1. 2

    Don’t have them. If you must, have a small medicine ball or something with a little bit of weight that people hold in front of them in order to talk. If you’re already thinking how unfair that is because people who are physically stronger can talk longer, you’ve already begun to overthink it.

    1. 3

      I’ll bite. I predict full AI for self-driving cars and radiologists will arrive at the same time Linux overtakes Windows on the desktop.

      I’ve never liked the term Artificial Intelligence because it communicates the wrong message. Neural Network is a better term, but if course it doesn’t sell as well.

      This is all a repeat of the hype around AI back in the 80’s.

      1. 3

        At least this time there’s no Lisp Machines to kill…

      1. 1

        As an American, I was really confused by the date of this article. I kept thinking to myself, “Wow, this post is from January and it just now made it to lobste.rs?” Then I clicked on the News homepage to see what other news they had, and promptly realized they’re using the European format (01.05.2018) on the article, but a less ambiguous format (May 01, 2018) for the News homepage.

        1. 22

          It’s not the “European” format. It’s the international format. The US, of course, needs to be a snowflake.

          1. 18

            YYYY-MM-DD is the one true international date format! :-)

            DMY is definitely more widespread than MDY, I’ll agree, but it isn’t used in most of East Asia, besides the US. People in countries that don’t use either of those often find it ambiguous whether a year-last date was intended as a “European-style” or “American-style” date (which in my limited experience is what Japanese and Chinese call those two formats), since both styles are foreign. You can even find examples of all three styles on Chinese universities’ English-language pages…

            1. 5

              Going by user population size, by international standards, and by rationality (sort lexicographically!), YYYY-MM-DD is probably the only format that deserves to be called international. It’s also much less ambiguous than month-first and date-first, given that the US and Europe do the opposite thing but write it the same way. I suppose someone could write YYYY-DD-MM but I don’t remember having seen this, while I definitely am confused about whether someone is writing in the European/US style from time to time.

              This is as an American, born and raised. :) I still prefer to write MM/DD, though, because we speak dates that way. Maybe it’s different in other languages.

              EDIT: Actually, according to Wikipedia, DMY is used by the most people! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

              1. 4

                Other than ISO 8601, I prefer DMY with the month written as a three-letter abbreviation. ex: 01 May 2018. It prevents the confusion over whether 01 is the first day of the month or the first month of the year, and reads in the order one typically cares about while preserving the rank order of the components. When I need a checksum I put the day of the week in front: Tue 01 May 2018. That lets me be confident I didn’t make a transcription error and lets the person I’m communicating with check my work if they need to.

                1. 2

                  Good point, I definitely think the day of the week as checksum is underused. I always try to include it in scheduling emails in case I mistype a number.

                  1. 2

                    MDY and DMY are equally unambiguous when the month is written as an abbreviation, but a numeric month papers over language differences: It doesn’t matter if you call it “Aug” or “八月”, it’s 8.

                    (That requires everyone to standardize on the Hindu-Arabic numerals, but, in practice, that seems like it’s happened, even in places which don’t use the Latin alphabet.)

                  2. 3

                    In Hungary, though we are in Europe, we don’t use the “European format”. The hungarian standard format is “YYYY. MM. DD.”. I prefer the ISO format for anything international, as it is easy to recognize from the dashes, and avoids confusion. (In my heart I know that our format is the one true format, but I’m happy the ISO has also recognized it! 😉)

                    Edit: To me the D M Y format can be justified, though for me Y M D seems more logical. (specifying a time instance from the specific to the generic, or from the generic to the specific range can both be ok) What I cannot grasp is how the M D Y format appeared.

                    1. 3

                      What I cannot grasp is how the M D Y format appeared.

                      The tentative progression I pieced together last time I looked into it, though note that this is definitely not scientific grade historical research, is something like this:

                      1. When talking about a date without the year, English has for centuries used both “May 1st” and “1st May” (or “1st of May”), unlike some languages where one or the other order strongly predominates. Nowadays there’s a strong UK/US split on that one, but in 18th-19th century England they were both common;

                      2. it seems to have been common for authors to form a fully qualified date by just tacking on the year to however they normally wrote the month/day, so some wrote “May 5th, 1855” and others “5th May, 1855”;

                      3. fairly early on, the “May 5th” and “May 5th, 1755” forms seem to have become dominant in the US for whatever reason; and finally

                      4. much later, when writing dates in fully numerical format became a thing, Americans kept the same MDY order that they had gotten used to for the written-out dates.

