and without engaging rationally (as in without refuting the central point) but merely with politically loaded language (as in resorting to thinly veiled ad hominem).

                                            Lobsters would be better off without such toxic comments expressing actual bigotry, and I assume on good faith that you did not intend that, and is writing in a state of not being with a sound mind - so I suggest you take a break.

                                      2. 7

                                        They out themselves as a transphone one sentence into the blog post. I’m sure many transphobes think being told they’re a transphobe is toxic.

                                        They also had no problem joining Gab and admitting that it’s full of, their quote, “literal nazis” in the same article.

                                        1. -1

                                          They out themselves as a transphone one sentence into the blog post. I’m sure many transphobes think being told they’re a transphobe is toxic.

                                          For those who haven’t read the article in full, this is what the first sentence (which according to the parent commenter indicates that Alex is outing himself to be a “transphobe”) reads: “I got deplatformed from Mastodon for supporting women’s sex-based rights. Now Mastodon is trying to stop me from using Gab.

                                          They also had no problem joining Gab and admitting that it’s full of, their quote, “literal nazis” in the same article.

                                          Again, for those who haven’t read the article in full, here’s the full quote: “Gab is a free speech platform. It is true that there are indeed “literal Nazis” on it. This isn’t a hyperbole, as there are some users who quite literally advocate for the extermination of races of people. The reason is because Gab censors no one. It’s not because Gab likes those people or wants them there.” - and that quote was a prelude to explaining why censorship is bad, by citing past examples:

                                          • Marginalized people are at the greatest risk of being impacted by censorship. The Feminist movement laid the groundwork for freedom of speech in the United States with the formation of the Free Speech League in 1902. They were being censored from distributing material about sex-education and abortion. Keep in mind that the majority of people were against them at the time.
                                          • The Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s fought hard for free speech. The movement won a landmark case, New York Times vs Sullivan, in which Martin Luther King supporters were sued for running an ad which criticized the police.
                                          • Black Civil Rights activists were also arrested for: praying, “parading, demonstrating, boycotting, trespassing and picketing.”, “statements calculated to breach the peace.”, “distributing literature without a permit.”, “conduct customarily known as ‘kneel-ins’ in churches.”

                                          Nevermind that Twitter for instance has an uncommon number of neoracists as well.


                                          I flagged your comment as unkind, because essentially it is a low-effort post made to flippantly accuse somebody without evidence, and there is zero fellowship regard (much less an assumption of good faith) towards Alex to the point of even misrepresenting what he wrote.

                                          1. 16

                                            Friendly warning: anything anywhere that mentions transphobia or nazis becomes a bozo bit here on Lobsters. Don’t try to argue semantics, don’t appeal to actual text or logic or history, don’t waste yours or anybody else’s time–just steer clear of it and save those cycles for making things or engaging in communities with more mature discussion capabilities.

                                            1. 2

                                              You’re too wise for this place

                                              1. 7

                                                Wisdom is what you get when do something really stupid but take notes.

                                                …I’ve taken a lot of notes.

                                            2. 17

                                              “Women’s sex-based rights” is absolutely a dogwhistle for transphobia, and if you look at what he wrote in his own words he says that ‘transgenderism [was] first popularized on Tumblr’ (?????), links the “TERF is a slur” page, and says “transgender ideology is fiction”. He’s transphobic through and through.

                                              I’m also extremely unconvinced that there’s no way to prevent people from being actual literal Nazis while not hurting marginalized people. Like, if someone was to come in to the comments section of a Lobsters post and say “by the way, I think we should kill all the Jews”, they’d get flagged and banned, right?

                                              And you’re ignoring the fact that constantly seeing people say that they think people like me (hi, I’m trans) are abominable freaks that are better off dead, or even ‘just’ mentally ill people who need to stop pretending, is likely to push me away from a place. This is going to happen with any sort of ‘free speech’-focused Masto instance: the bigots will migrate to your instance because they get kicked off elsewhere, and the people who don’t want to have to deal with bigots are going to go elsewhere.

                                              And, going back to the list, it’s not just gleasonator. As someone who’s used Fedi for several years, every single one of those instances aside from mstdn.social is one that I’ve had shitty experiences with. And it’s not a coincidence that mstdn.social is the only one that’s described as not allowing racism or sexism!

