Threads for loch

  1. 2

    I started with Doom, though to Emacs apprentices I would also suggest trying plain old Emacs first (there’s a package to switch between configs easily called chemacs which is good for this). As great as Doom is, and as much as I prefer vi keybinds, I think it’s worth learning the core concepts before trying one of the “remaster” level configs.

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      A link to that config switching package: Chemacs 2

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      On macOS, a popular terminal is iterm2.

      Why would you list a paid application as a popular choice in an article for newbies? Terminal.app is fine and the obvious starting point for most users.

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        iTerm2 is free and OSS

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          To be honest, I always thought it was paid too. I think there is something that sounds similar that is a commercial app.

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            It’s funny, I knew a handful of talented Linux kernel devs at an old internship, who all swore by Mobaxterm, a monstrosity of a Windows SSH client (it ships an embedded X server with some form of dwm, wild) that is anything but FLOSS. Oddly enough, I had only seen it otherwise in a non-CS robotics class where it was the batteries-included alternative to PuTTY.

            I totally agree with your sentiment about starting programmers with FLOSS software, even if iterm2 is indeed FLOSS, haha. Many people won’t know what’s out there if the paid/proprietary option is the first they see.

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              Oddly enough, I had only seen it otherwise in a non-CS robotics class where it was the batteries-included alternative to PuTTY.

              I feel like a 30 year old boomer for preferring PuTTY over most other WIndows SSH clients. (Well, the other grognard SSH client is Tera Term…)

            2. 1

              Terminal.app is completely useless for people who need to both use AltGr (right Option) for diacritics and Alt (left Option) as a function modifier.

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                I don’t understand what you mean by function modifier.

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                  To make it do something different from inserting a letter, such as:

                  upcase-word (M-u)
                         Uppercase the current (or following) word.  With a negative  ar‐
                         gument, uppercase the previous word, but do not move point.
                  downcase-word (M-l)
                         Lowercase  the current (or following) word.  With a negative ar‐
                         gument, lowercase the previous word, but do not move point.
                  capitalize-word (M-c)
                         Capitalize the current (or following) word.  With a negative ar‐
                         gument, capitalize the previous word, but do not move point.
                  
            1. 14

              The new MacBook Pro, which I have, is all this and more. A clean build of my work project (C++, Xcode) is about 50% faster than on my 2018 model, with no audible fan noise. In fact I don’t recall ever hearing the fan. I’m getting multiple days of battery life, too. (This is with the baseline M1 Pro CPU, not the Max.)

              I’ve been through every Mac CPU change, 68000 to PowerPC to x86 to ARM, and each one gets more transparent. The only time I noticed this one was when I first launched an x86 app and the OS told me it was going to install the emulator. Everything I’ve recompiled and run has worked fine.

              Also kudos to Apple for backing away from earlier design decisions — “butterfly” keyboard, touch-bar — that turned out to be bad ideas. The Apple I worked at probably wouldn’t have done that.

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                I liked new MacBooks Pro on paper, but when I touched them in the store I took my 3k$ and went home. I don’t care about useless to me ports, USB C is all I want (I do software). For me MacBook Air with M1 is much better in terms of form and weight. But this is my usecase.

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                  I don’t need an SD card reader, and I could do without the extra weight, but I do need at least a 15” display to do work. ¯\(ツ)

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                  Ditto to all of this. I spend a lot of time in and around WebGL graphics. One of our in-house apps makes my old MacBook and the laptops of all my colleagues sound like the decks of aircraft carriers. It’s completely silent on my new M1 MacBook Pro.

                  I was frankly a little nervous about getting this machine. I need it to run everything from Blender, a .NET server with a proxied webpack dev server on top, various node servers, to a headless WebGL engine. I was pleasantly surprised to find it does all but the last those things without breaking a sweat. Things that run natively feel instantaneous. Things that run on Rosetta 2 still feel snappier than before. Industry adoption for Apple Silicon is moving apace. I’m pretty sure I’m just a dependency upgrade away from getting the last item on my list working and I can finally shed my old machine for good.