                2. 1

                  In my mind if it’s not the American standard it must be the European standard. Even it encompasses more than Europe. I understand that’s probably not the best way to think of things.

                  1. 6

                    As an Australian, I get pretty annoyed every time I read a US article and have to deal with the mental switch. Even worse because I work for a US company and people throw around “we’re doing this 6/5”, and that doesn’t even look like a date to my eyes — we never just do D/M, so “number/number” looks like a fraction. once I work out it’s a date, I realise it’s an American thing and realise it must be M/D.

                  2. 1

                    I use YYYY-MM-DD for no other reason other than it’s sorts files nicely in a folder.

                1. 2

                  I have friends over at GihHub. Something doesn’t ring true about this article. If you need help, send me a message. I’m pretty sure there’s an avenue to be able to help you folks regain control.

                  1. 5

                    I love how terrible it looks on a phone :) Not responsive at all.

                    Well done, sir!

                    1. 2

                      The whole Python 2/3 debacle is why I gravitated to Ruby, which has its own set of warts.

                      So what are the lessons learned?

                      1. 2

                        Incidently, the reason I moved from Ruby was the 1.8 era where I think there was also a rails 2/3 upgrade at the same time, wasn’t fun. Lesson learned is the one of the biggest obstacles of our job is unsupported software, be it a library or a language, as long as it works and solves your problem, it’s not the end of the world.

                        And just because software is marked as unsupported, it doesn’t mean all the knowledge for X software projects also disappears over night.

                        Or we can just write everything in assembly.

                        1. 1

                          No matter what tools you choose to use there are going to be things you don’t like about them. And that’s okay, you just have to pick a set of warts you can live with.

                        1. 6

                          I don’t know what will happen in the next few years, but having been in technology professionally for almost 30 years, I think these things will remain true and help find the “next big thing”:

                          • Universities will continue to crank out students that are too verbose in their writing. The goal in school is “2000 word essay on such and such”. In the working world, brevity and clarity are better.
                          • Helping others is the best way I know how to keep up-to-date. People reciprocate when they know you are approachable.
                          • Age ought not to matter. Do not talk down to folks, and don’t put people on a pedistal either. Treat everyone with respect. I live by the motto I learned from the late Dr. Walter Martin: “I respect a person’s right to believe whatever they want, all I ask is they respect my right to belive whatever I want”.
                          • Attending and/or running a local meetup/club is worth the time and effort.
                          • Care about your tools. Master some, be familiar with others, and don’t be afraid to ask for help with things you do not use very often.
                          • If you tend to be an introvert, learn to talk more. If you tend to be an extrovert, learn to listen more.
                          • Vim and Emacs will still be around. So will email.
                          • Code reviews are hard, but they’re awesome. Keep doing them.
                          • Attend conferences. If you have not given a talk and are afraid to, join a local Toastmasters.org club. People that can do public speaking will always go further in their career than those who chose not to speak.
                          • Learn the basics of negotiating. I recommend an old series entitled “Roger Dawson’s Power Negotiating”. It’s corny, and only about the first half is worth listening to. You’ll be surprised how many people who are technically inferior to you will do better and have less conflict in life who know how to structure win/win negotiations. You’ll also be shocked how often we are always negotiating, in virtually every aspect of life.
                          • It still will not be the “Year of the Linux Desktop” :)
                          1. 2

                            Click “Next” in the top-left corner. I thought my ad blocker had blocked the article.

                            1. 2

                              or use the arrow keys

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                              Its escape from the laboratory into the environment at large was perhaps more because of the lack of credible alternatives that enjoyed the support of the computer industry as it was to the simplicity and inherent scalability of its design.

                              This is downright humorous. The OSI stack was not only credible, it was all-but-anointed in the minds of governments and organizations. There’s a reason people attempt to retrofit the seven-layer OSI model onto the very loosely-layered TCP/IP stack: OSI was supposed to win, and it seems some people never really adapted to the fact a simpler model pulled the rug out from under it.

                              It certainly seems as if the Internet is sealing up its once very loose seams. The network that carries our packets is no longer a trusted associate that enables communications. It is instead viewed as a toxic hostile environment that simply cannot be trusted.

