Threads for speps

  1. 21

    Please don’t bring this toxicity over to lobste.rs. Let it live and die on the orange site.

    1. 19

      I’ve had a few interesting discussions about our tribal and memetic expectations as exemplified by this repository. Sometimes, when somebody does something unbearably cringy in the name of what they think is supremely excellent taste, it is an opportunity to delve deeper into their implicit beliefs.

      Nowhere in this repository is it ever imagined that C is not an appropriate language for today’s coders. Rather, the machismo which is required to write fresh C code against an ever-steeper gradient of better toolchains for higher-level languages is also the same machismo which is stoked by the underlying family of memes used to theme and decorate the repository.

      Sometimes a project’s only purpose is to serve as a warning to others. Even in those moments, let us learn something from the precise nature of the warning.

      1. 22

        Can you define what you mean by ‘toxicity’? I don’t see anything ‘toxic’ in this repository.

        1. 5

          I don’t like the way its naming and meming relies on using virgin man vs not as a shorthand for bad vs not, however ironically.

          It’s a cool trick. Why couple it with a bad meme?

          1. 19

            The meme is incredibly funny, that’s why.

        2. 21

          Toxicity? Orange site? I didn’t get any of that.

          I could agree that the theming is a little overboard, not because of bad taste, but because it detracts from the technical side, as speps said.

          Code needs to market itself, and it seems “skullchap” had some fun in that department.

          1. 11

            It seems interesting from a technical perspective but I agree on the bad taste aspect, it detracts from the technical side.

            1. 8

              I think we need a new flag, because this isn’t really spam or off-topic: I suggest “bad taste” ;)

              1. 27

                The best way to deal with content that’s on-topic but otherwise not very valuable is simply to ignore it.

                A comment, btw, counts as an upvote, at least as far as visibility on the front page is concerned.

                1. 16

                  Or maybe some more tags. “based” and “redpilled” come to mind :-D

                  Alright, I’ll see myself out.

                  1. 5

                    Agreed. I marked it off-topic. Whatever your taste or politics, this repository was built simply “for the lulz”. It’s not tech, it’s a social experiment with code.

                    While there are many social topics in the tech world, that’s generally not what lobste.rs is good for.

                    1. 53

                      It’s tech, you and others just seem to be distressed by the cultural shibboleths it touches.

                      We have articles here that are dripping with furry stuff that are routinely defended from fursecution…a mainstream meme plus cool hack isn’t outside our Overton window for me.

                      1. 10

                        Labeling something “toxic” with the intent of banning it is as much of a cultural shibboleth as any of the memes in the article.

                        1. 4

                          The furry stuff is a positive expression of someone’s own personal identity, while the chad/virgin meme is a ridiculous objectification of others for being ingroup/outgroup. Do you see a difference?

                          1. 4

                            Yeah, what’s up with all the furry stuff?

                          2. 13

                            this repository was built simply “for the lulz”. It’s not tech,

                            It’s not? I’m confused. I haven’t tried compiling it, but there’s a C file in there with a bunch of complex-looking code in it. Does that count as tech?

                            I don’t know if anyone would use this library for reals (I sure hope not), but the same goes for stuff like Brainfuck or (IMHO) a 6502 assembler. There’s a lot of stuff posted here that is, at some level, done for teh lulz.

                            1. 8

                              this repository was built simply “for the lulz”. It’s not tech, it’s a social experiment with code.

                              A lot of software is written “just because” or “for the lulz”. A lot of good software is even written for this express purpose— Linux started out as a hobby project, no?

                              I also don’t see what makes this a social experiment. What’s the experiment? The readme being silly? Is that an experiment?

                              1. 4

                                Linus Torvalds biography is called “Just for fun”, because that is why he wrote Linux. That is how older people say “for the lulz”. Is Linux now also off-topic?

                                There is some actual C macro (ab-)use in there, that is interesting to look at. It is def. tech.

                                Why are you so triggered by this stupid meme?

                            2. 6

                              The shitposting C chad versus the virgin crustacean.

