1. 3

    (And if you haven’t finished your holiday shopping, you might want to add a Fire TV to your list.)

    Someone please tell me they at least got paid for this one…

    1. 8

      I just thought about this for 30 seconds. Somebody sends me an email. Later they demand I delete it.

      First off, I store email in SQLite database. I have a “trash” function, but really deleting something requires some manual intervention and query writing. I suppose in a regulatory environment I’d automate that.

      I also back things up with tarsnap. There’s no way to delete one file out of a backed up archive. I’d have to restore all relevant archives, delete the bad file, then back them all up again. I think I’d walk away at this point, too.

      1. 7

        For your emails it depends whether it is a private or business email, if it’s a business email you can usually classify it as necessary in case of a tax audit since you’ll need to show them to prove you had business with them. Anything not falling into the “required for tax audit” category should be deleted, yes.

        For backups, they are out of scope for the GDPR if it’s infeasible or impossible to delete individual records or if you have, as above, legal obligation to keep them atleast in the backups.

        In practise it should be sufficient to keep track of customers who deleted their data and in case of a recovery, re-delete the records upon restore. (Covered in Art17 §2 and §3 b, d and e)

        1. 3

          The situation you describe was covered by 1995’s Data Protection Directive.

          1. 1

            The right to be forgotten isn’t new?

            1. 2

              You have the right to require the removal of data about you, except in certain circumstances in certain jurisdictions.

          2. 1

            Also, information may remain in unallocated sectors on disk and swapped memory pages.

          1. 26

            Another item onto the list of stupid, self-sabotaging ideas from Mozilla.

            • Pocket
            • Cliqz
            • Looking Glass
            • (Anything else I missed?)

            That said, I’m still a Firefox user, because after all, I still trust the Mozilla Foundation and Community more than the makers of the other browser vendors.

            1. 10

              Mozilla has it’s missteps, on the other hand, they are still better than the other Browser Vendors out there and I haven’t seen a viable Firefox Fork out there that works for me. Plus it seems the Looking Glass addon was inert unless specifically enabled by the user, so I don’t see the harm tbh.

              “Atleast [they are] the prettiest pile of shit.” ~ Some quote I heard somewhere

              1. 3

                I would add Mozilla Persona to this list, which was a great idea, but was mismanaged and shut down by Mozilla before it could do anything good.

                I pretty much lost my faith in Mozilla having any idea what it is doing at that point.

                1. 5

                  Original Pocket introduction was mishandled, but since Mozilla owns and operates it now, integration with Firefox makes sense.

                  1. 7

                    is it open source now?

                    1. 6

                      My understanding is, it’s not yet. It’s being worked on. I have no idea what kind of work it takes, but the intention is that it will be fully open sourced.

                  2. 4

                    You missed ‘Quantum.’ (The one where they broke their extension API for the sake of alleged performance).

                    1. 45

                      That one I actually like; the performance is much better, and the memory leaks much fewer. Pre-quantum I was on the verge of switching to Chrome because of the performance gap and leaks.

                      1. 11

                        I agree. The browser engine is noticeably better - if only the software around it were also on the same level. Some lightweight browser like surf or midori should adopt it, instead of WebKit.

                        1. 1

                          WebKit is easy to adopt because WebKitGTK and QtWebKit (or whatever it’s called) are well supported and easy to use. And Chromium has CEF. (IIRC Servo is also implementing CEF.)

                          I don’t think current Gecko is easily embeddable into whatever.

                          Back in the day Camino on Mac OS was a Gecko browser with a custom Cocoa UI, but doing that today would be way too hard.

                          1. 2

                            I should clarify, I was talking about Servo. I don’t really thing there would be a point in using Gecko, since it will probably turn into a legacy project.

                            1. 2

                              It seems the other way to me? What they’re doing instead is slowly retrofitting pieces of Servo into Gecko piecemeal. (or at least, some kind of Rust equivalent to the C/C++/JS code being replaced) Servo would then be dead or explicitly turned into some staging ground for Gecko.

                      2. 20

                        I will go beyond alleging a performance improvement, I will attest to it. Surprisingly enough, the improvement includes Google properties such as Gmail and YouTube. They are both more responsive in Firefox now than Chromium or Chrome.
                        On the extension side, I do not use a large number. Those which I do, however, still function.

