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    I’ve read the README twice and I’m still confused. Why would you use or need this? Is it decoupling of sending an receiving mails to a “list”? This lets you send to the list without being subscribed and read it via not-email? Did I get that right?

    Also:

    If a reader loses interest, they simply stop syncing. How is stopping syncing of NNTP easier than unsubscribing?

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      These seem to be the advantages:

      • Browsing messages that were sent prior to your subscribing to the list, with a better interface (native nntp reader) than the usual web archives.
      • Keeping track of a discussion on a high volume list for a little while without having to subscribe, set up mailbox filtering, and later unsubscribe.

      However to be fair, some mailing lists already do provide mbox files of the archives that you can download and browse with a local email program.

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        Thanks, especially that second point makes sense. What I usually do is make a bookmark on my bookmarks bar for that and delete it again after a week or month. But I do that so rarely that it’s a good enough hack.

        Also I wonder if now (hey, it’s 2018) the amount of people actively using NNTP isn’t such a low number that this is kinda moot. Also I always get the vibe of ML-hate not from people old enough to be staunch NNTP fans, but from younger people. So are the “MLs are ok, but NNTP is better” folks really even less than the “I only use NNTP”, both hardly noticeable against something else? ;)

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        I consider this a feature:

        git clone --mirror https://public-inbox.org/meta/
        

        It creates a local copy of the mailinglist named “meta”. The local copy contains all the metadata you may need to restore the “meta” mailing list if it gets censored, for example.

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        This is great. Now I possess new language to describe those “open source in name only” projects that I dislike so much.

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          Actually, most free software is classified as Bathwater.

          I guess this was intentional, as the whole point of open source was to work around the ethical values of the Free Software movement and use source availability as a marketing tool.

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            Hi again, Shamar!

            Does the word ‘actually’ really need to be in your post?

            I thought about saying “free software in name only”, but actually the projects in question don’t call themselves free software.

            I guess you are reminding me that “open source” isn’t diminished by B2B and Rocket To Mars projects, because the “open source” term itself is already a diminished version of “free software”. I know, I know!

            FWIW, I think most free software I actually use falls into the Wide Open category (as Debian packages, there are lists and repos and people, even if the upstream lacks those) while most of the software I fork and build myself are Bathwater projects (otherwise, I’d use the existent packages!).

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          For the past few days/weeks, I’ve been piecing together a theory. We like to solve problems, but that only creates new problems. In other words, solution is just another way to spell tomorrow’s problem. Two very nice examples for my evidence bucket here.

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            1. 1

              “We like to solve problems, but that only creates new problems. “

              Not true even though it looks good on the surface. Maybe true but not as much as it seems. I’m not sure. The counter I have in mind is there’s at least two ways to solve problems:

              1. Use a solution that worked for something similar whose justifications/assumptions also fit the current context pretty well. Modify it carefully introducing just enough additions to get the job done.

              2. Use a novel idea whose potential drawbacks aren’t well-understood instead. This creates new problems at a much faster rate. The new problems can also be catastrophic.

              The cryptocurrency people are doing No 2 when doing No 1 makes more sense. This is also true for many crowds in tech aside from cryptocurrencies. Also, No 1 always makes more sense by default.

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              The math tag goes on this, right?

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                Id say so.

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                Thanks for the re-post!

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                  The proposed solutions provided in the article all swarm around the idea of finding a third-party source randomness that everyone can agree on. Almost all the proposed solutions on the reddit thread do the same. (Props to this person for walking to the beat of a different drummer.)

                  I think they (or we) can do better! But, I don’t know how, yet.

                  I think the solution should be cryptographic in nature… So, I’ll try to get close to the answer by clicking anything in Wikipedia’s Cryptography Portal and connected nodes and sharing anything that looks remotely related.

                  These look really promising:

                  These look … interesting? Hopefully unnecessary.

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                    What about this?

                    1. Each party generates a secret string
                    2. Each party publishes the hash of their string to the entire group
                    3. Once all hashes have been published, each party publishes their original string to the entire group
                    4. The random number is the hash of the concatenated strings

                    There’s nothing in this protocol enforcing that the secret strings be random, but I believe that it’s game-theoretically in each party’s interest to do so, so as to avoid e.g. dictionary attacks. I can’t see how any party gains anything by generating a string that is anything except truly random, ensuring a random hash of the concatenated strings.

                    Am I thinking about this correctly?

                    EDIT: Ah, I see, this is basically the “commitment scheme” idea mentioned in the Wikipedia article you posted. Cool!

                    1. 1

                      I came up with a variant of this, but instead of strings, each person picks a number, which is then hashed, then the resulting number is the sum of the chosen numbers, mod 20, plus 1.

                      Another thing you could do is send a message, and the millisecond it was received at, mod 20, plus 1, is your number. You would have to trust that the internet makes the timing random enough, and that you can trust your chat system, but usually you can.