                            1. 17

                              Just the name made me smile, not sure if intentional :)

                              Arse: Irish, British, Australian, South African and regional Canadian English for the buttocks (“ass” in American English) [0]

                              [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arse

                              1. 1

                                I don’t have a favorite language/framework/library for this kind of project. It’s more about how easy it’ll be to host it somewhere that won’t cost me anything or very little. In this case, it seems like it won’t be a massive amount of visitors (older video game) and a database could be anything but let’s say SQLite. With these requirements, if you go with Go, you still need to find somewhere to run your binary. With Python, you’ll find some cheap hosting like OVH, same with PHP. Always keep it as simple as possible to get your base project working and then improve on it once you’ve learned more. You could even use glitch.com and use a file based DB.

                                1. 1

                                  For a simpler entry point into multiplayer browser games, I would recommend Glitch and Colyseus.

                                  1. 18

                                    Our sysadmin @alynpost is resigning as moderator and sysadmin to focus on other projects. Prgmr will no longer be donating hosting. For security’s sake, I’ve reset all tokens and you’ll have to log in again - sorry for the hassle.

                                    Is there any risk that Lobste.rs could go offline in the future due to running costs?

                                    1. 38

                                      No. The new hosting bill is $75/month, which I don’t mind at all.

                                      1. 14

                                        Isn’t that very overpriced? 40€/month at hetzner gets you a dedicated machine with a Ryzen 5 3600, 64GB of RAM and 512GB of SSD on RAID1 (no affiliation or anything, it’s just the provider I know).

                                        1. 8

                                          Hetzner also just uses electricity from sustainable sources, while with digital ocean it depends on the location

                                          1. 3

                                            Hetzner is the goat! I use them for my VPS and it’s the best deal I’ve seen yet for cloud services. The fact that they’re environmentally friendly as well makes it that much better!

                                          2. 5

                                            Does Hetzner have managed MySQL? Seems like it’s a big hassle removed there.

                                            1. 6

                                              You can rent a managed server with Hetzner and they have a panel to install and mange MySQL on it, but I don’t think it’s comparable to DigitalOcean’s managed offerings.

                                              1. 1

                                                Would be really interesting to hear what they’re doing with “managed”. Because based on the prices I’d say prgrmr.com is also not cheap compared to the hardware you get.

                                          3. 5

                                            Does hosting lobster requires lots of CPU or RAM?

                                            1. 4

                                              It’s Rails. So both :)

                                              1. -1

                                                #rust

                                            2. 5

                                              Would you consider accepting donations for hosting?

                                              1. 35

                                                I appreciate the offers but prefer not to, no. Still looking for someone to print-on-demand stickers, though.

                                                1. 12

                                                  I’ll buy $75 worth of stickers every month to show my appreciation.

                                                  1. 6

                                                    Minor dissenting opinion:

                                                    I support a lot of people on Patreon and expect nothing in return. Chipping in $5/month to Lobste.rs because I like the community and the stuff that gets shared here isn’t a tall order, and won’t come with any entitlement. (A lot of the people I support are artists and content creators that are usually in high demand from the rest of the community.)

                                                    I can’t speak for the rest of the community, but I don’t think I’m particularly saintly in this regard. :P

                                                    If the expenses grow, please don’t rule this option out entirely.

                                                    1. 3

                                                      It seems to me that the expectation comes from the design of sites which ask for monthly donations. Thinking out loud here, but a donations system which really was just a donations system, something more similar to ko-fi and didn’t have names attached, might help highlight the fact that by donating one is helping out rather than a new account tier?

                                                      I personally also donate on Patreon and expect nothing.

                                                    2. 4

                                                      Thank you! That is a great attitude.

                                                      I have one concern though. What happens when lobste.rs keeps growing and the bill increases? What is your maximum you would spend on the site? Wouldn‘t it be better to care about that rather earlier than later?

                                                      1. 22

                                                        By design, Lobsters grows pretty slowly. I’m thinking of design decisions like invites vs open signups, and a narrow focus rather than a subreddit for everything. Growth is not a goal like it would be in a startup, and I’d pause invites if we saw some kind of huge spike.

                                                        Right off we should have plenty of spare capacity. I aimed to overprovision this new server and we’ll see if I eyeballed that correctly as we reach peak traffic during the US work week. If the hosting bill goes to about 10x current I’ll start reconsidering donations. But that may never happen! Hosting costs slowly decline as power gets cheaper, data centers get built, and fiber gets laid. Lobsters is cheap to run because it’s a CRUD SQL app pushing around text a few kilobytes at a time and our size increases slowly. I hope not to jinx it, but it seems likely that our hosting bill is flat or declines over the next decade.