                        I freely admit that the plural of anecdote is not “data”, but I would feel remiss not to share how impressed I am with Quantum. Pocket has always annoyed me, so I certainly do not see Mozilla’s actions as unimpeachable and am only giving them credit for Quantum because I feel they deserve it.

                        1. 8

                          Based on this, Quantum was a balanced update where the team had do sacrifice the old extension API. Also, it’s not that they’ve removed extensions completely. (And no, I’m not talking about you Looking Glass)

                        2. 8

                          Quantum is great. uBlock Origin and uMatrix now work on Firefox for Android just as well as on desktop.

                          1. 3

                            ublock origin worked on firefox android before firefox quantum no ?

                            1. 1

                              IIRC it worked but the UI was somewhat different. Now uMatrix is also available, and both extensions have UI that looks practically identical to the desktop versions.

                      1. 3

                        My cognitive neuropsychologist friend (University of Kent, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, Otto-von-Guericke-Universität Magdeburg) reports:

                        The assumption there in my experience is totally untrue — it’s more that every psychologist knows that you can’t display things for exactly the time we say, so we get it as close as we can and know that everyone knows what we are talking about in the paper. My department also specifically uses horrible experiment presentation software that everyone hates because they’ve spent ages looking at timing options and it provides a few milliseconds more in terms of accuracy than other software. Psychology forums are full of discussions related to tiny timing inconsistencies.

                        1. 7

                          A friend of mine is Québécois and lives in a French-speaking town on the border of English-speaking Ottawa. Using Google maps navigation is apparently a huge pain there, because the text-to-speech doesn’t know how to flip between languages mid-trip.

                          1. 4

                            It also cannot cope with Dutch street/place names when giving instruction in English. It really mangles things like Lage Rijndijk and Willem de Zwijgerlaan.

                          1. 2

                            I really like most of this article, but I’m concerned by a) the arbitrary five-second budget and b) the glossed-over vagueness of this model of the median user. Besides which, is it acceptable to ruin the user experience for half the audience? And as @wyager mentions, what the hell are you doing that takes five seconds?

                            1. 1

                              The description is non-free?

                              1. 1

                                Not freely redistributeable?

                              1. 5

                                Good on him for publicly crediting Silber for allowing Canonical to be sustainable without him.

                                I made some miscalculations around Unity. I really thought industry would rally to the idea of having a free platform that was independent.

                                I, um… wait what? If this is implying that the many existing alternatives to Unity are either not free or not independent, that seems extremely disrespectful.

                                1. 8

                                  He’s comparing to Android and iOS here

                                  1. 3

                                    I see; thanks. Probably would be clearer in context in the full interview.

                                  2. 6

                                    It’s also not clear why he thinks Unity was independent, especially since it was canned when its corporate owner decided to ‘go in a different direction.’

                                  1. 6

                                    Thanks for the transparency and also the hard work you and the other mods put in.

                                    As an aside, why are some usernames in the user list set to green?

                                    1. 9

                                      They’re less than a week old.

                                      1. 2

                                        Those are recently invited users.

                                        1. 2

                                          They’re new.

                                        1. [Comment removed by author]

                                          1. 12

                                            While I respect your decision to leave, why not give the new team a few weeks to find their feet and listen to community feedback?

                                            1. [Comment removed by author]

                                              1. 15

                                                I think “overwhelming” isn’t the right category. Quite a number of people agree in the comments that it’s not content they want. There’s a wide agreement that the way it was done was clumsy. Happens. This also reflected in this post by pushcx, which doesn’t fit your claim that he doesn’t listen. I’m very shoulders down on this whole thing.

                                                1. 2

                                                  Fair enough.

                                                  I also happen to think that the comment shouldn’t have been deleted, but I also think the mod response to the fallout is transparent and honest.

                                              2. 15

                                                Forum culture 101: People who make a spectacle of leaving never really quit.

                                                1. 13

                                                  Please don’t challenge people to leave. You can’t see it because their comment was deleted when they left, but somebody took you up on it already.

