1. 32

    I don’t see why this progress bar should be obnoxiously put at the top of the page. It’s cool if you wanna do a donation drive but don’t push it in the face of everybody who comes here. Honestly at first I thought this was a bar for site expense. Then I realised it’s to ‘adopt’ an emoji.

    1. 7

      Lobsters isn’t a daily visit for most readers, probably even for most users. They can’t see it to join in if there isn’t anything visible for it, and it has an id for adblocking if you prefer not to see it.

      1. 22

        Personally a check this site quite regularly on my mobile device… which doesn’t have an ad-blocker.

        1. 12

          That sounds awful. If you’re an android user, normal uBlock Origin works on Firefox for Android just like it does on desktop. :)

          1.  

            Or use Block This!, which blocks ads in all apps.

            1.  

              Oh, that’s a cool little tool. Using a local VPN to intercept DNS is a neat trick. Unfortunately doesn’t help with in this case because it blocks requests to domains and not elements on a page via CSS selectors.

              That does make me want to actually figure out my VPN to home for my phone and setup a pi-hole, though.

            2.  

              Ohh! Good to know, thanks.

            3.  

              Firefox 57+ has integrated adblocker nowadays, on both desktop and mobile; plus, there’s also Brave.

            4. 27

              That is still annoying that I need to setup my adblocker to fix lobste.rs. So much for all the rant articles about bad UX/UI in here.

              1. 11

                maybe one could just add a dismiss button or sometimes like that? I don’t find it that annoying, but I guess it would be a pretty simple solution.

                1.  

                  I concur, either a client side cookie or session variable.

                  1.  

                    Well, yeah… that’s how you could implement it, and I guess that would be the cleanest and simplest way?

                2.  

                  It’d be great to see data about that! Personally I visit daily or at least 3 times a week. Lack of clutter and noise is one of the biggest advantages of Lobsters. And specifically, I looked at the link, and I have no idea who this Unicode organization is, or their charitable performance, or even if they need the money. I’d imagine they are mostly funded by the rich tech megacorps?

                  1.  

                    [citation needed] ;-)

                  2.  

                    Adopting an emoji isn’t the end goal: the money goes to Unicode, which is a non-profit organization that’s very important to the Internet.

                    1. 5

                      If this bar actually significantly annoys you, I’m surprised you haven’t literally died from browsing the rest of the internet.

                    1. 3

                      I’m so glad I moved to my own domain, own email, own calendar, own contacts, own backup, own you-name-it server. I replaced every conceivable cloud provider that I was consuming and to this day I am very glad that I took the time to do it because it’s shit like this that I get to chuckle at.

                      I highly encourage anyone who depends on any cloud provider to ask yourself this: do I like the service I’m being provided? Are there alternatives I could run myself? It’s questions like these that led me to obtain the experience I needed to land a job.

                      1. 1

                        Could you expand?

                        Where do you host your services? How much time did it take for you to set it up? How much maintenance does it need? Also did you have any problems with mobile?

                        Lately outside of mail I’m thinking about photos hosting. I would like to tag photos and a camera icons dedicated to certain tags.

                        1. 2

                          Sorry, let me clarify one point: I do rely on one cloud provider: DigitalOcean. I run my email, contacts, and calendar services within a droplet on DigitalOcean. I routinely have backups scpd from the VPS to my local machine which has a 8 TB RAID setup, which is where I backup other things as well. I also run my own webdav service which allows me to sync up documents between my laptop and iPhone.

                          I could technically avoid the reliance on DigitalOcean if I purchased my own hardware and placed it into a colocated datacenter, but that would be costly, and it kind of goes a bit beyond the idea of no cloud provider dependency. I’m fine with relying on DigitalOcean because I know that I have backups in case I need to switch to a different provider.

                          I also purchase CDs and import them to iTunes then sync them onto my iPhone. The frustrations of dealing with bad LTE coverage led me to make this choice a long time ago, and I’ve been happy ever since.

                          1. 1

                            I am on fastmail and it works just fine. Comes with mail, contacts, calendar and cloud storage.