                                              1. 11

                                                Like, if someone was to come in to the comments section of a Lobsters post and say “by the way, I think we should kill all the Jews”, they’d get flagged and banned, right?

                                                Yes. And it’s happened: a few years ago a comment on a story about net neutrality attempted to use that to explain why the U.S. should commit genocide in the middle east. I deleted it and banned the author.

                                                1. 2

                                                  … now that’s a leap.

                                              2. 8

                                                branching off from the thread, that quote is infuriating. they make the following argument:

                                                • marginalized people are affected by censorship (citing civil rights activists)
                                                • gab does not participate in censorship
                                                • gab has literal nazis on it

                                                therefore:

                                                • it’s ok for gab to continue to host literal nazis because banning them is similar to the prejudice that civil rights activists face

                                                i.e. propagating the speech of who people arguing for an ethnostate and committing real-life violence against minorities is somehow beneficial for those same minorities. fucking inane.

                                                1. 7

                                                  My comment below is terribly off-topic, I think.

                                                  A transphobe is someone who fears or has a negative perception of trans people. Supporting “women’s sex-based rights” is the same as saying that people born with female sex organs have different rights than trans people who are women. That is a negative perception of trans people who are women. Saying that women who were born with female sex organs have different rights than trans people who are women is, precisely, transphobia.

                                                  Your comment is a low-effort attempt to deny that basic fact; if you recognize that trans people exist, saying they should be denied affordances that cis people have is clearly a manifestation of transphobia.

                                                  That claim is so obviously false and inflammatory that I have flagged your comment as a troll. I’ve done you the courtesy of leaving this comment explaining why even though my own comment should rightly be flagged as offtopic. That’s because I’m assuming some good faith even though the obviously false and inflammatory nature of your comment makes me think that’s vanishingly unlikely.

                                        1. 4

                                          I somehow was under the impression that 9front was the current locus of Plan 9 development activity.

                                          Is that incorrect?

                                          1. 5
                                            1. 2

                                              9front is a fork of plan9. It is active, yes, but so is 9legacy.

                                              9front also has questionable ethics and “flavourful” aesthetic.

                                              1. 2

                                                9front also has questionable ethics

                                                If you are referring to the (breathtakingly tasteless) image that they had in their FQA file, it is gone. That is good. I think it was a terrible idea but I do not think it was in any way an endorsement of what it depicted. I think some people just have a very much more robust idea of what is funny or acceptable than others.

                                              2. 1

                                                It is an oversimplification, at least.

                                                In addition to 9front and 9legacy, I am aware of:

                                                The latter 2 are certainly active, but all other than 9atom seem to be to some degree.

                                              1. 2

                                                Heh, “OK, google!”

                                                So, essentially the nice people at google want you to verify your identity, to them, so that they can continue to expropriate your labour without paying you.

                                                Sounds like a great plan!

                                                1. 4

                                                  Commenting on my own post to add:

                                                  This is the paper which led to Timnit Gebru’s termination by Google, and which is currently, apparently, causing the termination of Margaret Mitchel.

                                                  1. 13

                                                    Elastic never promised contributors that it would keep its project under the Apache License forever, only that what it did release under the Apache License would remain available under that license. Contributors never promised to maintain the code they contributed to whenever Elastic called. Users of the software didn’t promise to send patches back to the project. Everybody got what they got and gave what they gave, right then and there. That’s how standardized open software licensing has always worked to date. No promises, no service-level agreements, no warranty periods or contractually mandated update schedules, just code and permission to run with it.

                                                    Kind of hard to argue with that.

                                                    1. 3

                                                      I do not fully understand the difference between SSPL and AGPL, can someone explain it to me? Is AGPL not considered open source? I think this may be the question to Drew?

                                                      If I understand correctly SSPL would force Amazon to open source anything that touches ElasticSearch eg. their entire platform? Is that right? So that would mean that SSPL violates freedom #0.

                                                      1. 5

                                                        You can check which licenses are considered legitimately open source here: https://opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical

                                                        Here’s a post by the OSI clarifying about the SSPL: https://opensource.org/node/1099

                                                        And here’s the definition of ‘open source’: https://opensource.org/osd

                                                        1. 5

                                                          I’m unsure that the OSI can be treated as honest brokers here. Open Source means what it says, not what OSI say it means, they can try to be a gatekeeper if they want, but noone’s obliged to take them too seriously.