                                                      2. 2

                                                        Not print-on-demand afaik, but Sticker Mule has been great to work with in the past for me.

                                                        1. 1

                                                          Redbubble do print on demand for stickers, iirc.

                                                          1. 1

                                                            I’m definitely in the market for some stickers if you find a service or have any left over from the first batch!

                                                    1. 3

                                                      It would be cool if the “delete this” part explained it. I try to avoid cargo-culting.

                                                      1. 3

                                                        It’s not cargo-culting, it’s just telling you to delete the content that’s already there because it assumes you don’t want the original content.

                                                        Although I really don’t see the point of the website, just have a local file with your own version of that or a snippet in your favorite editor and that’s it. I thought there was some trickery with curl being detected server side to serve a page without the content but no…

                                                        1. 2

                                                          … /s?

                                                          1. 2

                                                            No, I mean have it explain the rationale behind the specific meta tags, etc.

                                                        1. 4

                                                          Posting it here as well in a comment on the article but I recently found this: https://github.com/Viladoman/StructLayout

                                                          1. 1

                                                            What’s the point of Netlify when GitHub Pages works for static content? Just curious, I have a normal .md files setup with Actions and it works wonders. I like the idea of using issues, I just don’t get the Netlify part.

                                                            One thing that caught me when using a custom domain on GitHub Pages is that Hugo needs to deploy a CNAME file that contains the domain name along with the rest of the content. Otherwise, it works.

                                                            1. 1

                                                              You’re totally right, and I did use Github Pages for many years. I mainly switched to Netlify for the pull request previews, and to try some of their other cool features like form handling.

                                                              1. 1

                                                                Fair enough :) Thanks for the info, I use them as well for a different website.

                                                            1. 4

                                                              Available on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/microsoftencartapremiumedition2009

                                                              Works fine on Windows 10.

                                                              1. 5

                                                                Tried a couple online things to make small amounts of money but they all fell through.

                                                                1. 3

                                                                  Interested to know what and why now :)

                                                                  1. 2

                                                                    tried bug bounty and found nothing, tried to tutor a student but they flaked

                                                                1. 2

                                                                  Looks like a great idea but the examples aren’t commented much and when they are it’s in German.

                                                                  1. 1

                                                                    You might like the snake game example video that was mentioned in the reddit thread

                                                                  1. 2

                                                                    Its a very interesting idea! Is there a way to stop the user from zooming in more closely? On the demo website the tiles just disappear, if you zoom in too close.

                                                                    1. 1

                                                                      hey! yes, it will depend on the client library you use, but almost all of them have a config for that. I will fix the demo, thank you!

                                                                      1. 3

                                                                        With the new zoom limit, some collapsed locations can’t expand anymore.

                                                                    1. 1

                                                                      Very nice! I’m in the process of trying to target WebAssembly in D myself. There are a few efforts from veteran members of the community[1][2] and it’s been interesting so far.

                                                                      [1] https://forum.dlang.org/post/lgeieufqwejutjybunpk@forum.dlang.org [2] http://dpldocs.info/this-week-in-d/Blog.Posted_2020_08_10.html

                                                                      1. 1

                                                                        Very interesting, thanks a lot for writing this article! However, I was expecting a bit more details on how Z3 helped here, I’ve only read a few articles about Z3 before so I was interested in a new use case but I didn’t realize until the end where the Z3 bits were :)

                                                                        EDIT: just another thing, your gist is commented in French, not a problem for me, but it might easier for other people to have comments in English given that the article is in English ;)

                                                                        1. 1

                                                                          Yep, you’re right, the article was a bit messy. I originally started writing it months ago, and forgot most of the details since then. The trick is to use Z3’s BitVecs, since we’re not working with numbers but with bits. At line 137 I’m converting the ints into doubles, into bits. There probably is a way to speed up the solving with node.js v10 but I didn’t find any working Z3 method for it.

                                                                          I also updated the gist so the comments are now in english, thanks for noticing.

                                                                        1. 1

                                                                          Slightly more information there: https://nadim.computer/

                                                                          Piccolo is an AI that plays the Japanese Othello strategy game at a strong and competitive level. Piccolo uses Negamax Depth-First-Search with Alpha-Beta pruning combined with heuristics to evaluate position strength, and features an elegant user interface. It is written in Go and compiled into WebAssembly.