                            1. 1

                              But that’s not what OP meant, is it? Replacing one provider with another is not “my own domain, own email, own calendar, own contacts, own backup, own you-name-it server”. Also he said: “I replaced every conceivable cloud provider”.

                              1. 1

                                I think there is a big difference between fastmail and google, namely that fastmail is not an ad company and you pay for your mail/calendar etc.

                        1. 3

                          RackSpace still uses it, and they’re a relatively large service provider similar to AWS (in their offerings, not userbase).

                          1. 1

                            Rackspace is now also an AWS/Azure/GoogleCloud consulting company. They seem to have given up on the direct competition part.

                          1. 12

                            I never understood the popularity of solarized. It lacks contrast and makes my eyes hurt.

                            1. 12

                              There was a blog post which said it was made with science or whatever. Science can’t be wrong.

                              1. 3

                                The implication that the goodness of something so subjective can be quantified really irks me. However, I think a lot of people ate this up, as I’ve seen people non-ironically citing this as a reason it is good.

                                1. 3
                                  1. 2

                                    I hear it’s Cave Johnson’s favorite IDE color scheme.

                                  2. 5

                                    I’m more and more in favour of highlighting comments more than the individual parts in the code (variables, strings, …) – and I find that comments often have the least contrast :(

                                    1. 2

                                      In Visual Studio Code you can quite easily try this out since you can add your own customizations to the highlighting in the settings. For instance, you could add

                                          "editor.tokenColorCustomizations": {
                                              "comments": "#e1a866"
                                          }
                                      

                                      to change the color of all comments.

                                    2. 1

                                      I think it depends a lot on lighting. I use the dark theme at evening/night, and don’t have a lot of light in the room. More contrast rich themes like Monokai hurt my eyes in that setting.

                                      The Solarized theme that comes with Visual Studio Code actually uses a base color with more contrast than the original design. But I find that rather annoying in the light theme, especially since they also use bold.

                                      1. 2

                                        More contrast rich themes like Monokai hurt my eyes in that setting.

                                        That makes sense. It’s funny, at night I will continue using typical white-on-black high-contrast color schemes but just drop the monitor brightness a lot if I happen to be hacking away in the dark. Usually I just turn the lights on, though.

                                        1. 1

                                          For me both variants of Solarized are difficult to read in the daytime on a nice display and borderline unusable at any time of day on a low-end display. On the other hand, I find high-contrast dark themes too harsh, so I tend to use dark themes that are somewhere in the middle (~#999 on ~#222) and higher-contrast light themes (~#222 on ~#f5f5f5).

                                          1. 1

                                            gruvbox dark works well for me :)

                                            1. 2

                                              I think the red is perhaps, well, a bit too red in gruvbox. The (over-)use of red/orange/pink in many Solarized themes was part of the reason I made this variant.

                                              Darktooth is another interesting gruvbox-like theme.

                                        2. 1

                                          Agree on the importance of contrast. Lots of color themes are happy to use tons of different colors on things that aren’t completely semantically different (a numeric literal doesn’t always need to stand out a lot) while ignoring the more subtle details such as contrast.

                                          I want the attention to detail Solarized has, but with more contrast, and something besides an ocean or a piece of parchment as the background. I’ve been using a version of Github’s color scheme in my editor for awhile, but have yet to really find a color theme that I really like.

                                        1. 1

                                          Fiction: The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen

                                          1. 22

                                            Virtually all of them

                                            Dumping stuff in $HOME. Really?

                                            There is a dedicated folder, .cache (or $XDG_CACHE_DIR), and pretty much all tools chose to ignore it:

                                            Maven, Ivy, Cabal, SBT, Cargo, Gem, Bundler (congrats on adding two dirs to my $HOME), …

                                            It’s come to the point where half of my dot folders are things dumped why various build tools.

                                            As a consequence, I have made my $HOME dir read-only, and aggressively file bugs against any applications that fail running.

                                            1. 3

                                              Cargo is working on this! I agree that it’s annoying that they don’t follow XDG. However, I don’t think that XDG is really much of a thing outside of freedesktop-esque operating systems - pretty much anything that isn’t Linux or Mach/Hurd. Obviously Windows doesn’t fall into this, but I can’t comment on macOS or any of the BSDs because I don’t use them.

