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      Depends on what you want, I suppose. A single-file Django config should, as far as I’m aware, be able to set up the ORM, auth framework and admin interface, for example. Doing that with Flask, or another microframework, would require a larger dependency list and more config.

      I’m not generally a fan of framework fights, though, and I tend to think the real underlying thing in most Python framework-regret stories has much less to do with any inherent qualities of different frameworks, and much more to do with teams’ needs evolving over time such that they decide, with hindsight, that their original choices were bad (which is not necessarily true – the choice that gets you up and running may well be the right choice even if you later regret it).

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        True! It just seemed odd to bend django into shape when you’re looking for something small. At the end of the day it’s unlikely that Python is the long-term solution to.. anything

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          Off the top of my head, Instagram is still happily runs on Python (and Django for that matter) as far as I know. I frankly don’t understand where this idea of Python-as-a-prototype-language keeps coming from. Python works :-)

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            Also true. Being a bit hyperbolic for sure.

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        or better still, Bottle

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        Speaking only for myself:

        Pretty sure I learn better and faster through projects. Theoretical learning just doesn’t have the same “stickiness”.

        I’ve actually thought about this quite a bit because some theoretical learning is needed and it’s great to have.

        Here’s what seems to work for me (learning a new framework, language etc.).

        1) Learn just enough to get started. (Or copy something without fully 
                 understanding the nuances to hack on).
        2) Start (This is part many theoreticians never get to. 
                  Even less get to Finish).
        3) Find the pain points. Look up the answer. Rinse and repeat for a bit.     
        4) In many cases (if thing is important or needed):
                   Finally give up and methodically read the docs or take the class. 
                   Now the information is pertinent rather than just words and 
                              disembodied concepts and it seems to take hold.

        Doing it in the reverse order just doesn’t seem to work nearly as well.

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          That’s basically the same process I go through. Steps 1-2 quickly provide a mental model for understanding the subject. Once you have that model, it’s easier to do a proper reading of the documentation and incorporate that information by relating it to a project you’ve already started.

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          Good points and although they are more widely applicable, NPM is a special case of crazy.

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            I’d suggest posting limits.

            One problem HN seems to have is a cadre of frequent posters posting fluff, political opinion, non related experiences or chit-chat, making it difficult to sort out expert commentary from a thread. Over time it seems this group has gotten less and less technical to the point it’s hardly worth reading the comments on HN anymore when at one time it was. Once the karma gaming starts it’s downhill from there.

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              Limits on posting posts (=top level content) or comments?

              Because it would be very unfortunate if you post a comment, and are attacked for it, but you cannot answer or defend yourself because your posting limit is exceeded.

              There’s so many solutions based on limits and controls. What’s wrong with the adage that the solution to bad speech is more speech?

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              Unionising, workers rights, vaguely approaching topics like socialism; this is hardcore politics, glad to see it at the top of lobste.rs.

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                I definitely felt that there was a tag missing for this story. Not #politics, because that’s off-topic in the general, but a subset like #workers–which is obviously relevant to the vast majority of us here.

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                  This story is completely political, it has +59 and only -3 off topic, so it doesn’t hold that the subject of politics is off topic here, otherwise this should have been removed by a moderator or downvoted by the community.

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                    It is political and relevant, but not all political content is relevant. The vast majority isn’t, like electoral or cultural or international (non-tech) politics.

                    What I’m saying is, #politics is too wide. There is a subset deserving of a tag, and this story is in that subset.

                    The subset of politics relevant to Lobste.rs is tech worker organizing / rights / struggles. Stories such as the one about secret pay cap deals between companies would belong there as well.

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                      Totally agree, of course lobste.rs is about/for technology, not politics as a separate domain. But isn’t every lobste.rs tag implied that it’s about that subject at the intersection with technology, not the subject itself? Lobste.rs does happily cover the intersection of tech with biology and cognitive science; maths and history; geography and psychology, so why exclude the intersection with one particular subject?

                      I agree that the definition of the subset and the terms used to refer to it is critically important, not least because of the amount of raw fear present here that ‘politics’ as a subject has a violent power to destroy this community.

                      Would it be reasonable to expand the subset to include the social implications and considerations of technology, as for example is voted +69 here

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                        Yes. We have tags for art, persons, philosophy, and satire that are enormous subjects in their own right. I’ve removed a few otherwise pretty neat links for not intersecting substantially with computing.

                        I’m very reluctant to add a politics tag as it’s very hard to draw a bright line around in the way it is, say, illumos. The political discussions we have (often nominally about licensing, codes of conduct, specific famous people/businesses/groups) account for the majority of threads that cause moderator heartburn - removing the outright abusive comments is not so hard; after battle lines have been drawn I burn a bunch of time and attention eg. messaging people to remind them that downvotes and flags are not for following people around the site and punishing them.

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                          yeah, I don’t think #politics is the right way to go, but I think there might be some other middleground here which opens space for the kind of valuable conversations that have happened in this post. If I can come up with a constructive suggestion I will.

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                      I don’t know, maybe a #politics tag would bring a negative connotation, because of the word itself? It’s sorta how I interpreted the comment you’re replying to.

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                    I had to finally quit reading HN because so much of this type of stuff. Please don’t bring it to lobste.rs next. Really don’t want to see everyone’s opinion on politics, just javascript frameworks if that’s not too much to ask.

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                      see I really don’t want to see javascript frameworks

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                      This is politics about as much as arguing over pay professionally is politics.

                      Inclusionism of “politics” would irreperably damage the site and destroy its culture.