1. 9

    This is a bold statement, I do quite a bit of ssh -X work, even thousands of miles distant from the server. I do very much wish ssh -X could forward sound somehow, but I certainly couldn’t live without X’s network transparency.

    1. 6

      Curious, what do you use it for? Every time I tried it, the experience was pain-stakingly slow.

      1. 7

        I find it okay for running things that aren’t fully interactive applications. For example I mainly run the terminal version of R on a remote server, but it’s nice that X’s network transparency means I can still do plot() and have a plot pop up.

        1. 5

          Have you tried SSH compression? I normally use ssh -YC.

          1. 4

            Compression can’t do anything about latency, and latency impacts X11 a lot since it’s an extremely chatty protocol.

            1. 4

              There are some attempts to stick a caching proxy in the path to reduce the chattiness, since X11 is often chatty in pretty naive ways that ought to be fixable with a sufficiently protocol-aware caching server. I’ve heard good things about NX, but last time I tried to use it, the installation was messy.

              1. 1

                There’s a difference between latency (what you talk about) and speed (what I replied to). X11 mainly transfers an obscene amount of bitmaps.

                1. 1

                  Both latency and bandwidth impact perceived speed.

          2. 6

            Seconded. Decades after, it’s still the best “remote desktop” experience out there.

            1. 3

              I regularly use it when I am on a Mac and want to use some Linux-only software (primarily scientific software). Since the machines that I run it on are a few floors up or down, it works magnificently well. Of course, I could run a Linux desktop in a VM, but it is nicer having the applications directly on the Mac desktop.

              Unfortunately, Apple does not seem to care at all about XQuartz anymore (can’t sell it to the animoji crowd) and XQuartz on HiDPI is just a PITA. Moreover, there is a bug in Sierra/High Sierra where the location menu (you can’t make this up) steals the focus of XQuartz all the time:

              https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7964085

              So regretfully, X11 is out for me soon.

              1. 3

                Second. I have a Fibre connection at home. I’ve found X11 forwarding works great for a lot of simply GTK applications (EasyTag), file managers, etc.

                Running my IntelliJ IDE or Firefox over X11/openvpn was pretty painfully slow, and IntelliJ became buggy, but that might have just been OpenVPN. Locally within the same building, X11 forwarding worked fine.

                I’ve given Wayland/Weston a shot on my home theater PC with the xwayland module for backward compatibility. It works .. all right. Almost all my games work (humble/steam) thankfully, but I have very few native wayland applications. Kodi is still glitchy, and I know Weston is meant to just be a reference implementation, but it’s still kinda garbage. There also don’t appear to be any wayland display managers on Void Linux, so if I want to display a login screen, it has to start X, then switch to Wayland.

                I’ve seen the Wayland/X talk and I agree, X has a lot of garbage in it and we should move forward. At the same time, it’s still not ready for prime time. You can’t say, “Well you can implement RDP” or some other type of remote composition and then hand wave it away.

                I’ll probably give Wayland/Sway a try when I get my new laptop to see if it works better on Gentoo.

                1. 2

                  No hand waving necessary, Weston does implement RDP :)

              1. 9

                I can’t agree. I’ve been using my IDE (Qt Creator!) over networked X11 and it worked really well (though the VPN used to freeze and there’s no session management, so I eventually stopped). Similarly, running Firefox on servers remotely is sometimes indispensable. What’s there to miss?

                1. 2

                  The big question here seems to be: how will it make money if not by making you a product like Facebook does it? Ads?

                  It seems to me that a (primarily?) self-hosted, decentralized solution is the only sensible way out, and it comes with the obvious downsides: a/ people don’t like things that can’t be easily regulated, b/ it’s hard to gain a market share with this unless your social group is a bunch of nerds.

                  Maybe actually hanging out with your friends in real life and sharing information the old-school way, or simply engaging more in direct messaging, for which there are privacy-focused platforms, is the best choice you have. In the end, people tend to share very superficious things on Facebook and fish for attention (been there) instead of engaging you directly in a meaningful way.

                  What is it that you’re really missing?

                  1. 5

                    Not everything has to make money.

                    1. 6

                      Not everything can afford to lose money.

                      1. 2

                        It costs so little to run a small instance that a few small donations often end up funding the whole operation. You can literally run pleroma on a raspberry pi which is a federated solution not decentralized but also a lot LESS centralized than say one website that one person hosts.

                        1. 1

                          Heck, my brother runs his own website (a fork, if that’s the right word to use, of lobste.rs) off of a computer he has hooked up in his closet. It’s not particularly cost-prohibitive to run a website unless it’s absolutely massive.

                          1. 2

                            If it’s public, please add it to the list of sister sites: https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters/wiki

                      2. 1

                        I don’t think it needs to make money at all, hence the Wikipedia proposal. But it needs to keep the lights on.

                      3. 2

                        What I’m really missing is the ability to easily organize somewhat distributed groups of friends and stay updated on their lives. By organize I mean take a group of friends where 2 or 3 live in NJ and 3 or 4 live around NYC, get some kind of a group chat going, and land on a time/place to meet.