                                                                          1. 6

                                                                            Another great C compiler with a single author - https://github.com/michaelforney/cproc

                                                                            1. 3

                                                                              The one you link uses QBE as a backend whereas lacc has its own backend, a significant part of writing a compiler.

                                                                              1. 3

                                                                                qbe is also from a single author, I suppose you could say cproc has 2 authors then.

                                                                                1. 3

                                                                                  FWIW QBE is also written by a single author. Both are great projects :)

                                                                              1. -2

                                                                                Very excited to see yet another I/O framework for Rust. Nothing makes me think a language is a good choice to use when I see a fragmented community using thousands of different crates that all provide the same features that some other languages just put in their standard library.

                                                                                1. 4

                                                                                  Not sure if you’re attempting humour here, you could have had a good point by not trying to be so sarcastic about it.

                                                                                  I agree though, same happens with D. I was trying to find how to read xml, great there is std.xml! Oh it’s been deprecated because it’s not up to the standards of the standard library, and none of the existing packages seem very mature…

                                                                                1. 4

                                                                                  Off-topic, but translated in french, the name and the description are funny; and yes I admit I’m a kid :’)

                                                                                  Ps: popol is a slang word for dick.

                                                                                  1. 4

                                                                                    It’s like when English speakers work with the Coq theorem prover…

                                                                                    (Les mots françaises sont tres belle, même les cochons…)

                                                                                    1. 3

                                                                                      Good one too :D !

                                                                                      I am not trying to be rude, but just for you to know in order to further improve your good french:

                                                                                      French words have a gender, either male or female, and the word “mot”, which means “word”, is male.

                                                                                      As “mot” is male, you must use the male form of the adjective “français” (french) and not the plural female form “françaises”.

                                                                                      Also, we use the adjective “bel”, which means “beautiful”, only before singular male words that start with a vowel or a muted consonant : like “un bel ouvrage” (a fine work) or “un bel homme” (a beautiful man). It’s plural form is “bels”.

                                                                                      For male words that start with an audible consonant, you would use the word “beau”: “un beau cadeau” (a wonderful gift). Its plural form is “beaux”.

                                                                                      For female “belle”, or its plural form “belles” works for every female words.

                                                                                      So, with these two patches, you would say

                                                                                      Les mots français sont très beaux, mêmes les cochons…

                                                                                      Have a nice evening ! :)

                                                                                      1. 2

                                                                                        même

                                                                                        Not trying to be rude either, when used as a indefinite pronoun it doesn’t have a plural :)

                                                                                        1. 1

                                                                                          Damn… Thanks, today I learned !

                                                                                        2. 2

                                                                                          I am not trying to be rude, but just for you to know in order to further improve your good french:

                                                                                          Thank you. 20 years ago I was fluent enough to do daily life and work in French (I lived in Luxembourg for a year or so) but I haven’t spoken it at all since then. I can still understand it well enough to listen to music and watch some TV, but it’s getting harder and harder.

                                                                                          (I helped some French tourists in Las Vegas 7-8 years ago. That was the last time I spoke French with a native speaker…and I gave them wrong directions. Not because I messed up the French but because I was wrong about how to get where they were going.)

                                                                                    1. 2

                                                                                      I thought everyone had switched to mutt years ago…

                                                                                      1. 3

                                                                                        Nobody I know switched straight from elm to mutt. Most went to pine first.

                                                                                        1. 2

                                                                                          Same here, Pine Is Not Elm was the mail reader of choice for my peers. I believe the client I used was mh, but it’s been a looooong time.

                                                                                          1. 2

                                                                                            Ahh I switched from pine to elm and then mutt.

                                                                                          2. 1

                                                                                            Any link to that? Couldn’t find anything but the email client…

                                                                                            1. 5
                                                                                              1. 2

                                                                                                That’s the (terrible) joke.

                                                                                            1. 4

                                                                                              Ditto is a well known clipboard manager that’s existed since at least 2004[1]. If the author reads this you might want to consider changing the name.

                                                                                              [1] https://ditto-cp.sourceforge.io

                                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                                I don’t use GitLab myself but if you do, please open an issue.