                              No more than the mail service cannot be trusted.

                              This quote is a bit too over-the-top, in that it assumes a false dichotomy, and forgets that people cover up and lock things away and do not reveal things all the time, even when we don’t have specific people we’re hiding them from. This is especially true when the default is to hide communications, as when you mail letters: Letters sealed in envelopes are the default, postcards are unusual. Does that mean we consider the postal service to be toxic and hostile? No, it means we picked a sensible default for mail.

                              Picking these defaults is important: If everyone encrypts, nobody who encrypts draws attention to themselves, and, what’s more, people regard privacy as normal, as opposed to something you have to justify. After all, do you think someone who lives in a home with opaque walls is some weirdo creep who must be doing something in there to justify the opacity of their walls? No, because transparent walls are highly unusual.

                              If the network is no longer the rich vein of data that it used to be, then the data collected by content servers is a more than ample replacement. If the large content factories have collected such a rich profile of my activities, then it seems entirely logical that they will be placed under considerable pressure to selectively share that profile with others.

                              And other pressure can be placed on those companies which run such silos to not store so much data in the first place. The EU is already making moves in this direction.

                              1. 3

                                I remember being a confused student back in the early 90’s memorizing the OSI model, only to realize years later that TCP/IP beat out IPX/SPX (Novell) and NetBEUI (Microsoft) because it was simpler.

                                The common, limiting factor of adopting “better” models is always the same thing: people.

                              1. 8

                                Sort of an aside discussion, but the author’s choice to distribute the code as a Docker image: is that becoming a thing now?

                                I’m notorious among my peers for installing and trying everything under the sun, and usually having to blow out and reinstall my computer about once a year (usually coinciding with Apple’s release of an updated MacOS). Maybe I’m late to the party, but Docker images are a much cleaner way of distributing projects in a working environment, are they not?

                                1. 13

                                  This feels like the kind of thing I’d be grumpy about if I were any older; software distribution is one of our oldest and therefore most-studied problems. Java tried to solve it with a universal runtime. Package managers try to solve it with an army of maintainers who manage dependencies. Giving up on all that and bundling the entirety of latex and all its dependencies (one of the intermediate images is 3 point 23 fucking gigs!) just to distribute a 279 line style file and make it easier to use feels… kind of excessive?

                                  That said, I’m not old and grumpy and this is awesome. I kind of hope that this becomes a thing, it’s easy to install and easy to remove (and know that you’ve left no traces on your system) and this image will presumably be usable for a very long time.

                                  EDIT: I wrote the above comment while I was waiting for the image to finish downloading. It’s now finished and the final image takes up 5.63GB of my disk space. I don’t mind for this one-off package but would certainly mind if this method of distribution started catching on. Maybe we should just all use nix?

                                  1. 3

                                    I wrote the above comment while I was waiting for the image to finish downloading. It’s now finished and the final image takes up 5.63GB of my disk space. I don’t mind for this one-off package but would certainly mind if this method of distribution started catching on. Maybe we should just all use nix?

                                    Docker has some mechanisms for sharing significant parts of those images… at least if they’re created from the same base. The problem obviously is that people are free to do whatever, so that sharing is far from optimal.

                                    1. 1

                                      Agreed, I assumed this was going to be something like a 200 python script with maybe 2 or 3 dependencies.

                                    2. 4

                                      A docker image is the new curl|sh install method.

                                      Basically ignore any concerns about security, updates, ‘I want this shit now Ma.’

                                      1. 4

                                        A random docker image is less likely to fuck up your home dir, though.

                                        1. 2

                                          I’ve spent a lot more time working with the shell than Docker. I find this Docker image a lot easier to understand and verify than various things I’ve been told to curl | sh.

                                          1. 1

                                            Couldn’t you just download and verify a script with curl -o filename.sh http://domain.name/filename.sh? How does a random Docker image end up being easier to verify? With a script you can just read through it, and verify what it does. With a Docker image you basically have to trust an image from 2014 of an entire operating system.

                                            This honestly looks like one of the worst candidates for a Docker image. You have a tiny plaintext file which is all this is installing, and you are being told to download a multi gigabyte blob. I can understand why some people recommend using Docker for development, and running things and places you might not have control of the entire system, it here just seems unnecessary here.

                                            1. 1

                                              I don’t see how it’s installing just a style. It’s installing TeX, which is a big hairy package.