                  The most revolutionary thing about the experience of using the new MacBook Pro isn’t the features or build quality per se (although they’re both excellent). It’s that the performance bottleneck in my day-to-day work is squarely back on the network. I haven’t felt that way in a while.

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                    I am really disappointed that Apple removed both the touchbar and the butterfly keyboard. The butterfly keyboard was the best feeling keyboard I have ever used, bar none, and the touchbar was very useful in some scenarios, while the physical F keys are absolutely useless to me.

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                      The touch bar has an interesting idea, but without proper haptics (i.e. scan with your finger, more forecful click as you actually press), I don’t think most people wouldn’t have bought into it.

                      I thought the butterfly keyboard was nice on the 12” MacBook (they should bring it back w/ M1, IMHO), but I wasn’t as impressed with it on the Pros…. and the reliability issues sunk that.

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                        I forget if I’ve mentioned it on here before, but HapticKey is worth trying. It uses the magnets in the touchpad to emulate feedback on the Bar, it work better than you’d expect.

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                          Oh yeah, the version of the 12’’ MacBook was the best. The newer version on the Pros wasn’t quite as good, but to me it was still better than the current keyboard.

                          As for reliability, mechanical keyboards have atrocious reliability compared to both regular keyboards, and I suspect to the butterfly keyboards as well, but that’s not the reason why people use mechanical keyboards. They simply like the feel and accept the tradeoff. I would accept the same tradeoff for my laptop’s keyboard.

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                            As for reliability, mechanical keyboards have atrocious reliability compared to both regular keyboards, and I suspect to the butterfly keyboards as well, but that’s not the reason why people use mechanical keyboards.

                            Do you have some evidence for this? I don’t have numbers, but I have numerous mechanical keyboards and the only one that has failed was stepped on, whereas I experienced multiple failures of my MacBook butterfly keyboard.

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                              Unfortunately I am not aware on any real studies, so all I have is anecdotal evidence, albeit I have a lot of anecdotal evidence.

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                              As for reliability, mechanical keyboards have atrocious reliability compared to both regular keyboards

                              Just to clarify, you are only referring to mechanical keyboards on laptops and not to external mechanical keyboards?

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                                No, I am referring to external keyboards. I didn’t even know mechanical keyboards on laptops were a thing.

                                1. 4

                                  There were, though I’m going back to the 486/Pentium era (easily portable might be a better description than what we think of now). The current ones I know of with mechanical keyboards are from Razer and Asus.

                                  My experience with mechanical keyboards differs, even cheap ones are long-lasting than any laptop keyboard I’ve seen since some of the old IBM Thinkpads and Toshiba Porteges.

                            3. 1

                              The touch bar has an interesting idea, but without proper haptics (i.e. scan with your finger, more forecful click as you actually press), I don’t think most people wouldn’t have bought into it.

                              The most important feature of he touchbar was that it could run Doom. It’s still a mystery why touchbar equipped Macbooks didn’t fly of the shelf after this became known. :(

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                              I really wanted to like the touch bar, but my fingers rarely ended up using it, maybe because of the lack of tactile feedback. Also, I’ve long been accustomed to binding F1..F8 to switch between my most-used apps, so having other functions on the touchbar interfered with my muscle memory.

                              You’re honestly the first person I’ve ever heard praise the butterfly keyboard, or even say it felt any better than the old type. I kept making typing mistakes on it, and even bought a little KeyChron mechanical BT keyboard to use when I wanted to do a lot of typing away from my desk.

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                                Well, add me to the likes for the feel. Besides that, it was an absolute disaster. I had a MacBook Pro with a butterfly keyboard from before they added the seals and keys would constantly get stuck or wouldn’t actuate correctly (I guess because a speck of dust got in).