                                                          Take this spew of nonsense (for example):

                                                          What a company may not do is claim or imply that software under a license that has not been approved by the Open Source Initiative, much less a license that does not meet the Open Source Definition, is open source software. It’s deception, plain and simple, to claim that the software has all the benefits and promises of open source when it does not.

                                                          That’s just incorrect, both factually and legally. Saying “license mets the open source definition” or “license is approved by the OSI” would both be deception. Saying “I believe this license is open source” is not.

                                                          1. 1

                                                            “I believe X” is mostly not a testable assertion, also it could be true while X is wrong. It is also not that interesting to know what MongoDB and Elastic are believing, it is interesting what they did. Thus: What could happen if one were to use software under the SSPL? Do MongoDB or Elastic use software they license under the SSPL?

                                                            A license like SSPL that nobody can comply with is not a license for you. Thus claiming its an open source license is deceptive. See https://lobste.rs/s/t9kcgy/righteous_expedient_wrong#c_swk45k .

                                                          2. 1

                                                            Maybe I’m missing something, but I still don’t see any details in that posts, or the links from it, what disqualifies the SSPL (how does it differ from AGPL?)

                                                            1. 1

                                                              The post links to a mailing list thread which has further discussion about why the SSPL was not accepted as an open source license.

                                                            2. 1

                                                              Thank you, this clears up my initial misunderstanding of what SSPL requires.

                                                          1. 2

                                                            As I wrote on twitter recently:

                                                            It is heartbreaking to think back at how much better the Internet was before social media…

                                                            And how much of that betterness was made possible by the exclusion of voices…

                                                            And how hard some people work to remake their internet the former…

                                                            Without ever acknowledging the latter.

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                                                              That looks very nice indeed.

                                                              It would meet my requirements if it had a clone address coded into the display. Given that you’re already setting details of each repo in the config, this could be an easy fix?

                                                              1. 5

                                                                D’oh, how did I miss that?

                                                                1. 6

                                                                  Nice to see, new work in this space. Congrats!

                                                                  I’m also working on something similar. I initially launched as a web front-end for Git repositories like CGit. It is written in Go

                                                                  Dogfooding it. https://git.nirm.al/r/sorcia

                                                                  But now, I’m working on collaboration feature where people doesn’t have to have an account in an instance in order to contribute. This way, I think it will be light-weight without any pull-requests features like Gitea.

                                                                  What I’m trying to do here is: Sending patches instead. I’m just doing a brief here:

                                                                  1. So, a contributor will generate a patch using ‘git-format-patch’.
                                                                  2. Upload it via the web interface or use the CLI utility which I’m going to build.
                                                                  3. Verification will be that they will have to confirm their email address.
                                                                  4. Contributor’s patch will get into a moderation queue for administrator or repo members who have permissions to check the patch and move it to the review queue for anyone to review the patch and apply it via the web interface.

                                                                  I’ve written about this in detail here https://gist.github.com/mysticmode/e07802b949af5985964f25d2cffcae5f

                                                                  1. 3

                                                                    Sorcia looks really nice. What do you think about forgefed?

                                                                    1. 1

                                                                      I’ve been looking at forgefed for a while. As well ActivityPub and ActivityStream. But it makes Sorcia a bit complicated. As I said, I need it to be lightweight.

                                                                      Maybe for discovery purposes, I might use AP. If I really wanted to make it federated or decentralized per-se - I’d actually stick to IPFS

                                                                      I got to know about IPFS through this article.

                                                                      It was written 5 years ago but it is still relevant and interesting to me.

                                                                    2. 1

                                                                      It would be nice if it worked without JS, like cgit typically does.

                                                                1. 3

                                                                  Please get a TLS certificate and serve this over https.

                                                                  1. 8

                                                                    TBH i get it when people don’t want to set up HTTPS for every server. I’ve had issues with TLS in the past, that even broke domain names, because of some minor mistakes here and there.

                                                                    1. 5

                                                                      “Minor mistakes here and there” is an opportunity to learn. Now that we have Let’s Encrypt, there are only few excuses to not provide secure connections everywhere.

                                                                      Personally, I have mostly stopped visiting websites that offer insecure http only.