                                              When I pull down the install for rustup, I end up with a 360 line shell script, which isn’t super easy to verify. For haskell’s stack, it’s 720. I swear I’ve seen 1500 before.

                                          2. 1

                                            Agree re security (you could get hacked) but at least it won’t accidentally wipe your hard drive while trying to uninstall (as has happened a few timed I’m aware of).

                                          3. 3

                                            In this case especially, as the instructions to install and configure are pretty painful:


                                            Oh, there are none. But there is this:


                                            As an aside, the Docker image has a couple of features I’m quite proud of (in a small way).

                                            1. The default command of the container outputs help text.

                                            2. If the convert_images.sh script spots a Makefile, it runs it, eg:


                                            which reduces build time significantly if you have a lot of images.

                                            1. 4

                                              Just scrolling through that second link gives me anxiety; oh my god this is going to go wrong in fifty different ways. Getting it all together in a configured package (docker image) was pretty smart.

                                              1. 3

                                                I don’t know… Looking at the second link, the install instructions are actually fairly simple if you have TeX and the dependencies installed. Even if you don’t, like it’s just a LaTeX distribution, the tikz package, and the xcolor-solarized package.

                                                In which case the instructions are only:

                                                $ cd ${LATEX_ROOT}/texmf/tex/latex && git clone https://github.com/Jubobs/gitdags.git
                                                $ kpsewhich gitdags.sty   # Check to see if gitdags.sty can be seen by TeX

                                                I feel like an entire Docker container is a little overkill. Might be an OK way to try the software, especially if you don’t have a TeX distribution installed, but it wouldn’t be a good way to actually use it.

                                                1. 1

                                                  From the link:

                                                  ‘First, do NOT use apt-get to install. The best is to install TexLive from the Tex Users Groug (TUG).’

                                                  1. 1

                                                    Yeah like I said, the instructions are fairly simple if you have a TeX distribution Installed. If that version does happened to be from a distribution, I’m sure it works anyways - he did say the best way.

                                                    If you don’t happen to have TeX installed, it’s not that complicated to install it from manually from TUG anyways.

                                                  2. 1

                                                    Looking at the second link, the install instructions are actually fairly simple if you have TeX and the dependencies installed

                                                    Yeah, I already have TeX on my system, so I don’t really see what the problem is.

                                                  3. 1

                                                    The default command of the container outputs help text.

                                                    I haven’t seen that before; for a “packaging” container (rather than an “app deployment” container) it’s a nice touch I’ll be copying, thanks :-)

                                                  4. 2

                                                    I’ve used this very package with nix on OS X, I think a docker image is… a bit over the top personally. It wasn’t that bad to install and setup compared to any other latex package.

                                                    1. 2

                                                      Life got in the way the last two weeks, so I’ve made little progress on what I said I’d do two weeks ago https://lobste.rs/s/rptmkp/what_are_you_working_on_this_week#c_309kpj

                                                      Going to resume learning by going through Mark Myers’ book on Javascript: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H1W9I6C

                                                      Also going to pause pod/screencasting at least this week.

                                                      1. 4

                                                        I’ve decided to get back into coding this week. I’ve tried many, many times since the 80’s but I always seem to derail myself. I suppose I’m a glutton for punishment because I keep coming back to try again. Next year I will be 50 (yikes! I did not think I would be saying that so soon) so I’d like to actually build something of substance that I can be proud of.

                                                        I really enjoy talking to other coders, so I’m going to re-setup my microphone and start screencasting/podcasting again. If anyone would like to be a guest or would like to suggest someone just drop me a line at miles@coderpath.com. Website(s) will go live at http://coderpath.com and http://milesforrest.com when I’m ready to publish.

                                                        1. 1

                                                          Wow. You’re old.

                                                          1. 1

                                                            …and I’m not ever smart or good looking either. Not like you, of course ;)

                                                        1. 2

                                                          Those who do not understand WebApps are condemned to reinvent them, poorly.

                                                          • Paraphrasing Henry Spencer
                                                          1. 6

                                                            I love Linux, but my machine is still a MacBook Pro using VMWare to run Linux. I started using Linux in 1999, but in 2006 I jumped to the Mac simply because I wanted access to better commercial software and also because I was tired of having the hardware not work 100% of the time.