                                                  We can talk about this. :)

                                                  1. 3

                                                    I think it’s very important to respond negatively or at most neutrally to someone threatening to leave. Any kind of remotely positive response creates the wrong dynamic/incentives.

                                                    1. 8

                                                      It’s a free web service. Announcing an intention to leave doesn’t have to result in some “customer retention” script.

                                                      Encouraging someone to leave in a negative way is of course unacceptable.

                                                  2. [Comment removed by author]

                                                  3. 4

                                                    You mean comments I don’t like? Yeah, nah I’m out of here.

                                                    I’d love to have that reason.

                                                    Maybe clicking it shouldn’t do anything though! :D The “I don’t have an objective reason to downvote but I HAVE TO press a dislike button to feel better” button.

                                                    1. 1

                                                      Bye! ☺

                                                    1. 5

                                                      It was identified within the comment as a ‘hate post,’ so I think @pushcx took that as a tacit label of the comment as deliberately unconstructive and removed it accordingly.

                                                      1. 13

                                                        Without context the first comment (which came from a place of frustration - imo) seemed angry - but the thread resulted in reasons-for-frustration being expressed. Dialog was happening in a non-hateful way. Now that has been squelched without legitimate reason.

                                                        1. 3

                                                          That doesn’t scale. If you tolerate snarky, hateful posts, people who write good and reasoned comments eventually get tired of it and stop replying. The ratio of snarky, crappy posts goes up. It’s impossible to maintain a quality discussion if you tolerate bad posts in the hope that good posts will result from them.

                                                          1. 3

                                                            Still, it’s absolutely not on subject.

                                                        1. [Comment removed by moderator pushcx: don't make "hate posts"]

                                                          1. 4

                                                            And Direct3D. But for an electron app it really is minimal: only 145.3 MiB on disk.

                                                            1. 5

                                                              A “minimal X app” generally means an app with a simple and straightforward interface, not an app that fits in 64kb.

                                                              1. 3

                                                                I mean, you sort of need a browser to render markdown.

                                                                1. 3

                                                                  Isn’t the point of markdown the ability to see ‘formatted’ text without rendering it as HTML? I’ve never really understood the value of these markdown editors, given that the most complex thing in MD seems to be lists

                                                                  1. 4

                                                                    What makes you think you need a browser for simple text formatting?

                                                                    1. 8

                                                                      Markdown has full support for inline HTML.

                                                                      It’s even so central to the language that it’s literally the second section in the original markdown document

                                                                      1. 3

                                                                        Never saw this, but I guess that comes from all the different markdown flavors.

                                                                        But ok, use electron for this and call it minimal, I don’t have to care if I don’t use it.

                                                                        Edit: But using some webkit view from gtk or qt would make it less of a problem for me as someone who packages software for a linux distribution. Packaging electron apps is just not feasible because we need patches for it to support musl libc and building it over and over again for each electron app is just wrong.

                                                                        1. 4

                                                                          I find your comment particularly infuriating.

                                                                          Your original post was a lowbrow dismissal of someone’s work couched with irony to provide plausible deniability. Even then, you knew it wasn’t the right thing to do.

                                                                          You then showed that you hadn’t even bothered to understand the field before dismissing the project.

                                                                          You then did another lowbrow dismissal comment, but then followed it up with an edit, in which you suggested:

                                                                          1. the developer take a hard dependency and rewrite their entire software in one of two perennially buggy, flaky, fast-moving and platform-locked desktop linux frameworks, just because it would make your life as a linux software packager easier

                                                                          2. it’s impossible to package electron apps because you have to do work to compile it and that makes you sad

                                                                          I’m trying to imagine scenarios under which you could express more entitlement or lack of respect for people who actually do work, but they’re not coming to me. Additionally, if the job of packaging software is too hard for you, maybe stop doing it.

                                                                          1. 6

                                                                            After your edit this is a much more informative post than your top level one dissing the project. Perhaps you could lead with something more like this next time?

                                                                            1. 3

                                                                              To my understanding, though, there’s no good quick solution to package GTK and QT applications to OS X/Windows, which - to my understanding - is one of the main reasons people pick electron?

