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    I bought the limited edition hardcopy, this is a super-fun game.

    If you like this game, you will likely enjoy the other zachtronics games.

    If you enjoyed writing assembly in DOS, TIS-100 is your best bet.

    If you like graphical/visual programming, try Opus Magnum.

    For the games listed above, you can see the cost of your Steam friends’ solutions. Once you’ve solved a puzzle, it’s surprisingly much fun to try to beat the scores of people you know.

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      Shenzhen I/O is pretty rad too; bought the feelies for that one, and get asked about the binder routinely :D

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        If verilog/VHDL is your kink, MHRD is a lot of fun.

        1.  

          That’s been on my steam wish list for a very long time. I’ll have to check it out when I “finish” EXAPUNKS.My brief interaction with Verilog was mind-opening. I’d really enjoy a game with a similar medium but the right constraints.

          1.  

            Funny, I’m just teaching myself verilog right now! I’m still in the random walk stage but hopefully soon I’ll have a clue.

        1.  

          A good use for the release tag!

          1.  

            Perhaps this is a reasonable place to open a discussion about why lobste.rs doesn’t have a politics tag. The way technology is built and used is political; it’s hard to entertain arguments against that. I have deep empathy with the point of view that technology is a craft and an engineering discipline and there is a whole set of discussions and a space to be made for talking about technology in as non political a way as possible, which is what lobste.rs currently does, and I do kind of like it like that.

            However the reason I think it’s important to bring political discourse into this space is because you lobste.rs are making politics decisions when you choose your job, choose the work you do and make critical technological and political decisions as part of your work which affect All Your Relationships*; this is an intelligent, considerate and engaged community and I see much more harm than good in choosing to hide from that fact, though I will say again I have a huge respect for and enjoyment of this space as a non-political one.

            So I suppose I’d like to pose the question, given that the tagging system allows any user to filter out posts they are not interested in, what does the lobste.rs community have to lose by opening itself to some political discussion? Is there a feeling that it will somehow pose a risk to this community? Is there a fear that a certain type of user will be attracted, that a certain type of behaviour will be allowed/promoted by this which will have a negative impact throughout the whole site?

            I don’t want to promote the idea that lobste.rs should be a political space, I want to check in with everyone here that we are all ok that it isn’t and have properly checked in with what our fears and rationalisations are about that choice.

            ** The ‘All Your Relationships’ idea comes from the talk in this link which suggests the idea that all technologists are touching a huge network of people and that in some way you have a real relationship with many many people, e.g. all the people that worked to manufacture the phone in your pocket.

            1. 9

              Perhaps this is a reasonable place to open a discussion about why lobste.rs doesn’t have a politics tag.

              We don’t have a politics tag, in part and sufficiently, because the topic is too broad for a contributor to have a meaningful understanding of the topics and discussion that would fall under it. For folk that can make meaningful, informed, truthful, and constructive contributions in an on-topic matter, there is the law tag.

              We’re a community of practitioners. The practice of politics is law. Practitioners of law, whether legislators, lawyers, judges, or any of the various roles in courts and the extant legal system are welcome here. Along with the technical discussions these practitioners engage in.

              However the reason I think it’s important to bring political discourse into this space is because you…

              This is called entryism: “…an organisation or state encourages its members or supporters to join another, usually larger, organisation in an attempt to expand influence and expand their ideas and program.”

              Here you providing a totalizing reason (“All Your Relationships”) as to why a new tag should be added. Tags are deflationary, not inflationary. They identify areas where a subset of our readers and contributors can expect detailed, operational, consistent, and where possible even scientific discourse. And that further they can measure their own understanding of the topic because it has clear and defined boundaries.

              Politics is off-topic here because it lacks parsimony. In order to create space for technical topics we do not discriminate on the basis of people, groups, or fields of endeavor. Folk are here to talk about and work on their own and their field’s issues in sufficient technical detail to coordinate with their peers. Ideology, politics, propaganda, framing, and other fictionalisms are an impediment to dealing with the technical and material nature of our work and world.

              The chattering class has plenty of places on the Internet to proselytize. This isn’t one of them.