                                Though, the most reviews don’t mention this, the new M1 Pros have another scissor mechanism than the M1 Air and prior scissor MacBooks and I love it. It is much more ‘clicky’ than the earlier scissor keyboards and feels somewhat closer to mechanical keyboards.

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                                I am really disappointed that Apple removed both the touchbar and the butterfly keyboard.

                                The butterfly keyboard seems to have had a lot of reliability issues, even after they made some changes to it.

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                                  Why not bind the actions your wanted to the F keys? MacOS has a very good support for binding actions.

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                                I know I’m in the minority of people who enjoy using the Touch Bar, but I didn’t realize until today just how much vitriol there was towards it. What is it that makes it so off-putting to users?

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                                  I think lack of haptic feedback was the big motivating factor. I thought the idea had potential, but it wasn’t really iterated on before its quiet death.

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                                    Considering Apple have fully functioning haptic feedback on the otherwise mute touchpad, it’s mysterious they never implemented it for the touch bar.

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                                      But… you don’t feel the haptics in the touchpad when you stroke across it, only when you click it. Which makes sense for a touchpad, because it’s a big uniformly smooth surface without features. Function keys, on the other hands, require you to hit a specific spot; haptic feedback when clicking wouldn’t help you feel your way to the right key. You would need something where I can stroke across it and feel the contours of a key, and it would have to only activate when applying force.

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                                        Right. I would possibly appreciate such a feature on the touchpad as well.

                                  2. 5

                                    I hated the keyboards it came with. I might’ve been interested in the ability to add a touch bar to a keyboard that didn’t suck.

                                    Removing the esc key made it a complete non-starter for me. I didn’t care for the removal of the function row. By the time they put the esc key back and fixed the keyboard, I had moved on from the platform.

                                    That’s all background for my hot take: I don’t think people hated the touch bar per se so much as the inability to put a keyboard with the expected facilities onto some very high-end pieces of gear. If the touch bar had been purely additive, I suspect some detractors might even have become fans.

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                                      I had a touchbar without esc (with butterfly keyboard) for years, and have had a touchbar with esc (with good keyboard; M1) for the last year. Honestly, it still sucks. Even looking at it I can still fudge and hit the wrong thing. It is just about strictly worse than physical function keys. It’s hard to think of a single time when it has been useful.

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                                        I assume it’s going to be useless to a lot of people here at lobsters. But my wife find it super handy because she doesn’t use the escape key do often, or keyboard at all, when there’s a touch{bar|pad} option.

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                                          Yeah, I think it would be good in addition to function keys. When it replaces the function keys, it doesn’t seem appealing at all. When it replaces the esc key, it makes me want to avoid the whole computer.

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                                        It requires you to look at the keyboard to use it, which is bad ergonomics in my opinion.

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                                          I wish they’d have put it into the touchpad, and then also in the external touchpad. I’m a weird duck as I never ever ever use a laptop as a laptop, so.

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                                            I use my Touch Bar about once a week…. always by accident.

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                                            Excellent post! I absolutely love writing bash—you can do some very golfy stuff with it. I’ve written shlide, a pure bash presentation tool. There’s a lot of funky shit in there, that you might find interesting.

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                                              Used this for a few presentations during my internship, excellent tool! You can get very creative with shlide and a Quake-style terminal, my code demos turned out awfully smooth. :)

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                                                That’s awesome to hear. ;)

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                                                Fab, definitely going to check it out, the name has me hooked already! :)

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                                                Happy to see Serenity getting this kind of exposure! Very well-deserved.

                                                1. 3

                                                  But what’s the benefit, really? Using only one CPU core is a huge handicap, it won’t run most software, and the browser sounds limited too. And AFAIK it doesn’t offer anything technically innovative under the hood like a microkernel. (Plus that UI … I know it’s a matter of taste, but to me Windows 95 was a gray-and-pus colored eyesore.)

                                                  (I don’t mean to flame, I’m just wondering what the appeal is beyond the wow factor of “someone built an OS from scratch”.)