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                      They don’t need to agree on the source of randomness, it just needs to be reasonably beyond manipulation by dev1. Like @asrp says, stuff like Bitcoin IDs will work. You could also hash the fifty first characters of the first article of a newspaper published the day of. Just as long as you announce the method before the event happens, and that the data source is sufficiently out of your control, you’re good.

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                        It depends on what they mean by their constraint 2. If there’s no input from the other devs or any third party then the only remaining source of information is the first developer and so I think it cannot be done.

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                        The (original) title is misleading.

                        I can’t help but imagine how different Android would be if various concepts from guix (or nix I guess) had predated Android 1.0.

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                          I can’t help but imagine how different Android would be if various concepts from guix (or nix I guess) had predated Android 1.0.

                          They did! The original Nix paper came out in 2006:

                          https://nixos.org/~eelco/pubs/phd-thesis.pdf

                          I’m always impressed that these ideas were explored 12 years ago. There’s been lots of thinking, and it’s paid off :)

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                            The project actually started at least three years before that: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/commit/75d788b0f24e8de033a22c0869032549d602d4f6

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                          And now, let’s do the same but with x86_64 for better compatibility, as desktop world is currently not yet ready for ARM64.

                          1. 4

                            I’m targeting ARM64 for my desktops now because it seems to be the future.

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                              How do you run your proprietary stuff at your $dayjob then? (It could be Photoshop, M$O, your company app or just some closed source embedded SDK as well)

                              1. 2

                                On hardware issued by $work.

                                I should clarify what I meant by ‘targeting’. I don’t own any desktop-class ARM machines yet, just SBCs. I’m almost done with my LFS VM (on an AMD64 host), which I’ll use to get started on Cross-LFS.

                          1. 2

                            I love Signal, but I don’t always like the tone that the Signal developers have in GitHub issue discussions. No information about whether the bugs apply to Signal, whether they have been fixed or even looked at … and then they just lock the issue, without comment. There might be a good reason, but it doesn’t look great.

                            Glad to know that this vulnerability has been fixed, though. They’re certainly doing something right :-)

                            1. 2

                              They are openly hostile in the Issues section, yes.

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                              Hi, dabmancer.

                              I want to tell you a story… I skimmed your laptop.txt and found no pictures. I went to back to the parent… menu, still didn’t find any pictures.

                              So I decided to contact you and ask for pics! I was just about to ssh into a tilde and weechat into the local ircd to ask who knows much about gopher when I realized that whoever responded would just browse your whole hole to find contact information–and I can do that, the floodgap proxy works fine from work.

                              AND, your guestbook works. :) My message was delivered already, well before I tapped out this rambling, pointless message. Cheers! p.s. send laptop pics

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                                I didn’t realize I was reading this through a Gopher proxy until I read this comment. I just though I was on a mailing list reader.

                                I really should setup a gopher server to serve up all the content on my website, in a Docker container, just because I can.

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                                  I wrote my own gopher server mainly to mirror my blog to gopherspace. It wasn’t that hard.

                                  1. 4

                                    Oh shit, it was a Gopher! Given a prior thread, I guess this one should be on list for coolest, modern Gophersites. The FloodGap homepage is itself really neat, too.

                                    1. 3

                                      Running a gopher hole is pretty easy. I run mine off pygopherd, which is nice in that it will turn directories into gophermaps with type hinting, but if you plan to write your own maps a gopher server is only a handful of lines of code.

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                                        Making your own gopher server is an afternoon of work or so. That’s what I did for the server.

                                    2. 6

                                      Now that you mention it, I do need to take pictures. My email is dabmancer@dread.life, for anyone interested (I did not get your email if you sent one already). I’ll try to respond to every email that I get (and also be helpful). I’m glad the stuff works. The whole point of gopher is that it’s too simple to go wrong.

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                                        I don’t really understand but I still suspect this is the most awesome thing I’ll read all week.

                                      1. 3

                                        apt-get install yapet

                                        I have to manually create an rc file so that it will always open the same locally stored encrypted credential storage file when I start it and provide a passphrase.

                                        I have to carefully click+drag on my terminal window to get the right text selected (because passwords have word-boundary characters in them). Then, am in the habit of using the “copy” function from a menu, rather than rely on the xselection, because its moderate unreliability (I use shared clipboards between different OS’d hosts and guests a lot) gets magnified by hidden-value password fields.

                                        Frequently, the ncurses interface doesn’t work properly if I try to use it over ssh (god forbid via some android terminal emulator).

                                        It’s a PITA.

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                                          In their tests, shouldn’t the input be some kind of RAW file instead of a jpeg?

                                          Otherwise, how do we know the compression gains don’t come from the artifacts?

                                          1. 1

                                            It probably does. But, regular lossless compression tools, like gzip, don’t compress compressed images, like jpegs, very well. This tool is explicitly for losslessly compressing lossily-compressed images, and doing it very quickly.