              1. 5
                Short answer

                what does the lobste.rs community have to lose by opening itself to some political discussion?

                see

                this is an intelligent, considerate and engaged community

                Long answer

                Tag usage

                First, a note on tags: every tag we add is an explicit endorsement that that sort of content is acceptable and encouraged on the site–the omission of a tag is a hint that maybe that content would be better served elsewhere.

                If we were to include a politics tag, we’d in effect be saying “Okay, the distribution of topics appropriate for Lobsters now includes politics. This is valid to bring up in all conversations, because at worst it’s merely mislabeled and mistagged.” So, we’re then stuck with more politics in everyday use in the site.

                Availability elsewhere

                Simply put, politics are better covered elsewhere:

                It’s not like our fellow crustaceans can’t find something to slate their thirst for politics elsewhere–not only that, but they have dozens if not hundreds of sites to choose from to match their political requirements.

                By contrast, Lobsters itself is a rare gem (if I may say so myself) in that it is relatively pure technical discussion, a refuge from a world of blathering bullshit and ponderous pandering.

                Politics is the boardkiller

                I’ve explored elsewhere how political submissions can be used to farm karma at the expense of discussion. The key things to note about political articles:

                • They rarely have any technical content, as the point of politics is not education but subjugation
                • They tend to cover topics that everybody has opinions about but few have expertise in
                • They usually talk about things over which none of the discussion participants actually have any control, so you get a lot of yelling back and forth without any action
                • There is a gigantic industry devoted to crafting the most divisive articles possible

                We probably share this board with a few tankies. We probably share this board with a few Nazis. We have folks here that don’t recognize a standard arrangement of genders or possibly even human identities. We have folks that are from the US, from the UK, from the rest of the world. We even have a few Windows users.

                And we all get along (mostly) because we aren’t constantly pitted against each other in pointless tribal ideological posturing and signaling. We all get to respect each other as practitioners of technology instead of representatives of some other out-group.

                Why would we want to risk sacrificing that?

                EDIT:

                I’ll point out that 4chan has created at least 2 containment boards for politics (the equivalent of your proposed tag), and not only has that failed it’s only fostered some of the most corrosive drivel on the internet.

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                  Perhaps this is a reasonable place to open a discussion about why lobste.rs doesn’t have a politics tag.

                  It’s not. We have the meta tag and chat for meta discussions.

                  1.  

                    Chat link is broken? Are you referring to IRC? For people that don’t inhabit that space is there any mechanism for decisions / important discussions that happen there to get filtered back to the website?

                    1.  

                      Fixed the chat link; should’ve been to /chat not /, sorry about that.

                      Discussion filters back into meta threads. We’re generally just shooting the breeze or kicking ideas around, it’s not very serious because it’s so transient and has only a fraction of the community on it. The only important thing I can think of that’s come out of it was this comment (though it’s been a long couple days for me so maybe I’m forgetting something).

                  2.  

                    “Perhaps this is a reasonable place to open a discussion about why lobste.rs doesn’t have a politics tag.”

                    We did. The were a large number of people in support of or against politics or tags. No clear winner. Further, most that support it want to be able to talk about it on any article to push their political views. Of them, some want many views to be discussed as part of the political process and others want all opponents censored and/or ejected. For different reasons, both need political comments available on every thread. There’s some others but that’s the major groups based on what they said or did.

                    Im in the group that’s for banning most politics or limiting it to politically-focused threads tagged as such. Like I said, the prior discussions got nowhere for my side. So, I discourage even talking about it to avoid polluting more threads. We can just do a yearly meta or something to assess if the community’s preferences have changed. That’s assuming @pushcx would go with the popular vote to begin with. His own convictions might lead him to do something different.

                    Who knows except to say we’re better off not talking about banning politics or a new tag more than once a year since it’s wasted bandwidth that also often causes headaches for our moderators when fights break out.

                    1.  

                      Is there a link to where we (who?) did?

                    2. [Comment removed by author]

                      1.  

                        This talk is only tangentially about climate change, as one globally significant effect that technology has and a great example of how to think about the result of technological work.

                        ‘politics’ is about how groups of people take action together, (in anything other than the most rudimentary ways). So climate change science is different from, but will inform climate change politics, which will be the process of figuring out as a group of people how to collectively respond to the information we understand from climate change science.