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                                                    It’s in the article, right? The guy’s in recovery and needed, or needs, a substitute activity.

                                                    I know a bit of how people can do in such a situation, and I’m sure wrangling Linus or anyone else in a bigger project would lead to a relapse. No joke.

                                                    Stuff like single-core isn’t a handicap, it’s a good start. Hoping of course the SMP support / scheduler will look like Haiku’s so the desktop remains responsive ;)

                                                    Any wow factor beyond the backstory is personal to whoever is into these projects.

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                                                      Plus, it’s fun. I poked around SerenityOS and tried my hand at fixing a bug or two (no PRs yet, I’m not in the best spot, either, but soon…). It’s just a light-hearted hobby project that can brighten a nerd’s evening like no other.

                                                      Its community is really nice, too, nobody well ackshuallies you because your program has so many options it’s intimidating for new users, reviews don’t bring up things like what particular method you use to build your Docker container or whether the way you’ve done something is fashionable in the latest C++ standard.

                                                      It may not look like much, but lots of things that start out as fun eventually turn out to be useful through sheer inertia, precisely because people end up doing things that are unthinkable in the real world, like, I dunno, interfaces that you can use on a small screen :-P.

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                                                      I will almost certainly never run SernetyOS, ReactOS, or Haiku but I’m still happy that the projects exist and I like to see news from them.

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                                                        There was a period where reasonable people could (and did) make similar criticisms of Linux as an OS. It couldn’t run a lot of the software you needed. To “get things done”, you needed windows. Only enthusiasts could make it work.

                                                        I think most people are aware of the dizzying tower of abstraction on which modern development sits. There are pros (scale from a toaster to the cloud! use this library!) and cons (performance! complexity!) to this, but - for some problem domains - cutting that away for a fresh start is a feature not a bug.

                                                        If a new OS is going to ever grow up under the heavy canopy of the existing ecosystem, it will look like this at first.

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                                                          Speaking as someone who wrote a little bit of the libc, I share the frustration it’s not at all original. However, what I do like about it is the heart and spirit of it. Andreas’ enthusiasm is very infectious.

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                                                            Personally I think the independent browser engine alone makes SerenityOS worthwhile. Creating one is a Herculean task that even enormous corporations will not attempt, but having multiple browser engines is vital for the health of the open web. There are so few browser engines left besides Blink+WebKit that I consider it to be an emergency. SerenityOS’s browser may not be very impressive at the moment, but it could potentially be a starting point for a new competitive browser engine the way that KHTML was the starting point for the current dominant browser engines.

                                                            If Servo can somehow survive, I’d consider that to be a better basis for a competitive browser, but if SerenityOS runs well on older / cheaper machines, perhaps a browser based on it could find a niche on low-powered hardware.

                                                            And if having an alternate browser engine implementation is worth getting excited about, what other independent implementations of things exist in SerenityOS that merit attention? Maybe I’ll install SerenityOS and investigate.

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                                                              Eh. It’s not the choices I would have made for a personal project, but given that it started as one dude scratching a personal itch … I’m happy to see it. My own nostalgic itch-scratching would end up looking a lot more like classic Finder on top of Symbolics, but with two kids and such it’ll always be an unrealized daydream. Good on this dude for pushing through and Doing It.

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                                                            If anyone would like to share, I’ll ask: how and when did you end up joining the site?

                                                            I first found Lobsters in 2014, when someone mentioned it on HN as a more pleasant community. There were fewer comments then and the point totals were much lower, but I remember enjoying every post I read. I think a huge factor was how memorable the domain name was, I knew it without googling after seeing it once. I was a poor undergrad taking a leave of absence, and my phone and laptop were broken at the time, so I would read posts on workstations at my dad’s office while helping him with IT stuff. Honestly this site means a lot to me for that; at a real personal low, it reminded me that CS wasn’t just my experience with school.

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                                                              I’ve seen a mention on reddit and applied, somehow got in.

