1. 20

    Look, here’s the thing. If you’re holding 30 million dollars in 250 lines of code that you haven’t audited, then it’s on you. Seriously. It takes any half-decent appsec guy less than one man-day to fleece those 250 lines. At most, that would cost them a few thousands of dollars. They didn’t do it because they wanted it all for free. They didn’t do it because they’re greedy and cheap. They absolutely deserve this.

    I kinda agree with this, honestly. :-\

    1. 2

      I kinda agree with this, honestly. :-\

      That’s because, as your post history on Lobsters has established, you need to get you some ethics and morals.

      I kinda agree with the top comment in the article:

      “ Look, here’s the thing. If you’re holding 30 million dollars in 250 lines of code that you haven’t audited, then it’s on you.”

      Look here’s the thing. If you’ve parked your car on the street like a pleb instead of buying a house with a garage, then its on you.

      Look here’s the thing. If you’re holding a PC and a TV and a washing machine in a house with single glazing on the rear windows, then it’s on you.

      Whilst this was an extremely interesting read and I’m sure awesome fun to pull off, theft is theft. The rule of law is the rule of law. You know that these ETH belong to other people and you have taken them for yourself. That’s theft, and I hope the law catches up with you.

      1. 13

        But the entire point of “smart” contracts is that the code IS the contract, right? Your analogy is flawed. It’s not like stealing a car, it’s like finding a loophole in an agreement (or “dumb” contract) and exploiting it in the courts. That happens literally every day, and it is perfectly legal.

        The difference is that when you have actual humans making the decisions instead of computers you can make more subtle arguments about what was intended instead of being beholden to the most pedantic possible interpretation of the contract.

        1. 14

          This is the correct interpretation. The “smart contract” hype is built around the concept that the blockchain is the judge and the jury: it’s all built on the assumption that the blockchain is incorruptible and perfect. To quote from Gavin Wood’s paper “Ethereum: A Secure Decentralised Generalised Transaction Ledger:”

          [Ethereum has attributes] not often found in the real world. The incorruptibility of judgment, often difficult to find, comes naturally from a disinterested algorithmic interpreter.

          Further:

          …natural language is necessarily vague, information is often lacking, and plain old prejudices are difficult to shake.

          Most ominously, perhaps:

          …the future of law would be heavily affected by [smart contract] systems… Ethereum may be seen as a general implementation of such a crypto-law system.

          Based on these concepts, the idea that they’re building a perfect replacement for law, they implemented a Turing-complete language with no concept of or provision for proofs, and run it on a distributed VM from which no malicious programs can be purged. Brilliant!

          1. 4

            Is it brilliant? I’m not so sure: what sovereign citizens and computer geeks alike seem to believe is that the law is a sequence of perfectly defined rules - which is why the former loves to look for the magical series of words that exempts them from it.

            But in reality the law is often about intent and judgment. If I found a bank that let me put my name on everyone’s account and I did with the purpose of withdrawing their savings, the court would hold a dim view of me saying “but they let me do it!

            1. 4

              That was sarcasm. :)

              1. 3

                thank god. but like the best sarcasm - and I say this with complete sincerity - it’s indistinguishable from what people are claiming both here and in the article.

                1. 1

                  Well note, only the “Brilliant” part was sarcasm. The rest was literally quoting a seminal paper in the space.

            2. 2

              hopefully the interest in contract languages on blockchains will encourage more folks to get involved in formal verification.

            3. 3

              But the entire point of “smart” contracts is that the code IS the contract

              Agreed. The analogies given above were ridiculous:

              Look here’s the thing. If you’ve parked your car on the street like a pleb instead of buying a house with a garage, then its on you.

              This is not a comparison. Try this instead:

              Look here’s the thing. If you’ve parked your limited edition McLaren F1 on the street instead of in your garage, then yeah that was dumb

              But this is still a rubbish analogy because in Ethereum: Code is Law.

              1. 8

                The correct analogy would be to leave the thing unlocked, with the keys in a plastic box inside, and with a notarized affidavit that reads, ‘I, goodger, hereby transfer ownership of this vehicle and its contents to whomsoever may open this box’.

                1. -1

                  Bingo!!

            4. 19

              That’s because, as your post history on Lobsters has established, you need to get you some ethics and morals.

              Says the guy who posted 9/11 truther conspiracies from his blog. Angersock has ethics and morals, and I’m a little disheartened that your ad hominem attack got upvoted.

              1. 6

                There are a few certain types of stories regarding politics and cryptocurrencies that seem to bring out a group of extremely angry and aggressive posters that don’t seem to want to have anything but traditional internet yelling. “Get morals” has been yelled at me any time the US government is brought up and always seems heavily upvoted.

                1. -5

                  Says the guy who posted 9/11 truther conspiracies from his blog

                  And what is wrong with that?

                  9/11 Truthers are called 9/11 Truthers because they aren’t 9/11 Frauds.

                  EDIT: BTW, those downvoting this as “off-topic” might want to downvote @ngoldbaum’s post instead. I didn’t bring up 9/11, he did. I’ll defend myself if called and, and so to quote from elsewhere: It’s been 16 years now and over $300k in research by multiple teams have refuted NIST multiple times — enough is enough.

                  and I’m a little disheartened

                  That’s too bad.