                                              1. 3

                                                The point is to follow the applicable standards of the respective operating system, not roll your own thing that is wrong on all of them.

                                                There are well-published standards for Windows, macOS and Linux that need to be followed by library and application authors.

                                                Heck, I wrote a Rust library that provides the right paths to libraries/applications in a day or two. It’s not hard, developers just have to care about it and respect their users. Sadly, more often than not, their program is the most important thing, special, and doesn’t need to follow any platform rules.

                                              2. 2

                                                I think the java tools are older than the XDG spec, so they cannot be blamed for not respecting something that was invented later. Now they have to be backwards compatible of course..

                                                1. 3

                                                  They can be blamed at the point when XDG came into existence, and much earlier for their lack of respect of Windows and macOS rules.

                                                  It’s not hard to implement a solution that seamlessly migrates to the standard without disturbing existing usages.

                                                2. 1

                                                  ls -a ~/ on my work machine = instant anxiety pangs. a terrible practice that unfortunately seems to be sustained out of pure habit.

                                                  1. 2

                                                    That’s why I made it read-only. There will never be more dot files in my $HOME than I have now, only fewer.

                                                    This month I deleted .nano and .coursier. Another two gone. :-)

                                                  1. 1

                                                    Why? Note: That’s the official channel, not some third party rip.

                                                    1. 1

                                                      Because it’s not youtube. Some people prefer not being tracked.

                                                  1. 2

                                                    Doctors without borders does good work, I donate regularly.

                                                    1. 6

                                                      It’s a curiosity to me that people using Vagrant in 2017 continue to use the “precise64” image. It’s Ubuntu 12.04 - a release from 5 1/2 years ago.

                                                      1. 5

                                                        Mind you that is EOL since April 2017. A few years ago when I was using Vagrant one knew to use Trusty (14.04 LTS) or Xenial (16.04 LTS) just to have something reasonably current. Now it’s a matter of security patches, 6 CVEs since April.

                                                        1. 3

                                                          The official docs still refer to it, that is probably why.

                                                          1. 1

                                                            Yes, that is why. Some of the available boxes lack installed guest additions, which is necessary for synced folders. Guest additions isn’t too hard to install, but I figured I would go with a box that I knew already had guest additions installed. It was just something I wanted to avoid during the post.

                                                            At work we use CentOS 7, and it lacked guest additions so I had to take the time to build a new version of the CentOS 7 box with guest additions installed.

                                                            1. 1

                                                              I use our own debian boxes for most work, but there should be bento boxes for most major distros/versions.

                                                              There should be very little need for “end users” to build their own boxes from scratch.

                                                          2. 2

                                                            Because hashicorp/precise64 used to be the only hashicorp box supporting the most important providers, and the corresponding pull request has been closed without actually updating the docs later.

                                                            https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant/pull/8817

                                                          1. 2

                                                            Could it be, that Linus is not the evil abuser that people paint him like? gasp

                                                            1. 22

                                                              I find this comment equally useless as the other reply I commented on.

                                                              It’s is very usual that people resorting to abuse regularly don’t do it all the time. It doesn’t make it less abusive.

                                                              Discuss the interpretation of Linus outbursts in all directions, but all these discussions have to happen in a wider context, not based on single emails. Linus is criticised for regular outburts, no one is saying that he’s like that all the time.

                                                              1. 2

                                                                The emails linked here (both post subject and the one linked by @pgl) paint a more nuanced picture than the one painted in the thread here. I find them interesting as I try to research the entire situation around the Linux kernel mailing list and Linus’ stewardship of the kernel development process.

                                                                Obviously if a public figure is abusive and contributes to a working environment that’s toxic, it’s a serious issue. Maybe doubly so when it’s a flagship open source product like the Linux kernel. I apologize if I sound as if I’m flippant and dismissive.

                                                                However, browsing through the comments in the previous thread I found a lot of speculation that this has harmed the kernel development process, made people less interested in contributing to open source, or generally being looked down upon. I did not find any links to actual first- or second-person accounts.