                        to bring this back to my original point, I’m suggesting that the lobste.rs community can have a positive benefit on politics (therefore directly influencing e.g. climate change) through technology by discussion, and therefore should consider carefully the choice to not do that.

                        1.  

                          You benefit politics by interacting with branches of government, bribes to politicians paid through lobbyists, court action, and last (in effectiveness for time invested) getting a huge pile of voters to push their officials for a specific thing. You can’t do any of that though a tiny, slow-moving, tech forum. We were neither setup for mass action or government interventions nor mostly capable of it. So, doing the people-oriented parts of reform on Lobsters is mostly waste.

                          Now, Lobsters can help on the legal or technical side by creating the alternatives along with cost-benefit analyses. Then, get folks to share and describe it in places that get lots of attention. Some can even be a business that becomes a Barnacl.es submission after succeeding financially and on mission as a nonprofit or public-benefit corporation. Lobsters has more talent for producing and reviewing the tech than many places. That’s what we should focus on, submit, and talk about here. As we already do. :)

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                      This doesn’t feel like a review as much as if feels like Intel bashing and AMD advertising. I’d like to see more data from actually using the device.

                      Everything in this article could be assumed from just reading the specs, I think.

                      1. 4

                        Apparently not, considering that the same CPU has a 50% performance penalty on Windows.

                        1. 2

                          when clicking through to the pages after the first, there are benchmark results: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-linux-2990wx&num=4

                          1. 2

                            This is a problem with posting product reviews (read: hardware news, which is news) here.

                            1. 1

                              As someone writing an article, I guess it’s difficult to know where to stop the details or not as well. Like, that’s probably a difficult line to draw? Either way, though, I think there’s probably an easy way to tell that I just don’t 100% know how to explain objectively.

                          1. 3

                            One particular pattern I’ve noticed time and again in my career is that code duplication often can ease maintenance and simplify remediation of technical debt.

                            You take a pathway that the data travels, and you duplicate every step/function along that route–then, you can start compacting down and instrumenting things without harming the day-to-day business until you’re ready to cut over; somewhat similar to the detours you might see in street construction.

                            Duplication also makes it a lot easier to do one-off weird business things that have to get done without risking fiddling with business logic and abstractions the rest of the system depends on. This is part of why schlub just embraces the jank and requires you to copy-and-paste what you need.

                            1. 13

                              Finally, blogspam I can trust. :)

                              Thank you for your work!

                              1. 4

                                Hi, I’m friendlysock and I write about programming and tech philosophical/cultural issues at angersock.com.

                                1. 2

                                  whats this serious for? is he making an emulator?

                                  1. 3

                                    Raymond Chen has a history of just posting interesting arcana about architectures Windiws did and did not quite support.

                                  1. 3

                                    In progress:

                                    Recently finished:

                                    • Building E-commerce Applications, a complete waste of money and basically just a lazy compilation of undedited blog posts. Booooo.

                                    • Come and Take It: The Gun Printer’s Guide to Thinking Free, by Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed fame. I finished this probably a week before the current kerfluffle started. There’s a whoooole lot of self-congratulatory bullshit and bluster in this, as Wilson is first and foremost (in my opinion) an attention whore, but buried in there are a couple of good reflections on the role of toolmakers in the pursuit of independence.

                                    • Come as You Are, a delightful book by Emily Nagoski that I heard about through OhJoySexToy (webcomic about sexual health and practices). It covers a lot of interesting academic information about sex, attraction, and romance, and can help in debugging certain failure modes of relationships or in preemptively being a better partner.

                                    1. 3

                                      buried in there are a couple of good reflections on the role of toolmakers in the pursuit of independence.

                                      We cannot be free until we control the means of production? That sounds like a good reflection, all right :-)

                                      (Note: this may sound like I’m trying to rile you. I’m not, I am genuinely amused to see Marx echoed in this unexpected context.)

                                      1. 4

                                        As the good Chairman once said, “Political power grows out of the barrel of the gun…”.

                                        A lot of Marxists, communists, and libertarians I think would actually have a lot to talk to each other about if they weren’t so busy engaging in culture war these days.

                                        1. 3

                                          It isn’t too surprising, since all three sprang from the same philosophical tradition.