                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                Edit: But using some webkit view from gtk or qt would make it less of a problem for me

                                                                                I maintain the OpenBSD port for ghostwriter, it’s pretty minimalistic and uses qt5 webkit view.

                                                                            2. 2

                                                                              There are much nicer ways to make a technical point than this. Please use one of them in the future.

                                                                        1. 7

                                                                          Excellent post, I love the thoroughness! Units especially seem really useful in catching subtle correctness issues. But I do have one minor gripe with one thing you said:

                                                                          For instance, a person’s given name can be long, but it’s never a gigabyte long. It’s sensible to pick an upper limit of fifty Unicode characters.

                                                                          50 characters is not a sensible maximum for names. This has been a highly obnoxious problem for people with long names, simply because programmers make faulty assumptions like this this one. And these people aren’t even terribly obscure, for example the singer Israel Ka’ano’i Kamakawiwoʻole, who most of you will know (by name or not) for his famous rendition of “Over The Rainbow”. His name, aside from being 30 characters long, includes multiple apostrophes. More restrictive assumptions could easily clobber his name. It’s not even hard to imagine “conventional” names that come even closer to this limit, like Jacqueline Alexandra Cunningham-Patterson, 41 chars. And best not make a single middle name field, lest you encounter people with more than one, like George Herbert Walker Bush. Or worse, Avul Pakir Jainilabdeen Abdul Kalam Manakkaya. At 45 chars, the former president of India is dangerously close to a constraint violation in your database.

                                                                          When it comes to things like this, it’s better to just set a limit for the safety of your software. A gigabyte is unreasonable, but 64k probably won’t hurt you. I doubt anyone has a 65,536 character name, or a 16,384 character name of astral characters. Instead of a hard constraint, I would log long names as warnings and manually check if those cases are caused by bugs.

                                                                          1. 3

                                                                            Having a an unhyphenated two-word last name has broken systems in a mostly-amusing variety of ways. And non-technically, humans simply fail to alphabetize properly, or even consistently.

                                                                            1. 1

                                                                              The Spanish also have a naming system prone to long names.

                                                                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs#Naming_system_in_Spain

                                                                              A German minister of some nobility had the full name:

                                                                              Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Buhl-Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg (108 chars)

                                                                              A little fun thing aside: when he was chosen as a minister, someone ninja-edited the Wikipedia to add a name, which lead to newspapers misreporting it :).

                                                                              To the defense of the blog post, they speak about the “given name”, which would be “Karl-Theodor” in that case.

                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                My favourite so far is Alexander Siddig, known to governments as Ṣiddīq aṭ-Ṭāhir al-Fāḍil aṣ-Ṣiddīq ʿAbd ar-Raḥman Muḥammad ʾAḥmad ʿAbd al-Karīm al-Mahdī.

                                                                              1. 3

                                                                                Slightly off-topic moan (who, me?): I for one am sick to death of people insisting that RDBMSes don’t work—of course they don’t fare well when an application’s every request-response cycle involves making half a dozen SELECT * queries on denormalized data stored in crude data types, parsed by client-side regexes that may destroy the fabric of reality.

                                                                                Posts like these remind us that, if you’re going to use a huge complex technology, you should put in enough effort to determine whether you’re incompetent before you judge it. Hopefully we’ll be seeing more like this: perhaps something on NOTIFY/LISTEN? {dark muttering about message queues}

                                                                                1. 2

                                                                                  I had a coworker whose reaction to our (admittedly very shitty) Oracle DB was to suggest we go all NoSQL on it (this was in 2006 or so).

                                                                                  Once the company actually shelled out the $$$ for someone who knew Oracle things got much better.

                                                                                1. 9

                                                                                  See also:

                                                                                  1. 4

                                                                                    Thanks for sharing your latest article; it’s good to see another submission from you after we enjoyed the last one so much. Hopefully more people will adopt this interesting ‘Five Things’ format in the near future. I’m also glad to see your team has entered the exciting world of book publishing, and I look forward with great anticipation to the submission to Lobsters of Guide to Automated Root Cause Analysis—can’t wait to find out what it recommends! However, you don’t actually mention .Net nor Java, so it would be a good idea to re-tag the article accordingly. Incidentally, regarding ‘Powered by OverOps’ at the top of the blog wrapper: you should write an article on how your team integrated OverOps into the blog engine, because that sounds quite fascinating.