                                                                I realize that demanding such accounts may in itself be insensitive, however I’d prefer to judge Linus’ behavior based on them rather than unsourced speculation.

                                                                Edit I also realize that the speculation may in fact not be unsourced, but it’s in fact common knowledge (but unknown to me). If so, I should probably have just politely asked for links instead of attempting satire…

                                                                1. 21

                                                                  I was actually more annoyed by this comment then by yours. I was just seriously not understanding what you wanted to imply. Thank you for this elaborate answer, though, I’ll ramble in return.

                                                                  I totally appreciate that Linus has a lot of experience with a project at that scale. And this email here perfectly illustrates it. It’s stern. Stern is great. I think the proper feedback to give here would be “that’s a great email” and not immediately bring up the standard debate. What annoys me is that people criticising specific Linus behaviour are painted like they can’t appreciate a good word from Linus or are just enraged by anything. This is also done by bringing up this debate in unrelated places. No, often, criticism comes from people that invest a lot of time in FOSS project management, too. I’ve lost more then one contributor on projects I was involved in because some project lead jumped on them in fashions like Linus does, some specifically citing the Linus way. That’s why I take a lot of care about communication nowadays, especially over mediums that detach you from the speaker, such as email.

                                                                  What gets me: Linus is also not the only person in such a position. It’s often postulated that his position is singular. It isn’t. There’s an ample amount of very nice people that pulled off similarly huge projects that pull a lot of weight. Matz, Knuth, Lamport, Larry Wall. And doing a thousand good things does not earn you the privilege of being an ass from time to time. That’s a classic abuse pattern that gets enabled by not pushing back when people cross boundaries.

                                                                  The proper feedback to Linus outbreaks would therefore be “Linus, most of the work is great, but this is a boundary crossed”. That doesn’t mean immediately breaking ties or such, but now, Linus has shown that this is his habit and he wants it that way.

                                                                  The fact that Linus felt the need to apologise in this case speaks for the people criticising his outburst at first. Maybe, things change? I’d be happy about it.

                                                                  He inflicts a lot of harm with random outburts to people. Googles mangagement research in the recent years found that safety is important for creativity and a good work environment. Safety specifically doesn’t mean freedom from critcism, or even anger. But there are lines that should not be crossed, one of them being that you don’t call for people to be “retroactively aborted” (essentially wishing their death). This is an unambigous, spitting insult in all cultures on this planet and no way to treat contributors. I’m amazed of the number of people still defending such things. There’s perfectly fine ways to express anger without going on a rampage.

                                                                  Retreating to “Finnish management style” also doesn’t cut it, unless you work with a project exclusively staffed by with finnish people.

                                                                  I wonder where the idea that this discussion is just theory comes from. People have publicly left kernel development because of the nature of debate in the project, which comes from top, the most prominent example being Sage Sharp: http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/05/closing-a-door/. There’s other accounts around, from people like Matthew Garrett and others. There’s ample number of people that specifically say they avoid Linus if possible, ask a couple of people on conferences. Expecting people to rehash all of those whenever the subject comes up again is also problematic. Also, word-of-mouth is a thing, because criticising Linus in a public space might yield with your inbox getting emails like this. You know how no one talks about the bad managers in a company in public, but once you go to a bar with some colleagues, they start talking? Same effect.

                                                                  This thing is real. I am convinced that Linux would be better if they had better communication from top. This whole situation would be much better if Linus would have written just this email and not the other one. Then again, I’m not part of the Linux kernel, I have no say there. If things should change, its the crew around him that must do that.

                                                                  1. 8

                                                                    I want to put this comment in a golden frame and show it to everyone who thinks Linus should totally be hurling insults.

                                                                    1. 6

                                                                      Thanks a lot of this extensive reply. It’s given me a lot to think about and read up on.

                                                                      1. 5

                                                                        Thanks for prompting it :).

                                                                    2. 10

                                                                      I have several friends who quit kernel development because of the culture on LKML in general, and Linus specifically; they are some of the most talented folks I know. One of their friends quit doing upstream kernel security work and now sells vulnerabilities to semi-shady semi-government organizations.