                                          A funny aside: a friend of mine recently noted, with regard to economics, we’re all Marxists now.

                                          1. 3

                                            Yup! Certain groups don’t really like to think about it, but because Marx did the first serious systematic analysis of how economies worked on a global scale (and coined the word “capitalism”, although contrary to popular opinion he did not coin but merely redefined “communism”), all modern economics owes a debt to Marx at least as big as the one it owes to Von Neumann. Even those opposed to Marx’s conclusions are using methods he pioneered to fight them. (Or, to be more direct: “economics begins with Marx” / “Karl Marx invented capitalism”)

                                            1. 2

                                              You might like this recent podcast episode from BBC Thinking Allowed: Marx and Marxism: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b2kpm0

                                      2. 3

                                        Come and Take It: The Gun Printer’s Guide to Thinking Free, by Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed fame. I finished this probably a week before the current kerfluffle started. There’s a whoooole lot of self-congratulatory bullshit and bluster in this, as Wilson is first and foremost (in my opinion) an attention whore, but buried in there are a couple of good reflections on the role of toolmakers in the pursuit of independence.

                                        This was on my reading list; but, after I did the ’ol Amazon “Look Inside,” I took it off because it looked like the signal/noise would be unacceptable. Please give a shout if it ends up being worthwhile. I watched a few of his pre-DD/early-DD lectures on philosopy, and the guy gave me stuff to chew on.

                                        1. 2

                                          So, again, having finished it I think the same points could be handled in a pamphlet instead of the drawn-out narrative Wilson attenpts.

                                          1. 1

                                            Thanks for humouring my obviously lacking reading comprehension skills. 🤦🏾‍♂️

                                          2. 1

                                            Lectures on philosophy? Had no idea he was into that, mind sharing some links?

                                            1. 2

                                              Cody Wilson Philosophy, Part I is the first of a two part series.

                                              Why I printed a gun is short and sweet; but, doesn’t get too deep.

                                        1. 3

                                          For your submission What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

                                          I suggested removing cogsci, and it should probably have the label datascience. This is because the article isn’t really cognitive science research in part because it doesn’t attribute the findings to cognition. It would take more research to see if it was cognitive, or social, or cultural. If the findings held for example in China vs the US. The label of cogsci is therefore misleading, and I would personally feel a “culture” label would also be putting words in the authors mouth. Datascience is probably the most correct label.

                                          1. 1

                                            I agree with your analysis–could @pushcx or @Irene take a look at this and fix it for me? :)

                                          1. 4

                                            Interesting article with some insights I wouldn’t have expected. For example, that of the “hardcore” gamer group, women tended to score higher than men on the “completion” aspect and just as high on “power.”

                                            This may just be that, as a whole, women tend to score higher across the board, whereas men are more likely to focus on a few areas and be less interested in others (my personal profile is quite extreme in this way).

                                            1. 5

                                              Yep. I think it’s useful information for anybody who wants to work on game designs that encourage a healthy mix of players.

                                              1. 1

                                                Why did you use a link shortener on that link?

                                                1. 1

                                                  So I could track who clicks on the link, of course! /s

                                                  The website gives a shortened link to share by default, so that’s what I copied.

                                              1. 0

                                                This is good to know, but having news of outages here is not going to increase the quality of Lobsters.

                                                1. 12

                                                  I find this to be valuable information. I was not aware that by sharing source code on github/gitlab, I might be excluding people from the listed countries from accessing my code. Similarly, this seems to be relevant news for any lobste.rs users from those countries. (Or does lobste.rs not allow readers from Iran or Cuba itself?)

                                                  Certainly labelling this as an “outage” is disingenuous.

                                                  1. 12

                                                    this isn’t about outages

                                                    1. 14

                                                      It three things:

                                                      1. A business announcement saying they’ll get some benefits switching cloud providers. People change providers all the time for arbitrary reasons.

                                                      2. A warning about a planned outage of some services during a maintenance window. These are common during big changes. Gitlab’s customers should be following their site for such information.

                                                      3. A reminder some freedom/crypto-hating, police states might block some software (eg theirs). Like they always do.

                                                      I agree with friendlysock. Just noise. This prior submission is an example for Gitlab of a write-up with more technical depth that teaches us stuff we might use. That kind of stuff is our differentiator here.