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                                              I tried to discuss this with the developer. I’m not sure what the takeaway is.

                                              https://github.com/catid/Zpng/issues/3

                                          1. 3

                                            I know this post is *nix-centric, but FWIW, WPF and XAML are not horrible tools for building UIs.

                                            1. 4

                                              … I just spent a minute searching the web for a GUI toolkit named “FWIW”… For what it is worth, I now presume that there is not one.

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                                                Haha, sorry for inadvertently sending you on that wild goose chase :|

                                            1. 4

                                              “Hi, uh, I’m calling to set up a hair appointment, oh, uh, and I’m legally required to let you know that I am a robot. Do you have anything between uh 10 and 3?”

                                              1. 4

                                                While technically interesting, looks like backwards progress: instead of selecting dates in calendar, where free and occupied slots are visible, instead of typing address with autocomplete or clicking on map, you have to call by phone and talk like in 1970s. Imagine how this technology can transform Uber: it can finally become vintage call-by-phone taxi service.

                                                I don’t understand obsession with voice interfaces (and other things where text is replaced by voice, such as video courses). It looks like hype originating from stupidiest sci-fi movies, where trashcan-shaped robots take voice commands (but the flying space shed itself is still controlled by transparent monitors and Atari joysticks). It’s like dropping ancient sumerian technology of writing and going back to vocal-only communication.

                                                Update: didn’t read article thoroughly: it’s vice versa, for calling businesses with phone operators by robot, it’s even more surreal.

                                                1. 2

                                                  The problem this is solving is that many businesses do not have online booking, so this gives the user an interface they are ok with and then uses existing interfaces to execute on it, which in this case is a phone call.

                                                  1. 1

                                                    re: your update: Yep. Probably the customer’s interface to the Google robocaller is a calendar app… So the robot voice is a middleman. An API, if you will.

                                                    Entirely related: check out the music video with 10 million views that comes up if you search (with duck duck go for example) for: blockhead “the music scene”.

                                                  1. 1

                                                    Also consolidate Java and JavaScript while at it.

                                                    1. 3

                                                      So we’re keeping the emacs tag, right? ‘Cause, this doesn’t fit in the proposed editors tag. :)

                                                      With that caveat, I support the tag proposal. (Feel free to merge vim into editors unless there is some reason not to. ;) )

                                                      1. 2

                                                        To be fair, emacs is big enough to almost be an operating system so it deserves its own tag.

                                                        And I appreciate a separate vim tag so I can block all wrong-think in my feed. C-u 1 0 0 0 hail-emacs!

                                                      2. 2

                                                        Also consolidate Java and JavaScript while at it.

                                                        Point noted. Edited title + request from:

                                                        Can we consolidate “vim”/“emacs” to a general “editors” tag?

                                                        To:

                                                        Tag proposal: editors

                                                        Just how we have a general programming tag.

                                                        1. 2

                                                          view-source also works to render the mail message with linefeeds.

                                                          1. 1

                                                            It crashed when I tapped upload. I tapped ‘report’ and checked the Include System Logs box. What other information do you need?

                                                            [EDIT: ‘clicked’ –> ‘tapped’]

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                                                              I may have adb available. …Pretty sure I do, on one of these machines… :)

                                                              1. 1

                                                                Thanks for the heads-up. Which android version are you running ?

                                                                And if you have adb, there should be some logs available with the filter key .pix.UploadIntentSvc

                                                                1. 1

                                                                  5.1.1. Device is LG Spree (LG-K120). I’m looking at https://developer.android.com/studio/command-line/logcat now…

                                                                  1. 1

                                                                    BTW, the picture I was trying to share was not stored in a file, I think. It was a screen capture from the capture app which … might be an LG app, or it may be in ASOP. I can’t tell.

                                                                    1. 1

                                                                      Technically, when you screen-capture using the standard shortcut (in my case Vol- and lock), it stores the image in some temporary folder, which still means it should work.

                                                                      I’ve tested screenshots a few times, it seemed to work on my side.

                                                                      If you have any update, I’ll try to investigate that problem.

                                                                      EDIT: Which version of the app do you have ? In the last days, I’ve only seen crash reports for the first release, whereas another one got released a bit before.

                                                                      To easily know: when you go on the app’s home screen, is there a button on the bottom of the app with the “Uploads history” label ? If no, you’re on an old version.

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                                                                I agree with (or rather: recognize) the litany of mistakes described in this article.

                                                                But, the implicit suggestion that those who still use Eclipse should migrate is shot down right-quick by this: https://www.jetbrains.com/store/#edition=personal

                                                                1. 1

                                                                  the community edition is pretty nice (in addition to being both 0 cost and open source). But if you need the features of the ultimate, maybe paying doesn’t seem unreasonable.