                                                                1. 8

                                                                  Next up: a complete flight simulator inside cat

                                                                  1. 24

                                                                    Or a text editor within emacs!

                                                                    1. 16

                                                                      Or a text editor within emacs!

                                                                      It’s been done: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil

                                                                    2. 8

                                                                      You jest, but I only realised in the last year that cat can read from unix sockets as well as files. (I was reimplementing it to learn a new language and read the manpage carefully.) Never realised/knew that before.

                                                                      1. 4

                                                                        well, bash can read from a tcp socket too:

                                                                        exec 3<>/dev/tcp/lobste.rs/80
                                                                        echo -e "GET /\r\n" >&3
                                                                        cat <&3
                                                                        
                                                                        1. 4

                                                                          A similar feature is also implemented in GNU awk - and someone wrote a web server for it.

                                                                          1. 2

                                                                            That’s fascinating. That’s so new to me, I don’t even know how to look that up. Could you give me some more info about what’s going on there? Also, it interestingly doesn’t work on the Mac (it just crashes my terminal ¯_(ツ)_/¯). I suppose it could be because of an outdated version of bash, but, again, I can’t even look that up.

                                                                          2. 2

                                                                            That is cool, I never knew that and kept using socat. Will try cat the next time.

                                                                          3. 1

                                                                            I read that as “a complete flight simulator inside a cat”, I was worried you were some kind of mad scientist.

                                                                            1. 1

                                                                              I thought I’d created something great for the world, a flight simulator inside a cat! But little did I know, I’d created a flying man-eating MONSTER!!

                                                                          1. 1

                                                                            I tried to switch back using the nightly channel. Loved it for a few days when it would start up in under a minute with a couple of thousand tabs open (but not loaded). Then after a few days it started leaking memory and filling up the whole disk in a few minutes causing forced reboots.

                                                                            1. 3

                                                                              Probably a bug in nightly. I’ve had some issues in that direction (and video decoding) but it’s been recently fixed and isn’t as bad anymore.

                                                                              I think it’s probably not a bad idea to switch to Beta or Release with 57.

                                                                              1. 2

                                                                                couple of thousand tabs open

                                                                                how do you work with that?

                                                                                1. 2

                                                                                  I’ve done that too, you simply have a lot of swap (+100GiB) and put everything you don’t need on a distant virtual desktop.

                                                                                  1. 5

                                                                                    But why?

                                                                                    1. 4

                                                                                      If I can do it, what reason is there not to do it?

                                                                                      1. -5

                                                                                        mental illness

                                                                                        1. 21

                                                                                          That kind of remark is absolutely inappropriate here. I’m leaving it up for transparency, but don’t repeat it.

                                                                                          Specifically this was a highly personal insult (which also happens to be ableist), with no provocation.

                                                                                          1. 0

                                                                                            I’d hardly view it as highly personal, or particularly insulting, or ableist. Feel free to not think having multiple thousands of tabs open is crazy. It’s not like I actually think less of junkblocker or something for having a lot of tabs.

                                                                                    2. 1

                                                                                      It is a usecase Firefox has paid much attention to in their performance work. It’s like a temporary to-read list that I hope to get to sometime soon :)

                                                                                  1. 2

                                                                                    That last panel had me laughing so loud. Glad I work from home and nobody can hear that. :-D

                                                                                      1. 2

                                                                                        account suspended. what was that?

                                                                                        1. 4

                                                                                          The tweet was two screenshots.

                                                                                          One of Twitter user @KrangTNelson tweeting (paraphrased) “No thanks, I only get my crypto tips from the guy who made garfield”.

                                                                                          The second was a screenshot of Scott Adams Twitter account showing he had blocked Krang.

                                                                                          No idea why Krang was banned.

                                                                                          1. 1

                                                                                            Best guess is a parody tweet promising “antifa super-soldiers” on November 4th, which some strange people took seriously and complained about. His account’s been restored.

                                                                                        1. 2

                                                                                          Can the tag be changed to something like “unix” instead of “devops”?