                                                      1. 5

                                                        If a service stops being available it’s an outage–whether due to legal reasons or not.

                                                        If we had a submission here every time a law threatened a services availability we’d have no time for the sort of content that’s usually here.

                                                        1. 9

                                                          […] we’d have no time for the sort of content that’s usually here.

                                                          I don’t know your perspective of lobste.rs’ typical content, but recently my usual experience here is that whenever I enter a comment thread for a topic that interests me, there is a comment by you claiming that this sort of content doesn’t belong on this site.

                                                          1. 4

                                                            We had a discussion to define what the site was about. There were a lot of opinions. I thought friendlysock had the best baseline here. As said in that comment, people wanting those kinds of articles and discussions have plenty of places to get them. Hacker News and Reddit often have the same ones. Lobsters can copycat them with all their strengths and weaknesses or have its own strengths and weaknesses.

                                                            We often have more technical depth with low noise here than most other places I see. We occasionally get management, academic, or political stuff that’s actionable with detailed analyses, too. I say we stay on that instead of fluff that other sites have. Even if it’s important to you, it’s redundant: you can just get that stuff from places where it’s already at with Lobsters adding something different to your overall set of feeds.

                                                            1. 3

                                                              If you’d like to share with the rest of us in a top-level comment what you found interesting about this submission, I would hope it would generate some positive discussion.

                                                              What did you find interesting about this topic?

                                                            2. 3

                                                              I think the two comments you made here would be better if you had combined them in to a single comment and spent more time describing your claim of this submission being off-topic. I’d also have welcomed you dwelling longer on the quality of the content that’s usually here.

                                                        1. 4

                                                          Excellent writeup. This sort of thing is why schlub requires users to specify the precision of calculations that they want to go into, so the interpreter/compiler can pick the correct numerical backend.

                                                          EDIT: For another bit of weirdness, recall that floating point addition is not always associative. Always consider adding up all your floats littlest to largest for maximum freshness.

                                                          1. 1

                                                            I like the writeup and tour! That said, Im willing to bet that you can replace most of those things with Postgres or some other database, at least for a couple of years, and get away with it.

                                                            1. 15

                                                              I’m not particularly thrilled with either the tone or content of this essay.

                                                              First, there’s some revisionism:

                                                              The first reason that WebAssembly is different is that it’s succeeded, and those technologies did not.

                                                              The essay goes on to redefine “success” in some super-niche way and qualify it, but this is rhetorically dishonest. I might as well write in an essay that “The first reason I disagree with them is that @steveklabnik is a fascist” and then go on to explain that by that I mean a fascist who supports government control of resources and careful policing of speech…sure, under that tortured definition I am both consistent and not wrong, but you wouldn’t be faulted for observing that I’m not right either.

                                                              They were never standardized, and that matters a lot.

                                                              JVM was never standardized.

                                                              Flash was not built on ES3/ES4 standards.

                                                              Unfortunately, just because something is standardized and went through the wringer doesn’t mean it isn’t hot steaming garbage.

                                                              If you built an applet in one of these technologies, you didn’t really build a web application […] You lost all of the benefits of other web technologies; you lost HTML, you lost CSS, you lost the accessibility built into the web.

                                                              Most of those features didn’t exist when Java applets first came out in 1995. Most of the useful stuff that Flash was good at didn’t exist in browsers for most of the 00’s. The essay is trying to sell you on a state of history that didn’t exist in any meaningful way.

                                                              “Don’t break the web” is a very, very important rule for browser vendors.

                                                              “…unless it gets you marketshare” is the rest of the sentence that the author leaves out. Browser vendors (and hell, let’s be real here: we mean Google, Apple, Microsoft, and that’s basically it these days) break things all the time and don’t care. https://caniuse.com/ is a monument to this fact.

                                                              Then there’s seeming misunderstanding about how browser development works:

                                                              These companies have significant motive to make profit, not to make the web better.

                                                              “Making profit” is how IE managed to deliver the first working version of CSS. Similarly, how they delivered a little thing called XMLHttpRequest, a small api with passing utility later adopted by every other browser manufacturer.

                                                              Google Chrome delivered lots of neat features ahead of standardization specifically so they could feed the ad machine. And Mozilla happily rode those coattails for a good long time.