                                                                                    1. 4

                                                                                      We researched the top features that Java developers miss in C# and chose 5 of them to list here.

                                                                                      I have several questions about this:

                                                                                      1. Which of the six Java features discussed in the linked post are the five chosen from the survey?
                                                                                      2. Are the five items chosen from the survey the five most commonly cited features missing from C# according to your survey? 2a. If not, what criterion was used to choose them?
                                                                                      3. How did you choose the sixth item in the list?
                                                                                      4. How did you design the survey? 4a. Specifically, if the survey was a multiple-choice question, what choices were given? 4b. Were respondents permitted to give multiple responses?
                                                                                      5. How many responses did you obtain?
                                                                                      6. Have you published a summary of the data obtained in this survey?

                                                                                      Thanks in advance for your answers.

                                                                                      1. 20

                                                                                        Look, here’s the thing. If you’re holding 30 million dollars in 250 lines of code that you haven’t audited, then it’s on you. Seriously. It takes any half-decent appsec guy less than one man-day to fleece those 250 lines. At most, that would cost them a few thousands of dollars. They didn’t do it because they wanted it all for free. They didn’t do it because they’re greedy and cheap. They absolutely deserve this.

                                                                                        I kinda agree with this, honestly. :-\

                                                                                        1. 2

                                                                                          I kinda agree with this, honestly. :-\

                                                                                          That’s because, as your post history on Lobsters has established, you need to get you some ethics and morals.

                                                                                          I kinda agree with the top comment in the article:

                                                                                          “ Look, here’s the thing. If you’re holding 30 million dollars in 250 lines of code that you haven’t audited, then it’s on you.”

                                                                                          Look here’s the thing. If you’ve parked your car on the street like a pleb instead of buying a house with a garage, then its on you.

                                                                                          Look here’s the thing. If you’re holding a PC and a TV and a washing machine in a house with single glazing on the rear windows, then it’s on you.

                                                                                          Whilst this was an extremely interesting read and I’m sure awesome fun to pull off, theft is theft. The rule of law is the rule of law. You know that these ETH belong to other people and you have taken them for yourself. That’s theft, and I hope the law catches up with you.

                                                                                          1. 13

                                                                                            But the entire point of “smart” contracts is that the code IS the contract, right? Your analogy is flawed. It’s not like stealing a car, it’s like finding a loophole in an agreement (or “dumb” contract) and exploiting it in the courts. That happens literally every day, and it is perfectly legal.

                                                                                            The difference is that when you have actual humans making the decisions instead of computers you can make more subtle arguments about what was intended instead of being beholden to the most pedantic possible interpretation of the contract.

                                                                                            1. 14

                                                                                              This is the correct interpretation. The “smart contract” hype is built around the concept that the blockchain is the judge and the jury: it’s all built on the assumption that the blockchain is incorruptible and perfect. To quote from Gavin Wood’s paper “Ethereum: A Secure Decentralised Generalised Transaction Ledger:”

                                                                                              [Ethereum has attributes] not often found in the real world. The incorruptibility of judgment, often difficult to find, comes naturally from a disinterested algorithmic interpreter.

                                                                                              Further:

                                                                                              …natural language is necessarily vague, information is often lacking, and plain old prejudices are difficult to shake.

                                                                                              Most ominously, perhaps:

                                                                                              …the future of law would be heavily affected by [smart contract] systems… Ethereum may be seen as a general implementation of such a crypto-law system.

                                                                                              Based on these concepts, the idea that they’re building a perfect replacement for law, they implemented a Turing-complete language with no concept of or provision for proofs, and run it on a distributed VM from which no malicious programs can be purged. Brilliant!

                                                                                              1. 4

                                                                                                Is it brilliant? I’m not so sure: what sovereign citizens and computer geeks alike seem to believe is that the law is a sequence of perfectly defined rules - which is why the former loves to look for the magical series of words that exempts them from it.