                                                                                          1. 2

                                                                                            Use the ‘suggest’ feature: https://lobste.rs/stories/xpgpdi/suggest

                                                                                            1. 1

                                                                                              People have to submit the exact same title and tags a couple times for suggestions to take effect. That consensus didn’t happen because of the title change (didn’t have ‘GNU’) and a differing opinion on whether it should have programming or not. (Not, it’s really just a fallback when no other tag applies.)

                                                                                          1. 3

                                                                                            Rather than using a dedicated electron tag (which means we’d need a per framework tag), why don’t we have a generic tag for things made with web app technologies in fat apps - a fatweb tag?

                                                                                            The fatweb tag could cover anything made with fat webapp tech, including cordova/phonegap etc.

                                                                                            1. 2

                                                                                              The fatweb tag could cover anything made with fat webapp tech, including cordova/phonegap etc.

                                                                                              Do those technology ever get posted and are they as controversial as electron is?

                                                                                              1. 25

                                                                                                wait, it has 17 upvotes (if one is to believe the archived version) and then got deleted?

                                                                                                edit: and the “hate post” self-description was clearly sarcasm. even a non native speaker can see that. can we pretty please just use the voting system for moderation except for extreme cases (like, real hate speech)?

                                                                                                1. 34

                                                                                                  Yeah, I’m not immediately sure how I feel about this. I agree that the comment was low-value, but I also haven’t traditionally felt that my feeling alone should be sufficient justification to delete, in part because others might disagree. That’s never been how lobste.rs does things.

                                                                                                  I do acknowledge that without the accidental recursive deletion, the impact would have been lower, and of course that aspect of it was a one-off.

                                                                                                  Now that the technical migration is done, the new leadership team should all talk at some point about moderation philosophy and get on the same page.

                                                                                                  1. 13

                                                                                                    why was it low-value? just because of the wording? the title said “minimal”, and that is at least a bit hazy in its meaning. so saying that electron isn’t minimal is a valid point in the discussion. even with a grain of sarcasm.

                                                                                                    1. 7

                                                                                                      To me personally it was low-value because it took me a while to understand (might have been easier if I’d seen it while it was up and therefore the article’s subject matter in mind…), and because I didn’t feel that I got much out of it after putting in that effort. It was a valid and accurate criticism of Electron and of the article, without being a constructive one.

                                                                                                      It’s certainly legitimate to express feelings about the article and about Electron, and I appreciate that many people have strong feelings on technical subjects, and I wouldn’t ask anyone to suppress those feelings. I don’t think it’s something that shouldn’t have been said. But if I’d personally said something this short I’d have expected to be downvoted.

                                                                                                      My personal approach is that if I don’t have anything to add about how we got to this bad situation, or how we might get out of it, I just don’t say anything. This is out of respect for the time people spend reading this kind of remark, and with awareness that it takes time away from reading other pithy critiques. :) I do not consider it appropriate to enforce that on others though.

                                                                                                      1. 1

                                                                                                        My personal approach is that if I don’t have anything to add about how we got to this bad situation, or how we might get out of it, I just don’t say anything. This is out of respect for the time people spend reading this kind of remark, and with awareness that it takes time away from reading other pithy critiques.

                                                                                                        If it comes in the form a one-line comment less than twenty words long, I think the dear citizens of Lobsters will be able to stomach having your opinion fly across their screen without much hazard, no matter how non-substantive it is.

                                                                                                        1. 3

                                                                                                          That’s fair. I guess I over-emphasized concern for others’ reactions: Only saying things I consider worth saying is mostly a thing I do for myself.

                                                                                                    2. 9

                                                                                                      And, hopefully, have that moderation philosophy align with the people using the site!

                                                                                                      1. 17

                                                                                                        It does to be fair go in both directions to some extent, since moderation philosophies impact who you get on a site and vice versa. But it’s tricky here because it’s a change in moderation team. People signed up basically expecting the jcs+Irene brand of moderation, but it’s not clear the pushcx brand is the same as that one. I personally feel very comfortable with the previous two moderators, and if they wanted to become a bit more hands-on as the community grows, I wouldn’t be too worried, because I trust how they’ve moderated the site so far. But a new moderator becoming significantly more hands-on than the existing moderation team makes me more nervous.