                        I’ve been doing the old school thing for these past 8 months, and what I’ve discovered is that

                        1. email is a pretty good platform for carrying out long-format discussions
                        2. my flipphone has terrible audio quality and weak signal to the point where it hampers conversations
                        3. the inability to quickly shoot off a text message on the flip phone is more debilitating than originally imagined
                        4. If I’m going back to NY and want to hang out with people, I just ask one of my friends there to use his FB or phone to organize a time and place to catch up, shifting the burden and the price of being on FB onto him

                        Answering your question helped me realize that something like a simple, standalone alternative to FB messenger and FB events might do the trick. The two biggest barriers I see are:

                        1. Network effects, obviously
                        2. How to pay for this

                        In regards to 2 - is it possible the Wikipedia model would work? Essentially, donations? That would allow the platform to potentially be open source which would strengthen any claims it make towards privacy.

                        1. 2

                          it’s always felt like the obvious solution to make money is to charge money for a subscription.

                          But app.net tried this and failed pretty hard. Wonder if it’s ever possible. I would totally pay money to get ad-free Facebook/Twitter, but that would go against their overall business models.

                        1. 1

                          More money, more health, more “side” projects done.

                          1. 2

                            Long way to go but looks nice enough. Signed, author of another custom-written IRC client.

                            Looking forward towards a stable release of Myrddin.

                            1. 3

                              Both Exceptional (work from home) and Abhorrent (stopped doing my own projects) because this scale is silly.

                              1. 5

                                And proprietary driver users have the gall to reward Nvidia for their behavior by giving them hundreds of dollars for their GPUs, then come to me and ask me to deal with their bullshit for free. Well, fuck you, too.

                                Boy, is he mad.

                                Strangely enough, nVidia seems to be the only vendor pushing for HDR and DeepColor.

                                1. 4

                                  Not to mention pushing performance; the 1080Ti and Titan Xp(p) maybe overpriced and from an evil company, but those products have literally no competition at all.

                                  1. 1

                                    Yeah, but most people aren’t getting those, they are getting cards with definite AMD equivalents like the 1050/1060.

                                1. 4

                                  So, are there, say, naked children in the blockchain yet? Either they are or they will be…

                                  1. 4

                                    Yeah, the bitcoin blockchain has URLs for pedophile sites. I don’t know if those sites are still up, but the urls will be there forever.

                                  1. 6

                                    Now if only it were of any use to most developers, as it seems to be tightly coupled to macOS.

                                    1. 8

                                      While I know plenty of developers who are on Windows or Linux, I think implying it’s of no use to most developers is a bit of a stretch. The overwhelming majority of web developers I know use Macs, as do most of the mobile developers I know. They combined may be a strict minority, but it should still easily get plenty of use.

                                      1. 5

                                        Anecdata: of the ten laptop backs I can see, all have apple logos on them. They’re not all programmers, but there was definitely some syntax highlighting in the mix when I walked by.

                                        1. 1

                                          Web and mobile developers are irrelevant here, and a minority. Okay, you have a bias from what you see. But most programmers are on Windows, and a version for that alone would help Linux developers, too, because of WINE. I just see these people battling with git and this is a solution that will be completely useless to them. Maybe next time.

                                          1. 3

                                            I suspect that most Windows-using developers don’t use Git and that most Git users actually use either MacOS or Linux.

                                            1. 2

                                              Maybe, I couldn’t find any data now, but even if, then it’s gradually changing in favor of git, as people are leaving CVS, Subversion and such. And the ratio of Windows to $anything_else developers is huge. I know several places where they use git on Windows.

                                            2. 2

                                              Software isn’t required to target the majority.

                                              1. 2

                                                Yeah, I didn’t respond to that particular item, but going off that logic, virtually all Linux GUI software wouldn’t “be of any use to most developers.”

                                              2. 1

                                                Web and mobile developers are irrelevant here,

                                                I genuinely don’t get what you mean. Are you under the misapprehension that they don’t use Git, or that we don’t have mobile and web developers on lobste.rs?

                                                1. 1

                                                  I see it as an expression of bias and nothing more, i.e. why mention them at all?

                                                  Though let’s not continue in this thread, it’s unproductive and began as a sigh.

                                            3. 3

                                              I do wonder if someone has useful stats on what kinds of systems programmers use… Like, if npm, cargo, rubygems, pip, etc. would keep track of what platforms people are on when they install packages (although the numbers would probably be a bit skewed, since a decent chunk on package installations happen on server systems on which no development is being done).

                                              It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a good amount of people on macOS, simply because there are quite a number of amazing macOS-only developer-centric apps. I mean, do you think Kapeli would sell as many Dash licenses if there was hardly any developers out there using the platform? At least me, Dash has almost revolutionised my workflow.

                                              1. 3

                                                Brew collected some usage stats, but used Google analytics, creating a giant shitstorm of outrage.

                                              1. 3

                                                I’ve managed to do this, making me feel rather productive:

                                                • a simple daemon that resets prio, ioprio and oom_score_adj for all new processes by name according to its configuration; I haven’t even tried yet whether it achieves anything, though
                                                • a tool that automatically reruns applications e.g. when they get recompiled
                                                • prepared an article about the desktop-tools package in which these tools are contained
                                                • done some work on an article that discusses TUI creation for *nix terminals and discovered a few things in the process; this article is going to take a lot of time to finish, though, it seems
                                                1. 1

                                                  That daemon is something that needed to be written. Thank you for that.