                  It’s what happens to people who don’t understand basic physics.

                  Have fun with the paid sock puppets though.

                  1. 2

                    Damn, I’m a sock puppet after all… Also ad hominem.

                    1. 2

                      me too! #sockpuppet

                      1. -4

                        Keep it up, y’all are going to spend the end of your lives in a prison of your own making.

                        You think smart people can’t see past these fake votes?

                        1. 5

                          It must be very hard living a life where you think every time someone disagrees with you it’s because of a huge conspiracy.

                          I encourage you to talk to a mental health professional.

                          1. -2

                            It must be very hard living a life where you think every time someone disagrees with you it’s because of a huge conspiracy.

                            You misunderstand, I don’t think that.

                            But 9/11 is a huge conspiracy, so on this particular topic it’s perfectly sensible to think that.

                          2. 2

                            I know that this is futile and I’m shouting into the void, but why would you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a sock puppet? These aren’t fake votes I think people are disagreeing with your aggressiveness, there is no reason for this to be a psy-ops campaign just to mess with you.

                            1. -4

                              but why would you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a sock puppet?

                              See my response to your sock puppet friend’s identical question.

                              But, tell me (since now with the fake downvotes nobody can see your response), how much do you get paid to write this stuff?

                              Are you an American? If so, is it enough to sleep at night, knowing that you’re supporting the terrorists who attacked this country on 9/11?

                              1. -3

                                You gonna answer my question or just exercise your downvote button?

                                Think McFly!

                      2. -5

                        Angersock has ethics and morals

                        Yeah, theft is cool man. Totally ethical. Totally moral. And your upvotes totally didn’t appear simultaneously as a bunch of sock puppets upvoted your comment.

                  1. 1

                    time to learn f#?

                    1. -1

                      Online vigilantism can certainly have negative effects, but in a country like the United States, which often refuses to prosecute criminals when they are government employees, it is often the only option available.

                      I’ve also seen examples of vigilantism that have been created by mainstream media. Take the “pizzagate” conspiracy, which most people probably thought had something to do with a pizza restaurant. It turns out that’s only because that’s how the media represented it in the news. I decided to spend an afternoon researching it in depth and discovered that the term has almost nothing to do with restaurants, but instead refers to a code word found in emails leaked by Wikileaks. None of that is mentioned in most MSM articles about the conspiracy.

                      Fast-forward, and we see news stories about a vigilante walking into that pizza restaurant with a gun, and I think we have mostly the MSM, who decided to focus exclusively on a pizza restaurant while ignoring pretty much 98% of what the conspiracy is about, to thank for it.

                      1. 4

                        Actually, it was Alex Jones and colleagues who made up that insane story and pushed it on naive and gullible people. http://thehill.com/homenews/325761-infowars-alex-jones-apologizes-for-pushing-pizzagate-conspiracy-theory

                        1. -1

                          So, first, thanks for that link, as it’s a perfect example of what I was saying. The entire thing is focused on the “Comet Ping Pong” restaurant, which is again, about 1% of what the conspiracy is actually about.

                          Alex Jones is not the origin of the conspiracy, which predates him by probably many years, so if he also misrepresented it, that’s on him.

                          I’ll check out the linked apology video, but here’s also a recent interview from the Joe Rogan show where Joe interviews Alex about pizzagate among various other topics, and in that interview Alex is very clear on this point I’m making, that the conspiracy has little to do with the restaurant (although yes, it is one of the things mentioned in some of the emails).

                          1. 7

                            Alex Jones is a con and people who take him seriously need help. When he is in trouble, he calls his work “performance art”. There is no pizzagate conspiracy, just a money raising hoax for people who like to be frightened.

                            1. -5

                              Alex Jones is a con

                              If he’s a con, he’s far less of a con than the MSM, and unlike the MSM he isn’t responsible for generating fraudulent wars that have destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives. EDIT: I take that back. Looks like he might soon be.

                              He’s also been right more often than the MSM has been, and as your apology video link demonstrates, he actually apologizes when he screws up, unlike the MSM. The MSM issues token apologies for little things, but for launching this country into a bunch of illegitimate wars? Nope.

                              and people who take him seriously need help.

                              People who prefer style over substance need serious help.

                              There is no pizzagate conspiracy

                              Well, the fact that information about a conspiracy exists, is indisputable. That you have no idea what said information is, appears to also be the case.

                              1. 0

                                I support precise use of language, but I also support common sense reading comprehension. “There is no conspiracy” usually means “Conspiracy, which exists, has no relationship with reality”. Your literal interpretation is unhelpful.

                                1. -2

                                  I support precise use of language, but I also support common sense reading comprehension. “There is no conspiracy” usually means “Conspiracy, which exists, has no relationship with reality”.

                                  However you interpret that sentence, it’s unfounded. To comment on something you need to be informed first.