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                                                                2014 for me too. I had been thinking of leaving HN after the ridiculous pending comments scheme had been announced. Somewhere during the discussion of it back in those days, I saw Lobsters mentioned as an alternative. I took a look, liked what I saw, and asked in the queue for an invite.

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                                                                  I’ve had the pleasure of knowing @pushcx for close to two decades at this point. He mentored me in programming fundamentals over that time and I found myself watching on of the Lobste.rs live programming streams for fun one evening. While discussing the stream he sent me an invite and I have thoroughly enjoyed having a sane source of news ever since.

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                                                                    I was a lurker for a while before I actually got an invite.

                                                                    I came across @jcs’s blog after getting into OpenBSD (it was probably around 2019, so fairly recent). On there I found an old post complaining about the state of the orange site’s moderation. There’s a tiny link at the bottom of the post to a website…

                                                                    After finding Lobsters on that blog post I lurked here, reading stories, never bothering to get an invite until one day I came across someone (on Discord, funnily enough) who said they had an invite for someone who wanted it.

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                                                                    Reading this hit me, but frankly didn’t surprise me. I went to Northeastern while Matthias was teaching there, and had heard tales from week one of his temper toward students. Hell, I heard them from other professors.

                                                                    It’s a real shame, I love Racket but the negativity and elitism surrounding it at NEU prevented me from ever feeling like getting more involved.

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                                                                      If anyone wants a story of what NOT to use, here you go:

                                                                      I recently moved somewhere where Xfinity was the only option. They said that Fios would be coming within 2 months, so I decided to go with the router rental fee while waiting for the chance to splurge on a nice fiber-optic modem. Still waiting on Fios five months later.

                                                                      The Xfi router has been nothing but pain. Things I haven’t had to do in a decade, I have to do again. Power cycling the router constantly, being VERY cautious during video calls about how much bandwidth I’m using, you’d really think I was paying for the cheapest option. (A side note: I know equipment is recycled by ISPs but do you really have to send me scratched and dirty routers?)

                                                                      In terms of NAS, I keep it simple, running an SMB share on a Raspberry Pi. I’ve never had throughput issues, though directory listings take a little while in macOS Finder. Pretty great setup for the price, but no matter how secure I keep it, having it plugged into a router that wants to run an extra unauthenticated network for “subscribers” makes it moot.

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                                                                        For me, it all depends where the weight is going. Heavy JS is a nonstarter, but I love browsing Neocities and its plethora of big gifs and poorly optimized headers.

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                                                                          One positive that I’ve learned over time about nano is that it’s consistent; before I learned the differences between vi, vim and vim.tiny (the minimal build Debian uses), I would often find myself looking for features that weren’t there. I’ve never seen a nano with features configured out, though I’ll have to peruse the source this afternoon to see what can actually be turned on and off!

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                                                                            Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, but isn’t this simply the proper way to include VSCode? /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ is designed to separate non-Canonical sources from main/extra/universe, and it seems like this is MSFT’s way of providing rolling-release updates.

                                                                            Edit: I didn’t realize until rereading that this is the “lite” image, which makes this silly if not necessarily evil. Does Lite even provide a GUI?

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                                                                              Does anyone have any recommendations for good epaper/eink devices? A lot of what I’ve seen are ereaders/tablets, which I’m not as interested in.

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                                                                                I got one from Waveshare this month, but you’ll have to get/build the enclosure yourself. My 7” one fits nicely in a 4x6 photo frame.

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                                                                                  What size/interface/battery/input requirements do you have?

                                                                                  Just a monitor, monitor + touch, hdmi/spi, mobile/fixed?

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                                                                                    Because it’s a single company who owns the patents, I think you can get an exhaustive list of products here: https://shopkits.eink.com/

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                                                                                      I’m curious about any that are an assembled thing. Monitors, laptops, phones.

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                                                                                        There used to be an hdmi display made by Waveshare and there were a few phones - Yotaphones.