                                                1. 3

                                                  Quick, somebody write an article on how sed is better than grep!

                                                  1. 2

                                                    GNU sed is very, very slow in comparison to Perl. Several orders of magnitude.

                                                    1. 8

                                                      Quick, somebody write an article on how Perl is better than grep!

                                                      1. 2

                                                        I finally decided to replace all my use of sed with perl -pe last week. I’m intimately familiar with perl regex syntax, but find posix-style regexes to be mostly confusing and ugly.

                                                        1. 3

                                                          posix-style regexes

                                                          Which ones, BREs or EREs? BREs are confusing, horrible, ugly and lack all kinds of useful features and ideally would never have made it into POSIX. EREs are much nicer (though still vastly less feature filled than PCREs).

                                                          sed sucks, long live sed -r.

                                                    1. 13

                                                      For grep -v there’s a much easier way to invert than the suggested

                                                      awk '/something/ {next} 1'
                                                      

                                                      You can also use

                                                      awk '!/something/'
                                                      

                                                      Am I wrong because that’s not in posix or something?

                                                      1. 2

                                                        $0 !~ /something/ is also shorter and very valid. But yours should be fine by POSIX, too:

                                                        When an ERE token appears as an expression in any context other than as the right-hand of the ‘˜’ or “!˜” operator or as one of the built-in function arguments described below, the value of the resulting expression shall be the equivalent of: $0 ˜ /ere/

                                                        Going by that, !/ere/ is !($0 ~ /ere/) as expected.

                                                      1. 12

                                                        awk uses modern (read “Perl”) regular expressions, by default – like grep -E

                                                        Wrong. POSIX extended regexes aren’t PCRE.

                                                        1. 3

                                                          Although GNU grep does have -P too, for perl compatible regex. Doesn’t help awk though.

                                                        1. 7

                                                          Mostly continuing work on my MPD client and shell directory navigator. Today I’ve fixed Slack a bit more in my IRC client since seeing :slightly_smiling_face: all over was pretty annoying.

                                                          As for plans… the navigator needs more work to be actually useful, and then I want to create a system daemon to renice/reionice and oom_score_adj X11, i3wm and compton to a lower priority as soon as it sees them, in hope that I get a tiny bit more responsive system when everything goes to shit. I’d also like to reverse engineer w3mimgdisplay if there’s any time left and potentially reuse the concept in the navigator as well.

                                                          1. [Comment removed by author]

                                                            1. 5

                                                              When I toyed with alternate layouts, Colemak was my favorite. Keeping ZXCVB intact is essential for undo/cut/copy/paste/bold shortcuts.

                                                              1. 5

                                                                Ya I’ve been on Colemak for about two years now (I think?) and I’ve liked it so far. I don’t think I type faster, necessarily, but I do think I can type for longer without strain. Plus, it comes with most modern Linux distributions (including Arch Linux).

                                                                1. 3

                                                                  It’s also installed almost everywhere by default. In X.org, I’ve even got Czech and Polish AltGr variants of it.

                                                                  Swap Ctrl with Caps Lock and you’ve got a pretty comfy layout.

                                                                  1. 6

                                                                    This is my setup; dvorak, with swapped ctrl and caps lock (plus swapped alt and super - I almost never use alt, yet it takes up the prime real estate right next to space).

                                                                    In conjunction with using ctrl+c instead of esc to enter normal mode in vim, I’m a pretty happy camper.

                                                                1. 5

                                                                  Taught my Brainfuck compiler to generate a linkable object file, and a libc-dependent object file, meaning I mainly had to implement relocations. I’ve learnt a few things.

                                                                  Currently I’m trying to make some progress on my MPD client and I think I’m going to follow that by extending my shell directory navigator prototype into a real thing and learning to use it, so that I stop repeating pwd/ls/cd all the time, which is incredibly silly, while Midnight Commander is rather cumbersome. Thinking about making it extendable with git status and what not and how to achieve it.

                                                                  1. 10

                                                                    https://p.janouch.name/a/42f0f61e.png https://p.janouch.name/a/fd19af12.jpg

                                                                    I don’t really know what to show. Mostly utilitarian. I’d like a good screen but that’s ~$1200 and LCDs suck.

                                                                    1. 2

                                                                      I’ve written a “directory navigator” prototype, trying out a simpler event model for once and proving that it can work the way I want it to, and now I’m trying to prototype a W95-esque GUI system on top of HTML canvas and ES6, rediscovering Win32 and GTK+ in the process. I really hope I can get it done soon, despite being a slow programmer. I’m so excited by the idea.

                                                                      1. 1

                                                                        That’s really cool! I also find myself using asciinema to showcase (or just show) people terminals quickly.

                                                                      1. 4

                                                                        Working on a PDF parser in Lua which is a misguided plugin for my highlighting hex viewer, and making some progress with my MPD client so that I can finally uninstall Sonata/ario for good.