                                  1. [Comment removed by author]

                                    1. -1

                                      If I believed a government conspiracy exists to cover for a massive child sexual abuse ring, I’d certainly dedicate a good portion of my life to bringing it down, including by well-reasoned arguments backed by evidence to anyone who was willing to listen.

                                      Good man.

                                      You claim that the “MSM” is (deliberately?) obscuring the reality of the pizzagate conspiracy. Please enlighten us.

                                      There are two different things being talked about here:

                                      1. Whether the MSM (and yes, please get used to writing that without quotes) is misrepresenting what pizzagate is.
                                      2. Whether pizzagate itself is true.

                                      #1 is easily proven, simply by searching online for pizzagate material. This isn’t difficult, you just avoid everything MSM. Why avoid everything MSM? Well because if any of a number of conspiracy theories are true (e.g. the factually-proven-beyond-all-reasonable-doubt “9/11 was an inside job” conspiracy), then you’ll realize that the MSM is the government’s mouthpiece, pretending to represent a diversity of viewpoints when in fact its agenda is to represent a single viewpoint.

                                      So. If you’re good about avoiding MSM, you’ll stumble upon this wiki, where you can explore what the topic is actually about. There you will eventually discover, by following various links, that not only does “pizzagate” have little to do with a pizza restaurant, but in fact it even has little to do with the term’s origin (Podesta’s leaked emails). Rather, it is a catch-all term for exactly what you termed “a government conspiracy exists to cover for a massive child sexual abuse ring”.

                                      If you aren’t turned away by this point by your own mental conditioning and brainwashing, you might continue exploring the subject further, finding article after article after article containing evidence supporting various aspects of the theory, and at some point you’ll remember that it’s not at all surprising to find powerful people in powerful organizations accused and proven guilty of molesting children (cough Catholic Church cough).

                                      Now I am not saying #2 is true, but I am saying that you have been mislead about what pizzagate is (click the links and verify for yourself), and that there is certainly plenty of evidence to consider not all but perhaps some aspects of the narrative to be true.

                                      Safe travels to you in exploring the world of conspiracy theories, I’ve written a handy guide for keeping yourself sane while doing it.

                                      1. 1

                                        So let’s see if I got this right. 9/11 was an inside job, and the “MSM” is covering it up, hence “pizzagate” is also covered up. Although “pizzagate” might be false.

                                        1. -1

                                          Troll harder @apy!

                                          1. -1

                                            I’m dismayed that you think I’m a sock puppet. I would think the lack of spelling errors should make it obvious I’m not @apy. Also, trolling?

                                            1. 0

                                              I’m dismayed that you think I’m a sock puppet.

                                              Invited to Lobsters by @apy with 3 comments in your life, two of which are in this thread. Yeah, I think you’re either a sock puppet or a stooge.

                                              1. -1

                                                I’m not @apy, although I did once work with him IRL. You seem pretty conspirational… But be that as it may,. I’m in all honesty interested in your line of reasoning. Especially these quotes; “[Since some] conspiracy theories are true (e.g. the factually-proven-beyond-all-reasonable-doubt “9/11 was an inside job” conspiracy), then you’ll realize that the MSM is the government’s mouthpiece” and “Now I am not saying [pizzagate] is true, but I am saying that you have been mislead about what pizzagate is” So if this is true (the Government controls mass media), how come you can find the Truth on the internet? Seems to me the Govenment is doing a pretty good job on controlling e.g. Google.

                                                1. 0

                                                  So if this is true (the Government controls mass media), how come you can find the Truth on the internet?

                                                  How do you ask me such dumb questions? Honestly?

                                                  This is why I downvote you as trolling, because I can think of no other explanation.

                                                  Where on Earth did you get the idea that MSM includes the entire Internet?

                                                  And what on Earth does that have to do with the actual content that I’ve linked to?

                                                  Troll harder!

                                                  1. 1

                                                    I honestly don’t think the question is dumb. I might be dumb, but I don’t understand your mental model of how the world works. Like if the government controls the “MSM”, how come it can’t control Google/Youtube the same way? Or the entire internet, for that matter? I mean, if you can pull off a false flag 9/11, getting some videos taken down from Youtube should be a piece of cake?

                                                    1. 1

                                                      You know, those are much better questions, and they actually do have very good answers (although if you think videos aren’t taken down from YT… you haven’t been paying attention), but, I unfortunately have spent more than enough energy answering people’s questions here and pointing them down roads that they are free to explore on their own.

                                                      If I had all the time in the world I would gladly answer. But the answer is (a) complicated, (b) I don’t have all of it, and (c) I have to run. Sorry.

                                      2. -1

                                        Adding this video as well, which I just came across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP1MtaSIePk

                                  2. 0

                                    Could you give me 5 factual things he’s been right about that the MSM hasn’t?

                                    (I take it we’re just ignoring his snake oil and pills business that he profits from?)

                                    1. -1

                                      Yeah, 9/11 being an inside job is the one that stands out most to me and puts him above most other American journalists.

                                      I honestly don’t watch him enough to come up with a longer comparison list than that. But being right on 9/11 goes a very long way.

                          1. 4

                            takeaway from this should be; process_info/1 is not what you want. problem is it loops over (most of) the process_info/2 variants.