                                                            I want to use Linux exclusively, and have had my eye on the exit door for quite some time, but I’m just not willing to spend my time tinkering on stuff. Linux works awesome on servers, and it is all I will use in addition to other *nix variants, but for now my GUI’s going to be a Mac.

                                                            1. 4

                                                              I think this is a rational choice as a developer.

                                                              That said, I operate in a reverse fashion, and find no real harm to my day to day. I run Linux on the desktop, and then VMWare + Win10 for the occasional commercial app. The Windows-era holdovers for me include my Fujitsu scanner software, GotoMeeting, Apple iTunes, Adobe Photoshop CS, Adobe Acrobat, and the MS Office suite.

                                                              I find I boot my Windows 10 VM about once every few weeks, since 95%+ of the time, I can run on free software or non-free ports to Linux.

                                                              I have a dedicated Mac Mini that I run 24x7 because, frustratingly, there is some Apple software that I wish I could access via VM, but can’t. This includes XCode, Keynote, and Pages. Lately, I use a remote access software to use this stuff from my Linux machine in the odd moments that I need it. But given that Apple makes OSX so frustratingly hard to virtualize, and given that Apple has several important Apple-only commercial apps, I can see why many otherwise-Linux users feel forced into running OSX. I really hope these folks recognize their hand is more forced by Apple’s stance on virtualization and insistence on non-free development tools than by Linux’s historical hardware support.

                                                              Of all of these, XCode is the real holdover. Keynote and Pages have reasonable iOS and web (iCloud) editions, so with either a web browser or an iPad, one could bridge these somewhat easily. But, XCode still requires OSX, and I imagine this ends up being a pretty serious deal breaker for native iOS developers. I really wish Apple would sponsor development of XCode-only OSX VMs in the same way Microsoft does the same for historical IE versions needed by web developers.

                                                              1. 3

                                                                my machine is still a MacBook Pro using VMWare to run Linux.

                                                                I wish there were more programs that used Apple’s native Hypervisor.framework so you could run VMs without 3rd party kernel drivers.

                                                                So far only xhyve exists, but it’s full of rough edges. There was another app, Veertu, that was even on the app store, but they renamed it and changed its focus into some vaporware bullshit: https://veertu.com.

                                                                Unfortunately I don’t think Apple has a 1st party solution for virtual networking (they don’t even ship a tun/tap driver), but sometimes you can live without. Apple has a solution for VPNs, so you can install VPNs programs without tun/tap drivers that don’t run as root, but I don’t know yet if you can abuse that for virtual networking. I think you can, though.

                                                                VMware is still a dream compared to VirtualBox, which is a total shitshow, but even VMware has its warts. There’s always something wrong when you install VMware on a mac. Power consumption used to go up the roof. That’s sort of fixed now, but it has other problems. For example, merely installing VMware increases input lag. You don’t even have to be running any VMs. I am very sensitive to input lag, and it’s immediately obvious to me that there’s something wrong.

                                                                I haven’t tried Parallels. Since it’s consumer/Windows focused I doubt it’s what I need. For example vagrant support is simply not there and I doubt it can run OpenBSD/Solaris well, but I should try it one day. All these GUI apps make me nauseous. Xhyve has the best user experience of all (just a CLI program).

                                                                1. 2

                                                                  My work uses Parallels and I can’t stand using it for Linux. I don’t think it supports port forwarding like VirtualBox (and probably VMware). I couldn’t get it to allow me to SSH into the VM.

                                                                  Parallels is also bad for power consumption. I would avoid it.

                                                                  1. 1

                                                                    Thanks, awful as expected.

                                                              1. 1

                                                                Is it time to move back to jQuery and Prototype.js? If these mysterious patents are about things like “virtual DOM”, comparing trees of state or something derived from FRP, then using Vue, Preact, Angular 2, Cycle, Riot, Elm, reflex-dom will infinge them too.

                                                                Then let’s wait 20-30 years until these patents expire and everyone finally can use these nice state-management things.

                                                                1. [Comment removed by author]

                                                                  1. 1

                                                                    social contract of open source

                                                                    This is something new.

                                                                    1. 5

                                                                      New? Not really. Debian has a well-stated social contract: https://www.debian.org/social_contract

                                                                      1. 3

                                                                        Huh. It’s Debian’s “social contract”. Do you see the difference between somebody publishing “a set of commitments that we agree to abide by” and a non-existing unspecified thing that the poster above requires Facebook to abide by just because they published and maintain some open source code?