                                                                                                But in reality the law is often about intent and judgment. If I found a bank that let me put my name on everyone’s account and I did with the purpose of withdrawing their savings, the court would hold a dim view of me saying “but they let me do it!

                                                                                                1. 4

                                                                                                  That was sarcasm. :)

                                                                                                  1. 3

                                                                                                    thank god. but like the best sarcasm - and I say this with complete sincerity - it’s indistinguishable from what people are claiming both here and in the article.

                                                                                                    1. 1

                                                                                                      Well note, only the “Brilliant” part was sarcasm. The rest was literally quoting a seminal paper in the space.

                                                                                                2. 2

                                                                                                  hopefully the interest in contract languages on blockchains will encourage more folks to get involved in formal verification.

                                                                                                3. 3

                                                                                                  But the entire point of “smart” contracts is that the code IS the contract

                                                                                                  Agreed. The analogies given above were ridiculous:

                                                                                                  Look here’s the thing. If you’ve parked your car on the street like a pleb instead of buying a house with a garage, then its on you.

                                                                                                  This is not a comparison. Try this instead:

                                                                                                  Look here’s the thing. If you’ve parked your limited edition McLaren F1 on the street instead of in your garage, then yeah that was dumb

                                                                                                  But this is still a rubbish analogy because in Ethereum: Code is Law.

                                                                                                  1. 8

                                                                                                    The correct analogy would be to leave the thing unlocked, with the keys in a plastic box inside, and with a notarized affidavit that reads, ‘I, goodger, hereby transfer ownership of this vehicle and its contents to whomsoever may open this box’.

                                                                                                    1. -1

                                                                                                      Bingo!!

                                                                                                4. 19

                                                                                                  That’s because, as your post history on Lobsters has established, you need to get you some ethics and morals.

                                                                                                  Says the guy who posted 9/11 truther conspiracies from his blog. Angersock has ethics and morals, and I’m a little disheartened that your ad hominem attack got upvoted.

                                                                                                  1. 6

                                                                                                    There are a few certain types of stories regarding politics and cryptocurrencies that seem to bring out a group of extremely angry and aggressive posters that don’t seem to want to have anything but traditional internet yelling. “Get morals” has been yelled at me any time the US government is brought up and always seems heavily upvoted.

                                                                                                    1. -5

                                                                                                      Says the guy who posted 9/11 truther conspiracies from his blog

                                                                                                      And what is wrong with that?

                                                                                                      9/11 Truthers are called 9/11 Truthers because they aren’t 9/11 Frauds.

                                                                                                      EDIT: BTW, those downvoting this as “off-topic” might want to downvote @ngoldbaum’s post instead. I didn’t bring up 9/11, he did. I’ll defend myself if called and, and so to quote from elsewhere: It’s been 16 years now and over $300k in research by multiple teams have refuted NIST multiple times — enough is enough.

                                                                                                      and I’m a little disheartened

                                                                                                      That’s too bad.

                                                                                                      It’s what happens to people who don’t understand basic physics.

                                                                                                      Have fun with the paid sock puppets though.

                                                                                                      1. 2

                                                                                                        Damn, I’m a sock puppet after all… Also ad hominem.

                                                                                                        1. 2

                                                                                                          me too! #sockpuppet

                                                                                                          1. -4

                                                                                                            Keep it up, y’all are going to spend the end of your lives in a prison of your own making.

                                                                                                            You think smart people can’t see past these fake votes?

                                                                                                            1. 5

                                                                                                              It must be very hard living a life where you think every time someone disagrees with you it’s because of a huge conspiracy.

                                                                                                              I encourage you to talk to a mental health professional.

                                                                                                              1. -2

                                                                                                                It must be very hard living a life where you think every time someone disagrees with you it’s because of a huge conspiracy.

                                                                                                                You misunderstand, I don’t think that.

                                                                                                                But 9/11 is a huge conspiracy, so on this particular topic it’s perfectly sensible to think that.

                                                                                                              2. 2

                                                                                                                I know that this is futile and I’m shouting into the void, but why would you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a sock puppet? These aren’t fake votes I think people are disagreeing with your aggressiveness, there is no reason for this to be a psy-ops campaign just to mess with you.

                                                                                                                1. -4

                                                                                                                  but why would you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a sock puppet?