                                                                      1. 3

                                                                        I’m talking about Let’s Encrypt, I wouldn’t have never set TLS up if it weren’t for free.

                                                                        Personally, I have mostly stopped visiting websites that offer insecure http only.

                                                                        I don’t get why? What’s the problem, especially if it’s a personal or a hobby site? No accouts, no important data, nothing to care about.

                                                                        1. 2

                                                                          I live in a country where the government is spying on its citizens and is logging all data connections.

                                                                          1. 2

                                                                            Denmark?

                                                                            1. 2

                                                                              Yes, Denmark.

                                                                          2. 1

                                                                            Private entities in the United States (e.g. your hotel, that hotspot you used over coffee) often make use of user data to further solicit commercial transactions. I’d take it as a fun excuse to play with Let’s Encrypt – or to see if you can get your CA to issue you a domain-validated certificate backed by an 8192-bit key (higher is probably possible, but it sacrifices compatibility and it a bit too absurd even for me).

                                                                          3. 3

                                                                            Personally, I have mostly stopped visiting websites that offer insecure http only.

                                                                            Well I guess if you’re not visiting the site your opinion doesn’t really count for much. There are reasons to support HTTP, and reasons not to use HTTPS. Just because they might not apply to you doesn’t mean they don’t apply to the person creating the content. Nobody owes you a HTTPS connection.

                                                                            1. 4

                                                                              True, I’m just stating my preferences and asking nicely.

                                                                          4. 1

                                                                            I agree, TLS is often a huge barrier for someone, e.g. whose device clock is not set.

                                                                            I don’t think it is always necessary for just reading text.

                                                                            If your ISP is MITMing you to the extent that this is an issue, you’ve got bigger problems.

                                                                          5. 5

                                                                            Yah, no, why?

                                                                            I mean, the spec for twtxt doesn’t require https. Non-modern computer systems can’t use https, stuff like plan9 and such.

                                                                            Why is it important that this be put over https? Why not comment on the spec, or on the implementation of the site, or pretty much anything to do with the OP than this load of nonsense.

                                                                            Seriously, this comment is like something you’d see on /. or HN.

                                                                            1. 1

                                                                              Chill, man. For reasons that I have already made clear in this thread I have a strong preference for encrypted connections, and all I did was asking nicely for https. That’s a comment that is just as valid as if I’d commented the CSS or on the concept of aggregation, and implementing https doesn’t necessarily remove http, so if people wish to connect over an insecure connection they can do so, the opposite is not true: if https is unavailable, you cannot choose it.

                                                                              I’ve been on twtxt for more that three years and the site mentioned is not a new one. I’m not a big fan of these aggregation sites: They keep obsolete feeds around and put a burden on the publisher of the original individual twtxt streams to update them or have them removed.

                                                                          1. 3

                                                                            I like the ideas of using cgit, but I think it might be smidge too bare bones. I think if you want to offer your own programs’ source code to people then it behoves you to use some sort of index / interface.

                                                                            I moved my own repos over to using gitlist recently, but am feeling a few pain points.

                                                                            1. 2

                                                                              I think if you want to offer your own programs’ source code to people then it behoves you to use some sort of index / interface.

                                                                              Isn’t that what cgit is? With scan-path cgit will show an index of every repo under /var/git for instance, and then once you’re browsing a particular repo it offers pretty much every view you’d want, no?

                                                                            1. 1

                                                                              Surprised noone’s mentioned FreshRSS

                                                                              Simple, trivial to install, maintain and upgrade. Can be easily deployed on a Shared Hosting Plan. I’ve been using it for ages and its just a wonderful aggregator. No pepe and edgelord developer antics, no 1,500 word “Opinionated” definitions.

                                                                              As for clients, there are a wide variety of recommendations, and pretty much any reader which can handle fever.api or googlereader.api can be used.

                                                                              1. 3

                                                                                I’m unsure that any computer with a price tag of €1,000/$1,100 can be described as “cheap”, even if it has decent specs.

                                                                                1. 10

                                                                                  You wouldn’t believe what people are paying for much worse specs, when the laptops have an Apple logo.