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                                                                                    I’m so sick of lobsters. From the profiles that post and have (presumably RL) pictures, and from tapping through the invite trees of posters, it feels like there is very little racial, class, and gender diversity here. The ensuing discussion on threads involving diversity are sickening to read and pretty much reinforce this perception. They are orders of magnitude worse around this than threads on HN about this stuff, which is hard to believe.

                                                                                    I doubt I’ll be sticking around. If anyone who operates this thing cares to make it more diverse and less of a dumpster fire and happens to see this, consider that only allowing members to invite members might be partly why diversity is so poor here (at least when it comes to commenters). I’m not advocating to open the floodgates, not totally sure what the solution is (it’s a hard problem in general), just proposing that as a potential problem

                                                                                    But anyway, at least for the meanwhile, this is not for me. Have fun downvoting/flagging me into oblivion

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                                                                                      Most comments here are pretty happy or at least politically indifferent with the change made by Git: where are the “not diversity friendly” comments that reinforce your perception of oppressive content ?

                                                                                      From the profiles that post and have (presumably RL) pictures, and from tapping through the invite trees of posters, it feels like there is very little racial, class, and gender diversity here.

                                                                                      If we are being open to each others, why would you even consider anyone ethnicity, gender or class to judge their arguments ? Should we not aim for the complete opposite: care about the message, not the messenger ?

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                                                                                        I get what you mean, but one of the great things about Lobsters is hearing opinions from subject matter experts. If topics like this are going to keep coming up, I think it’d be nice to have more people familiar with the subject talking about it.

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                                                                                        I doubt I’ll be sticking around either. I already know a few other people who just stopped coming here because of similar issues. I’ve also noticed quite a few of the people in this thread complaining and spouting whataboutisms were also doing the same in that furry post from a couple of days back.

                                                                                        @pushcx Maybe consider how this site is run and the outward image it projects when these types of topics come up. It’s a recurring pattern and not a welcoming one. You’re free to run your site how you want but there is a perception in certain off site circles about this site and the type of user here. If this is an image you’re fine with then that’s fine but don’t expect minorities to stick around, want to join, or recommend the site.

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                                                                                          If I could upvote more than once, I’d give you all I had left.

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                                                                                            it feels like there is very little racial, class, and gender diversity here

                                                                                            I’m a racial minority who grew up in a low social class so I feel this on every tech site (where folks seem to have endless anecdotes about their gifted and talented program in their competitively ranked national high/secondary school, but none about how computers were expensive growing up which made experimenting with them difficult (in my high school, a sizable amount of people could not even afford computers)), and Lobsters is no exception.

                                                                                            But setting that aside for a moment, I think lobsters diversity problems extend even beyond this to technical content as well. I’ve been on Lobsters for a long time (6 years according to my profile), and the Lobsters technical community spends an inordinate amount of time focusing on PLT, especially as related to functional programming, and has a particular dislike of cryptocurrency. While HN and other tech social sites have similar biases, it feels so glaringly obvious on Lobsters that it feels like predictable groupthink. It’s to the point where I feel like I could game the karma system just by adding tags and keywords into a post title.

                                                                                            There’s so much more to tech out there. In particular, despite the huge growth in scientific computing over the last decade, I rarely see anyone here mention anything about Deep Learning, statistics, SAT, or convex optimization. We get the occasional post on 3SAT and Z3 seems to be somewhat popular here, but other than the occasional post on computer graphics, Lobsters largely ignores scientific computing. I never thought about this until your post, but I think the invite system might be a contributing factor.

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                                                                                            Oh wow, I knew trash80 through his chiptune, cool to see him working on this!

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                                                                                              So can we watch Netflix on FreeBSD now?

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                                                                                                I suppose it’s more about the use of FreeBSD inside the Netflix infrastructure.

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                                                                                                  Yeah, that was the point. Netflix happily uses FreeBSD but couldn’t care less about FreeBSD users.

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                                                                                                    Of course not. Why would a for profit media company waste (expensive) resources to support an OS that basically nobody uses on the desktop?