                                                              I think the notion of “let’s make the web better” ultimately–intentionally or not–boils down to “let’s serve ads better”, once you look at things in context.

                                                              …and how companies work…

                                                              WebAssembly is a joint venture between Mozilla, Google, Apple, Microsoft, and others. It’s not trying to push anyone’s particular platform, but instead represents the shared interests of a wide number of stakeholders, both corporate and individual.

                                                              So, two ad-driven companies, a company known specifically for locking-down platforms (and goofing around in standards and industry groups if one’s familiar with OpenGL or the development of the Cell processor), and a company who is switching to moving as much of their stuff into the cloud–where it can be taxed and leased to users without fear of reprisal. I see why they might want to support WASM.

                                                              …and how maintenance works…

                                                              It’s hard enough to maintain one runtime, let alone two. And then how do you integrate them?

                                                              Runtimes don’t all need to be integrated, and we handily managed to keep the runtimes for JVM and Flash maintained for more than a decade, by letting interested parties support them.

                                                              …and how language proliferation and the Tower of Babel work…

                                                              Do we really want to christen one language as the next language of the web? We already have JavaScript. Are we someday going to introduce a third language? A fourth? An agnostic approach is significantly better for longevity’s sake.

                                                              Picking one language is better for longevity’s sake. Standardization–the shibboleth touched on here and there in this essay–would suggest that we take one language and adopt and update it as needed.

                                                              Wasm, as I rallied about many a time, is likely to make frontend dev skills even less portable than they already are. It’s an opportunity to let language writers and well-meaning developers rediscover every mistake in their language and find some way of introducing it into the browser and then saddling devs with their shortcomings!

                                                              …and how security works.

                                                              Wasm is missing some features of regular assembly language that can cause security vulnerabilities, like stack smashing. Wasm is memory-safe, which is huge!

                                                              And yet it directly enables malware and side-channel attacks, while it’s proponents kinda ignore the issue and forge ahead.

                                                              ~

                                                              We’re all going to be stuck with the outcome of this, and folks promoting the technology for their own career advancement or aesthetics are doing so, seemingly to me, without enough care for the ramifications of what they’re pushing.

                                                              EDIT: Cleanups to soften this up a bit…my annoyance got in the way of my politeness.

                                                              EDIT: Removed many “actually”’s in various headers, since I read them in my head as “well ak-shu-alee”

                                                              1. 23

                                                                I’m going to give you one reply, but that’s it; we have such a divergence of opinion so often that I don’t feel like we’re really going to agree, but I would like to respond to some things.

                                                                The essay goes on to redefine “success” in some super-niche way and qualify it, but this is rhetorically dishonest.

                                                                I tried to be super clear here that this is from an implementor’s perspective. Success in this context means “becoming part of the web platform.” I don’t feel that’s dishonest, it’s about being clear about exactly what I’m trying to talk about.

                                                                JVM was never standardized.

                                                                That’s a specification, not a standard.

                                                                Flash was not built on ES3/ES4 standards.

                                                                “built on” does not mean “conforms with”; ActionScript and ECMAScript are similar, but different.

                                                                Unfortunately, just because something is standardized and went through the wringer doesn’t mean it isn’t hot steaming garbage.

                                                                This is true, but that’s why I qualified what this post is about. The user’s perspective is something else entirely.

                                                                Most of those features didn’t exist when Java applets first came out in 1995.

                                                                CSS was in development at the time, and shipped in 1996, it’s true. But regardless of the start, that kept being true. They could have added support, but they did not. It’s effectively the same.

                                                                https://caniuse.com/ is a monument to this fact.

                                                                CanIUse, to me, is more about when you can adopt new features. They ship in different browsers at different times, but eventually, a lot of stuff is the same. Crossplatform web development has never been easier.

                                                                Runtimes don’t all need to be integrated, and we handily managed to keep the runtimes for JVM and Flash maintained for more than a decade, by letting interested parties support them.

                                                                Yet they still were full of vulnerabilities. This was due to the disconnect I talk about in the article. It also doesn’t address the inherent complexity in coordinating two runtimes compared to one.