                                                                                1. 1

                                                                                  Like, I want to like this typeface, it has some nice detailing and all…

                                                                                  but, omfsm, the lower-case g is wretched. Not just that its single storey (which is terrible for readability) but look at that thing!? Its like the designer decided to make it single storey, but then just lost interest in the glyph part way through and never came back to finish it.

                                                                                  This is (sadly) becoming a feature of coding fonts lately - Operator Mono, the Cristal of Coding Fonts, also has an abysmal lower-g glyph; Victor Mono does the same.

                                                                                  1. 10

                                                                                    A couple thousand people got screwed over several decades ago by the British Government for geopolitical reasons therefore you shouldn’t buy the .io TLD? I don’t think that’s reasonable. .io is a useful de-facto gTLD with explicit tech connotations unlike .xyz, and as stated in the articles linked through by the OP a proportion of its profits are reinvested in internet infrastructure. Some things are worthy of boycotting, but this is not one of them.

                                                                                    1. 45

                                                                                      There’s a difference between “I urge people to reconsider” and “You’re a moron if you do this”. The author did the former, not the latter.

                                                                                      Everyone is free to boycott what they want.

                                                                                      1. 15

                                                                                        I agree, the OP is perfectly free to boycott .io if they so choose. And I am perfectly free to say that I think it’s hand-wringing and an over-reaction. On a site like lobste.rs, which is rarely overtly political, a skimming reader might think that there is a good technical reason to not choose .io, which as far as I know is not the case.

                                                                                        1. 20

                                                                                          And I am perfectly free to say that I think it’s hand-wringing and an over-reaction

                                                                                          I won’t try and convince you otherwise :)

                                                                                          might think that there is a good technical reason to not choose .io, which as far as I know is not the case

                                                                                          Well….. [1]

                                                                                          Also, the future of the TLD being uncertain due to these geopolitical issues is quite a technical reason not to choose .io [2] (I added an update about this to the post)

                                                                                          [1] https://thehackerblog.com/the-io-error-taking-control-of-all-io-domains-with-a-targeted-registration/ [2] https://www.prolificlondon.co.uk/marketing-tech-news/tech-news/2019/05/future-popular-io-domains-question-over-british-empire-row

                                                                                          1. 5

                                                                                            That first link was an interesting read, thanks! Good thing I’m too tight to buy .io domains anyway :p

                                                                                          2. 4

                                                                                            There are technical reasons too: it’s a poorly run registry with bad record of nameserver uptime. The whole thing is held together with chewing gum and gaffer tape. I know this because of the “fun” I had going through ICB’s registrar accreditation process, where I spent most of the time getting them to fix bugs on their side.

                                                                                            1. 3

                                                                                              Wait, I’ve thought this whole time that lobste.rs was a political wing in Kosovo/Serbia! /s

                                                                                          3. 42

                                                                                            A couple thousand people got screwed over several decades ago

                                                                                            Those people are still being screwed over, today. Denied their homeland, they are forced to remain stateless. Their buried dead lie in graves untended, their lands appropriated for CIA Black Sites and USAF weapons of mass destruction.

                                                                                            .io is a useful de-facto gTLD

                                                                                            It isn’t a gTLD, its a cock-a-mamey “ccTLD” run for the benefit of the same people who have stolen the Chagossians homeland.

                                                                                            Some things are worthy of boycotting, but this is not one of them.

                                                                                            What would be worthy of boycotting, O Sage of the Internet?

                                                                                            1. 5

                                                                                              I’m pretty sure tech firms have been treating it as essentially a gTLD for quite a while now.

                                                                                              What would be worthy of boycotting

                                                                                              China for atrocities against Uyghur Muslims, or Saudi Arabia for atrocities in Yemen. Nations and entities which have murdered people en-masse instead of just displacing them.

                                                                                            2. 29

                                                                                              A couple thousand people got screwed over several decades ago by the British Government for geopolitical reasons therefore you shouldn’t buy the .io TLD? I don’t think that’s reasonable.

                                                                                              I’m surprised (perhaps disappointed) you don’t think that’s reasonable. I can’t think of many better reasons to boycott something. You say “a couple thousand people” as though that’s a number that should be treated as insignificant.

                                                                                              1. 4

                                                                                                You say “a couple thousand people” as though that’s a number that should be treated as insignificant.