                                                                                                    I know it sounds harsh, but Freebsd desktop use is irrelevant to any company.

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                                                                                                      Gaming on Linux was mostly irrelevant until Steam found a reason to support/foster it (apply pressure on Microsoft + Apple and their app stores). Given that the PS4 (and presumably PS5) uses FreeBSD for it’s OS and Netflix supports that platform there’s probably some incentive there to upstream certain things. Though I presume Sony is happy to keep status quo for the moment.

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                                                                                                        I imagine a lot of the PS4 graphics code they write is under NDA with AMD since they’re not just using off-the-shelf components, but I could be wrong. Has Sony given anything back?

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                                                                                                          Has Sony given anything back?

                                                                                                          Not that I know of but then I’m totally the wrong person to answer that question.

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                                                                                                      Hey, at least they’re in the second largest donor class this year. I’d think FreeBSD Development would deserve more all things considered.

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                                                                                                    Sure You can, In a Linux/Windows/Android VM under Bhyve :p

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                                                                                                    May be 2020 Microsoft will open source it :P

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                                                                                                      It’s a good joke because it’s plausible :)

                                                                                                      Joke’s aside, at this point that could have serious implications for both microsoft and apple. To this day, I am not convinced that present day workstation operative systems offers are much better than what Windows XP could offer. I am including OSX and popular linux distros. Microsoft spend more than a decade pushing users away from it.

                                                                                                      If it were to be made open source, it could be turned into a serious product with a strong value offer.

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                                                                                                        I think this leak will expose the bad code quality of the windows os and will lead to windows’ further demise :D I’m very excited to see in-depth analyses and may be Microsoft may just surprise me.

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                                                                                                          The Windows 2000 source was leaked years ago. IIRC, the users of kuro5hin actually thought it was good quality, with extreme compatibility requirements dragging it down.

                                                                                                          People at Microsoft aren’t stupid, as much as Unix programmers like to think.

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                                                                                                            People examining the code in 4chan threads seem to agree, the code looks to be of a decent quality. Some acummulated 4chan findings can be found here(warning - it’s 4chan, even if there is no nsfw content on that board).

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                                                                                                              Here’s an archived version, in case anyone wants to peruse after the thread is pruned.

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                                                                                                              Do you have a link for that? I think thatd an interesting read. I believe many proprietary software is of bad code quality. That has nothing to with stupidity, but with the corporate culture and business requirements.

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                                                                                                                Sure.

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                                                                                                                  Thanks!

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                                                                                                            Getting all license holders to agree to open source would be tricky. It’s been a while since I looked at the Windows license screen for XP but I suspect MS paid for licenses for a number of applications and libraries.

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                                                                                                              Yeah, Citrix source permeates anything to do with multiple users, and IE started out life as a licensed program. Getting rid of licensing accessories is easy, but core components, not so much.

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                                                                                                          I’m wondering if anything there can help developers of projects like ReactOS.

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                                                                                                            NO! Nononono.

                                                                                                            Please, for any well-meaning people, if you’ve looked at this do not contaminate the ReactOS folks.

                                                                                                            My understanding is they work very hard to have clean reversing efforts, and that exposure to something like this–even a whiff–would taint that work in perhaps legally-significant ways.

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                                                                                                              Well, of course I didn’t mean: copy as much as you can. But maybe there’re some parts of the system which were really tricky to figure out. Like side-effects caused by bugs in original Windows which ended up being features. Obviously I didn’t want to get ReactOS devs into trouble :(

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                                                                                                                No, of course not–I didn’t mean to imply you did.

                                                                                                                I just feel for those folks because screening new devs just got a lot harder.

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                                                                                                                I believe they have had this problem already.

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                                                                                                                  I’m curious, do you have insight into how APIs are tested by the ReactOS team? Is everything done clean-room using specs, or do they run React on a network with Windows machines to test things like workgroups and Active Directory? I would assume that falls into fair use, but I’m no expert.