                                                                                                                  See my response to your sock puppet friend’s identical question.

                                                                                                                  But, tell me (since now with the fake downvotes nobody can see your response), how much do you get paid to write this stuff?

                                                                                                                  Are you an American? If so, is it enough to sleep at night, knowing that you’re supporting the terrorists who attacked this country on 9/11?

                                                                                                                  1. -3

                                                                                                                    You gonna answer my question or just exercise your downvote button?

                                                                                                                    Think McFly!

                                                                                                          2. -5

                                                                                                            Angersock has ethics and morals

                                                                                                            Yeah, theft is cool man. Totally ethical. Totally moral. And your upvotes totally didn’t appear simultaneously as a bunch of sock puppets upvoted your comment.

                                                                                                      1. 1

                                                                                                        What is “Google Play Protect” introduced in this version? Does it mean Google Play became more closed and more like Apple’s App Store? Or that users using custom firmwares will have more troubles?

                                                                                                        1. 1

                                                                                                          Looks like it’s some form of antimalware:

                                                                                                          Google Play Protect checks apps when you download them. It also periodically scans your device. If it finds a potentially harmful app, it stops the app from running, and may:

                                                                                                          • Warn you. If an app is detected that may be harmful to your device, you’ll get a notification. To remove the app, tap Uninstall on the notification.
                                                                                                          • Remove the app automatically. In some cases, if a harmful app has been detected, you may get a notification saying the app was removed.
                                                                                                          1. 1

                                                                                                            It strongly resembles an antivirus system, which I suppose is designed to substitute for some kind of quality control.

                                                                                                          1. 35

                                                                                                            Focusing heavily on how it makes a robot computer feel, these posts ultimately neglect what will be the deciding factor in Electron’s success or failure: how it feels for most people to run Electron apps day-to-day.

                                                                                                            This is my favorite line because it doesn’t have any resemblance to reality. I nearly threw my tea at my laptop screen at the idea that people enjoy Electron apps especially the idea that they like those apps more than native applications.

                                                                                                            Slack is widely thought of as an application people have to deal with. Atom is an okay application, but when push comes to shove, they have to use native code to get decent performance. Basic things like resizing a window will make Slack drop frames. The writer must have a really low bar for what counts as an enjoyable application. I receive some great emails, but that doesn’t make my email client any better.

                                                                                                            I can speak for myself when I say Electron runs like a dream. On a typical day, I’ll have about three Atom windows open, a multi-team Slack up and running, as well as actively using and debugging my own Electron-based app Standard Notes. I’ll also have a bunch of other non-Electron apps opened or running, like Adobe Photoshop, three Terminal windows with 3–4 tabs each, Sequel Pro, Google Chrome with on average 4–5 tabs, Apple Mail, iMessage, Little Snitch, Dropbox, and iTunes/Apple Music.

                                                                                                            I also really enjoy this one because the long list of apps is made to sound like there’s a bunch of usage going on, but maybe this writer doesn’t realize how little consumption goes on in the background with these standard macOS apps when they’re “open” (Messages, really?). Photoshop also uses very little RAM if you don’t actually have anything open. This is also supposed to be bragging about using all of these applications on a computer with 16GB of RAM. That is quadruple the amount of RAM that most people use on a typical laptop.

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                                                                                                              To those who run the slack desktop app, my question is… Why? Why not just use it in a web browser where it belongs? If people need you, they’ll find a way to contact you.

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                                                                                                                The brilliance about Slack’s business is that it’s both a business application and an instant messaging platform. Both of those together create an evil combination where the people who need to use it are those who need to use it all day long.

                                                                                                                For any number of reasons, people generally like to be able to open/close browser tabs & windows without worry that some important business application wherein people expect a response from you within minutes (if not seconds) will be lost. This is especially true if you’re a web developer who will need to close all windows or restart the browser on a regular basis.

                                                                                                                Slack has just become too important in the lives of many (thus all the consternation about how terrible the app is) and using it as a separate application makes things a lot cleaner and simpler.

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                                                                                                                  Pinned tabs?

                                                                                                                  Also does Slack support web push? If it does, you should be able to just close it and get notifications.