                                                                enables malware

                                                                This was already possible with JS, wasm doesn’t fundamentally change things here

                                                                and side-channel attacks,

                                                                This article is clickbait nonsense. It says that this could happen, but ignores that everyone involved with WebAssembly is acutely aware of these issues, and is not moving forward until they’re addressed. Heck, before Meltdown/Spectre was announced, I was in a room with one of the main designers of WebAssembly, and someone brought up SharedArrayBuffer for some reason. He said “yeah so you shouldn’t rely on that and I can’t talk about why”. Then we all found out why.

                                                                You’re letting your disdain bias you against the facts.

                                                                while it’s proponents kinda ignore the issue and forge ahead.

                                                                TC39 is not the body that standardizes WebAssembly.

                                                                We’re all going to be stuck with the outcome of this, and folks promoting the technology for their own career advancement or aesthetics are doing so, seemingly to me, without enough care for the ramifications of what they’re pushing.

                                                                This kind of slander is why I rarely post to lobste.rs anymore. I’m out.

                                                                1. 2

                                                                  This was already possible with JS, wasm doesn’t fundamentally change things here

                                                                  It makes things easier, and the general increase in performance allows more interesting and obtrusive categories of malware than we saw with JS.

                                                                  Heck, before Meltdown/Spectre was announced, I was in a room with one of the main designers of WebAssembly, and someone brought up SharedArrayBuffer for some reason.

                                                                  There’s no sane way to have multiple threads and shared memory primitives of which I’m aware that don’t enable timing attacks at this time. The option seems to be to remove them entirely, and the Github link shows that at least a few people are hesitant to do that.

                                                                  TC39 is not the body that standardizes WebAssembly.

                                                                  Thank you for the correction–I don’t know if there is a lot of bleedover between the groups. If there is, my concern remains.

                                                                  This kind of slander is why I rarely post to lobste.rs anymore. I’m out.

                                                                  That’s my honest opinion, slander wasn’t my intent. This pattern is being repeated everywhere in our industry. If you don’t think it applies in your case, please correct me.

                                                                  1. 12

                                                                    That’s my honest opinion, slander wasn’t my intent.

                                                                    Making an unsubstantiated accusation in a public forum is slander, even if you happen to believe the accusation to be true.

                                                                    And to be clear, you accused promoters of wasm of self-interestedly putting career/aesthetics above the common good. You made no allowance for the idea that they might actually have decent reasons for believing and acting as they do. If they disagree with you on wasm, then they are simply a bad person.

                                                                    Putting all of that behind a “it seems to me” doesn’t actually change what you are saying. If you meant something else, I strongly suggest rewording. If not, then please don’t post such attacks on Lobsters.

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                                                                      Please consider the original phrasing–there’s a reason I picked it:

                                                                      We’re all going to be stuck with the outcome of this, and folks promoting the technology for their own career advancement or aesthetics are doing so, seemingly to me, without enough care for the ramifications of what they’re pushing.

                                                                      I state one thing as fact: we’re stuck with the outcome of the wasm debate.

                                                                      I state the rest as opinion: the set of people promoting the technology, who are doing so for their own career advancement or aesthetics, seem to be doing so without enough care for the ramifications of widespread wasm adoption it seems to me.

                                                                      There is a much more direct way of slandering people if that’d been my goal.

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                                                                        Sidestepping the question of whether it’s slander: it’s non-constructive and counterproductive to speculate about the intentions and motivations of the people you are discussing with. It’s poisoning the well.

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                                                                      That’s my honest opinion

                                                                      It’s an accusation, not a matter of opinion.

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                                                                    Browser vendors (and hell, let’s be real here: we mean Google, Apple, Microsoft, and that’s basically it these days)

                                                                    I’m sure you know you’re writing to a Mozilla employee. Does saying “you’re not even a real browser vendor” really help your argument?

                                                                    (I’ve worked at Mozilla. Loved it, but competing against some of the largest and most well-funded corporations in the world is hard, and it can be frustrating to see what they get away with. Jabs like this pile up and demoralize you.)

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                                                                      In my haste I plain forgot to list Mozilla. One of many glaring oversights I’ve made today.

                                                                      That said, my point is that there are really only 4 vendors that matter, since the vast, vast majority of browsers are powered using one of 3 or 4 engines.