                                                                                                        1. 4

                                                                                                          I can’t speak for pushcx; I’ve always considered that a constraint. I believe I’m on record with it, although I can’t find the comments right now.

                                                                                                        2. 5

                                                                                                          FWIW, I think that any shift in moderation philosophy isn’t necessarily bad - I just hope it’s something discussed openly as a meta post, considered thoughtfully, and implemented transparently. That transparency was one of the features that pulled many people here and I’d hate to see it change.

                                                                                                          1. 4

                                                                                                            It had a lot of value for me, it told me that it uses Electron, which I try to avoid. Just because something has low value for you does not mean it has low value for everybody.

                                                                                                            1. 0

                                                                                                              Yeah, I’m not immediately sure how I feel about this.

                                                                                                              I am: a censor abused his powers. In a just world, he would be forced to step down and suffer with the rest of us mortals. Fortunately for him, this is not a just world.

                                                                                                            2. 11

                                                                                                              Final count according to the author was 23 and -4

                                                                                                              1. 9

                                                                                                                Upvotes are not necessarily a good way to judge a comment. People are herd animals, and it’s easy to upvote. There is a type of post that optimizes for “time taken” and “upvotes received:” the “zinger.”

                                                                                                                1. 20

                                                                                                                  up/down votes are imho a clearly better moderation system than randomly deleting posts out of a mood.

                                                                                                                  1. 11

                                                                                                                    I don’t agree. Upvotes are very prone to herd movements and rarely express a useful policy in aggregates.

                                                                                                                    1. 7

                                                                                                                      Since we’re in meta territory here: I’ve found that the score hiding feature at least seems to weed out some of the herd tendencies.

                                                                                                                      Maybe we should look at adjusting the score visibility threshold up? Or keep the score hidden for a bit longer?

                                                                                                                      1. 8

                                                                                                                        maybe just don’t show the score except for the poster so the feedback is still there, but the herd effect doesn’t kick in

                                                                                                                      2. 3

                                                                                                                        but what’s a better alternative? at least with (down-)votes there is a feedback, maybe to better state a point via an edit. i always had the feeling the votes worked rather good here.

                                                                                                                        1. 5

                                                                                                                          This still doesn’t make them “clearly a better moderation system”. A mix of both is very usual and proven.

                                                                                                                          1. 5

                                                                                                                            This still doesn’t make them “clearly a better moderation system”.

                                                                                                                            like i’ve said: “imho”, but i have felt as i typed “clearly” that it would be a point of criticism for some.

                                                                                                                            A mix of both is very usual and proven.

                                                                                                                            to quote myself:

                                                                                                                            can we pretty please just use the voting system for moderation except for extreme cases (like, real hate speech)?

                                                                                                                  2. 1

                                                                                                                    can we pretty please just use the voting system for moderation except for extreme cases (like, real hate speech)?

                                                                                                                    And how is “real” “hate speech” defined? In reality, the term is just a catch-all excuse for censorship of various kinds.

                                                                                                                  3. 0

                                                                                                                    if this causes a “problem” in moderation lobste.rs is pretty much dead to me.

                                                                                                                  1. 5

                                                                                                                    I want to like it, but I constantly get confused by the mix of arrow key and hjkl navigation.

                                                                                                                    1. 8

                                                                                                                      Just needs a little WASD to complete the experience. Double your productivity by navigating two panes simultaneously.

                                                                                                                      1. -1

                                                                                                                        I like your comments. You’re funny.

                                                                                                                    1. 3

                                                                                                                      Happy Birthday!

                                                                                                                      While I’ve never written a line of Perl, the per stands at FOSDEM and OSCON are always the ones I go to and chat. If you want to find people that have been doing creative programming language community work for decades, it’s there.

                                                                                                                      1. 1

                                                                                                                        I received an awkward hug at the FOSDEM stand once, but yeah, good people indeed.

                                                                                                                        1. 1

                                                                                                                          I’m not sure if I should parse this as ironic… :)

                                                                                                                      1. 6

                                                                                                                        Ouch, no prisoners.