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                                                                                                                    Luckily, it doesn’t (I get enough notifications while I’m working, no need to spam me even more when I decide to focus and close the browser tab)

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                                                                                                                  I couldn’t find a way in the browser to be able to stay logged in to multiple slacks at once, so I have to run the desktop app.

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                                                                                                                    When you run things in a browser you lose really basic command-tab functionality in OSX

                                                                                                                    You also have browser chrome to deal with , as well as all the browser UI cruft (don’t need to see that URL all the time)

                                                                                                                    I think voice chat doesn’t work in Slack on the web either?

                                                                                                                    I think some of this is solvable , but I haven’t ever found much reason to not just use the slack app that works

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                                                                                                                      You also have browser chrome to deal with , as well as all the browser UI cruft (don’t need to see that URL all the time)

                                                                                                                      Not necessarily. With Chrome you can create chromeless “applications” from any URL. This is what I do with Spotify, Outlook 365, and HipChat. Spotify in particular is much faster that way than “native.”

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                                                                                                                        oh is this possible? How do you do this?

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                                                                                                                          On Windows it’s Menu > More Tools > Add to Desktop. Then make sure that you check “Open as Window.” Voila! Your web page is now a standalone application!

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                                                                                                                            Just had a look at Chrome on Mac OS and couldn’t find anything like this.

                                                                                                                            I’ve been using Fluid to turn web apps into standalone apps, works quite well (aside from the resource usage of course).

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                                                                                                                              Yeah. A little searching shows that option is only available on Windows and Linux, not Mac OS.

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                                                                                                                      Why not just use it in a web browser where it belongs?

                                                                                                                      Judgy judgy! :)

                                                                                                                      I don’t particularly like running “applications” inside web browsers because my browser is a dynamic place. I open tabs, close tabs, move things around etc all the time and frequently need to restart. In short, for my use case, browsers make AWFUL persistent application platforms.

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                                                                                                                        I used to use Slack in the web browser. I’m on Linux and wanted to try to use Slack’s voice call features, and the browser version wouldn’t let me select my speaker/mic device, so I couldn’t use it.

                                                                                                                        Then I heard there was a Slack desktop app, so I thought, hey maybe that will work. So I tried that. But I had the same problem.

                                                                                                                        I never switched back to the browser version because there’s really nothing that has made me want to switch. It’s using about 700MB of RAM right now, and that feels pretty par for the course to me. My gmail tab is using just as much. As a bonus, the Slack desktop app uses my notification daemon that I have running (dunst), which lets me very easily dismiss or recall notifications without touching the mouse.

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                                                                                                                        Photoshop AND Sequel Pro opened at the same time?! This just reads as someone enumerating the apps installed on his laptop…

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                                                                                                                          This is my favorite line because it doesn’t have any resemblance to reality. I nearly threw my tea at my laptop screen at the idea that people enjoy Electron apps especially the idea that they like those apps more than native applications.

                                                                                                                          Clearly native applications are better in some respects (they may be faster, more conformant to local UI norms, etc.)

                                                                                                                          However the key question is - Is having a cross platform electron app to solve a particular task better than not having that niche served at all?

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                                                                                                                            I was responding to the idea that the writer threw out there that Electron may use a lot of resources, but it’s in service of making a better UX & UI for users. He didn’t actually elaborate on that probably because there is no way to defend that position.

                                                                                                                            It’s a lot more easily defensible to talk about the business side of web apps rather than anything technical. In the particular case of Slack, that company has plenty enough money to completely rewrite their web app as a set of native apps, but why would they when everyone is already locked in?

                                                                                                                            I also like that he used some strange math to say that his basic note-taking application would cost $500 when, last time I checked, not even the most complicated native applications run by the smallest teams that would need the most money actually charge that much money for their apps.

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                                                                                                                              not even the most complicated native applications run by the smallest teams that would need the most money actually charge that much money for their apps

                                                                                                                              I wish! Have you seen what Autodesk charges? And they’re subscriptions

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                                                                                                                              To which the obvious response is: does any electron app serve a unique purpose?

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                                                                                                                                The same question could be asked of any given native technology. This is almost but not quite a troll :)