                                                                                                The suffering of one person is a tragedy, the suffering of “a couple thousand people” is a statistic, right? Considering how shady this whole thing is I think it is completely fair to just vote with your wallet and chose a different TLD at no inconvenience to yourself.

                                                                                              2. 14

                                                                                                A couple thousand people got screwed over several decades ago by the British Government for geopolitical reasons therefore you shouldn’t buy the .io TLD? I don’t think that’s reasonable

                                                                                                You probably would revise your position if you were one of those couple thousand who had a foreign colonial government stealing your wealth.

                                                                                                Beyond the problematic colonist mindset here, there are actual technical reasons, well documented at this point, and with a little google fu you can find quite a few horror stories.

                                                                                                1. 12

                                                                                                  I don’t like using .io simply because it’s supposed to be a geography-specific domain. It’s abusing the spec to use it as a trendy tech domain, IMO.

                                                                                                  1. 10

                                                                                                    Well, there’s .tech, .computer, .systems. So why .io? Just because it means “input/output”? If I make a techy website, why do I need my domain to be associated with “input/output”? Also, few people outside tech will get the .io reference. To others, it’s just confusing.

                                                                                                    There’s also the “future of io” issue: https://www.prolificlondon.co.uk/marketing-tech-news/tech-news/2019/05/future-popular-io-domains-question-over-british-empire-row Who knows what will happen if the Mauritian government gets ownership of the TLD.

                                                                                                    1. 4

                                                                                                      The problem with long, unusual TLDs like those ones is that they don’t immediately parse as URLs when one reads them - in fact, less technical people may not even realize they are URLs at all (I accept this may be a feature not a bug :p). They also break a lot of field validators. You are to some extent right about non-technical people not associating IO with input/output - I think many consider the domain synonymous with those simple online multiplayer games in the vein of agar.io.

                                                                                                      Is there a better source for the claim that .io would pass to the Mauritians if the UK ceded the Chagos islands (which I doubt will happen, but that’s beside the point)? Cynically, I am inclined to think that this will not happen.

                                                                                                      1. 6

                                                                                                        Cynically, I am inclined to think that this will not happen.

                                                                                                        On your side of the fence as well. I’d like to see it happen, but… UK giving up a source of money like that?

                                                                                                        In the end, it’s risk assessment. If you feel your brand perception will improve by using .io and the chances of .io going “territory only” mode are slim, no one is stopping you.

                                                                                                        It’s difficult, but I’m trying to not to judge. What other people do with their domains is their business. I’m really only asking to take these issues into consideration when buying a domain.

                                                                                                    2. 3

                                                                                                      This is exactly the kind of libertarian nonsense that seems to plague lobsters these days.

                                                                                                      1. 5

                                                                                                        Nothing about his comment in any way pertains to libertarianism or libertarian philosophy.

                                                                                                    1. 11

                                                                                                      Nice review.

                                                                                                      I do wish there were a few more “three months later” type reviews doing the rounds. All the first impressions are great, but what’s it like in use?

                                                                                                      1. 6

                                                                                                        You’ll have to wait three months; it only just shipped! Mine has not even arrived yet.

                                                                                                        I do kind of wish these had a trackpoint nub like the older Thinkpads.

                                                                                                        1. 3

                                                                                                          The trackpoint is the one feature that keeps me glued to Thinkpads for the time being because I am completely inept at using touchpads, and dislike using the mouse as well. I’m moderately content with the one I’m using as my main driver, but I know that I won’t be buying another after this. So yes, I would love to see an open hw laptop with a trackpoint. I could perhaps settle for a trackball. Never tried one. I’m aware the MNT Reform has one, but that is a whole different price level.

                                                                                                          1. 1

                                                                                                            Is there any kind of patent on the TrackPoint, or just not many manufacturers making them in components that’d be easy to integrate in a cheap laptop?

                                                                                                            1. 2

                                                                                                              The original TrackPoint was patented by IBM (so probably Lenovo holds those patents now). A number of other manufacturers have included trackpoint-like devices in their laptops, though they are often considered to be inferior. I used to have a Dell with a trackpoint, and that was definitely not as good. That said, the quality of the trackpoint on my Thinkpad E570 is also worse than on my beloved T60, but it’s mostly a question of the caps wearing out more quickly. So, to sum up: I think the patents could be worked around, but getting the design right would be a major challenge in itself.