                                                                    2. 1

                                                                      So, the issue is that they deliberately added this “patent clause” to induce fear to everyone who thinks about suing Facebook? And not that using React is risky?

                                                                    3. 3

                                                                      Does Facebook actually have patents covering React? I’ve looked around a few times and have never seen a link to an actual patent covering it. I would assume there’s gobs of prior art for anything going on in there.

                                                                      1. 5

                                                                        AFAIK they’ve never stated public which ones, if any.

                                                                        Submarine patents are a thing, sadly.

                                                                      2. 2

                                                                        And yet, there are a number of big companies which undoubtedly have big legal teams, and which seem to be okay with using React somewhere. Just cherry-picking some from the list [0]

                                                                        Airbnb, American Express, Chrysler, Atlassian, eBay, Expedia, Microsoft, NHL, Netflix, New York Times, Salesforce, Twitter, Visa, Walmart… At least some of these companies must have had their legal teams look at the license and decide it was okay to use to use React. Which makes me wonder if the hysteria (this is a bit of hyperbole, but it does seem to have some people really worked up) is justified.

                                                                        [0] https://github.com/facebook/react/wiki/sites-using-react

                                                                        1. 8

                                                                          You’re assuming they’re using the “off-the-shelf” license. There’s nothing preventing them from negotiating a different license with Facebook. Now, I haven’t seen anything showing that this has happened, but it’s a fairly common practice to have individualized contracts with traditional commercial software, so it wouldn’t shock me.

                                                                          1. 3

                                                                            It would surprise me, though - why would Facebook enter into an agreement with these big name companies that altered the React license out of Facebook’s favor? I don’t think all these companies did that (and I didn’t list every large or well-known company that’s on that link, by the way), and unless they’re paying FB to use React I just don’t know why FB legal would bother with all the work. Individual negotations with legal teams at all these big companies to reach a mutually agreeable license, just so a dev team can use React? It seems really unlikely. Just as unlikely as all these companies paying FB to get some kind of commerical license for React - when there is no suggestion that such a thing exists.

                                                                            1. 2

                                                                              I assume they are paying. Just because things don’t have a price list or an explicit offer of a commercial license doesn’t mean you can’t get one.

                                                                              1. 2

                                                                                Right, I get that. I just don’t think it’s actually happening. Since there’s no evidence either way I guess we won’t be able to figure it out!

                                                                      1. 2

                                                                        I have a grandfathered plan on GMail (used to be called “Google Apps for Your Domain”).

                                                                        1. 1

                                                                          My first thought: “Wait, is this The Onion?” :)

                                                                          1. 6

                                                                            I am convinced we keep making the same mistakes over and over again trying to teach software engineering, but never really get down to the nub of the problem: how to transfer tacit knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge)

                                                                            I think the answer lies somewhere in his observation that “Process can’t be taught: it has to be mentored”. Maybe we need to learn from the trades, where a student alternates working alongside a journeyman coder and formal book learning.

                                                                            1. 2

                                                                              It doesn’t even have to be tacit, it can just require interactive conversation: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/Naur.pdf

                                                                            1. 5

                                                                              I took a similar road two years ago after swapping HTTP + SSE by Websockets using Erlang’s cowboy. Being able to publish and suscribe and topics gives you a better place where to start than Websockets. My main issue with MQTT was developers don’t want to deal with other protocol apart from HTTP.

                                                                              If you have some time I recommend that you check the best Erlang MQTT broker I know: VerneMQ. You can easily create clusters that deal with network partitions.

                                                                              1. 4

                                                                                My main issue with MQTT was developers don’t want to deal with other protocol apart from HTTP.

                                                                                I have a new service I will be launching sometime in the new year, and I am wanting to promote IPv6 by having two ways to get premium access: 1) Charge a monthly fee 2) Have folks connect to the site over IPv6. All they’d have to do to “pay” for the service is login via IPv6 at least once a month, and their account would be accessible from IPv4 as well.

                                                                                Perhaps this strategy or something similar might encourage adoption of MQTT as well?

                                                                                1. 1

                                                                                  Thank you for the recommendation. We’re doing something similar too and we’re reaching the limits of Mosquitto as it doesn’t have support for clusters.