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                                                                        That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

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                                                                    That’s quite neat! Congrats. :)

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                                                                      I have a half-formed idea in my head, based on reading this and a lot of other things, so I might as well post:

                                                                      You can’t run a society with only nice people. Not that you need to be not-nice to run a society, although that might also be the case, but that there’s no consistent set of nice people in the world, both as society changes and what was nice becomes not-nice and vice-versa, and, more importantly, as people exist and are people and bounce off each other and leave bruises in that bouncing. Nobody’s perceived as nice all the time, regardless of their intentions, and the Fundamental Attribution Error (“I did that because I had a bad day, they did that because they’re fundamentally shitty people we must now shun forever.”) fundamentally guarantees that good faith will not always be assumed.

                                                                      You might be able to hold organizations to higher standards, if you realize that organizations don’t have morals, they have interests, which might not always align with yours. Not understanding that leads you into errors like thinking the ACLU is fundamentally opposed to Christians: They’ve defended Christians in the past, and will do so in the future, but they’ve also not taken the side of Christians. The ACLU’s stance is very consistent, but if you view the world in terms of Christian/Anti-Christian or Nice/Not-Nice or any other single axis, and won’t budge, it seems either random or evil.

                                                                      All the echo chambers are open. The center cannot hold, and mere Not-Niceness is loosed upon the world.

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                                                                        I don’t think I’d talk about ICE or the US Military as people who are just “not nice”

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                                                                          Painting in broad strokes and without acknowledgment of context and history is not a good way to have a conversation.

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                                                                        Steve could also be ruthless with his feedback. In my first meeting with him to present what I had been working on (which was held on a Saturday morning), he looked at the demo for 5 minutes and told me I had “ruined NeXTSTEP” (the software platform).

                                                                        What a garbage human being. I’m glad he’s dead–he promoted toxic culture and practices that as a sector we’re all still working to purge.

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                                                                          I strongly recommend Pirates of Silicon Valley if you want to see more of their personalities. Wozniak says it’s the only one that depicts them accurately. Here’s clips of jobs.

                                                                          Regarding OP, the next thing he does is go on stage getting applauded for others’ work. Bill Burr did my favorite standup on Steve Jobs talking about that. It applies to a lot of other leaders in the tech industry, too.

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                                                                            Both the TV movie and the book it’s based on, Fire in the Valley, are quite wonderful.

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                                                                              “I GOT THE LOOT, STEVE!”

                                                                              I love that movie.

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                                                                              Somehow, when it comes to Jobs, “I’m glad he’s dead” is more appropriate coming from friendlysock than from angersock.

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                                                                                He almost ran me over once, on his way to park his Mercedes across two handicapped spaces. I’m glad that bitch is on ice.

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                                                                                Suing abandonware archives is too meanly. Personally I found Nintendo franchises like all these marios and zeldas as disgusting as Hollywood stuff. They had done lots of aggressive marketing in social networks recently to ensure “geek culture” is associated with their silly characters targeted to 5-year-old kids. I hope if all these ROMs would be removed from internets, this will lower popularity of Nintendo brands.

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                                                                                  It’s not abandonware when they’re maintaining their titles for virtual console on recent platforms. It’s not targeted at just 5-year-olds, it’s family entertainment that plenty of adults enjoy. Your comparison with Hollywood is far-fetched, and the adjectives you use are very trollish.

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                                                                                    when they’re maintaining their titles for virtual console

                                                                                    Except they’re not? On a switch only VC Mario title is an arcade one. No Zelda except BOTW (the latest one). DS Zelda titles are only available second-hand as cartridges.

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                                                                                      They’re available on the 3DS VC. I’ve been playing through them all. And I’m in my thirties, FWIW. :)

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                                                                                        This was not the case at one point if memory serves. It is also no guarantee going forward.

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                                                                                          I think the point that people have been making is that Nintendo had no interest in re-releasing these games until they discovered how popular they were in the ROM scene and second hand markets.

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                                                                                    I stopped reading at “I occasionally do freelance work, in the past I couldn’t afford to pick my clients, which means I saw my fair share of dissociative identity disorder and ADHD cases.”

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                                                                                      In slightly poor taste, but not entirely unfair descriptions of some client behaviors.