1. 8

    Ignoring the dialog on privacy or surveillance capitalism:

    I’m selfishly happy. The best application experiences are native and this forces more shops to make native applications.

    Now, if we could just kill electron…

    1. 3

      Then most of apps will be Windows-only.

      1. 0

        You’re wrong. The best application experience is with apps coded in <something> for <something>. Everyone knows that and no matter how good any other app appears to be, it isn’t.

        I mean, anything that isn’t coded in Rust, compiled for a 64 bit ARM core, utilizing an embedded MongoDB and has been strictly linted will ever have any good graphical design or UX. Just plain logical.

        1. 3

          Nice straw man.

          1. 0

            I was with you until the sarcasm. I don’t see why we should mock and caricature others’ preferences: we’re all here because we have weird & specific preferences ;)

        1. 5

          The intent here is to drive Chrome experiments, not to track users?

          It can be abused as something else, we don’t know if that abuse is happening, only thing we know is the intent and that’s not to track individual users but to track browser experiments?

          1. 7

            It doesn’t help that Google has just one privacy policy for all its products, which is so vague and full of phrases like “we may [..]” that no one can discern what exactly Google collects and what exactly it’s used for.

            For example:

            When you’re not signed in to a Google Account, we store the information we collect with unique identifiers tied to the browser, application, or device you’re using. This helps us do things like maintain your language preferences across browsing sessions.

            Note that it says “thing like [..]”, not “maintain your preferences”. What else doe it do exactly then? Very vague. Later on it goes to say that:

            We collect information about your activity in our services, which we use to do things like recommend a YouTube video you might like. The activity information we collect may include:

            [..]

            • Activity on third-party sites and apps that use our services

            So now we’ve gone from “maintain language preferences” to “activity on third-party sites” (note it’s not clear what “activity” exactly). Much further down it goes on to say that “We may combine the information we collect among our services and across your devices” (no mention of Google account).

            If Chrome had a clear privacy policy stating “this is exactly the information we collect, and this is exactly what we use it for” then okay, fair enough. But it doesn’t: it just has this very broad Google policy which basically says “we can do whatever we want with your data” (there are a few restrictions like sharing with 3rd parties, but not many).

            Is this data used for that? Probably not. But Google’s refusal to give hard promises on this isn’t exactly inspiring a lot of trust.

            1. 3

              This is more-or-less exactly the behavior that lead to the GDPR being enacted.

          1. 1

            This would/could be a great way to distribute internal tools to all different platforms in use – just have a privat tap and it should work, no?

            1. 2

              Simplicity of hosting your own tap is definitely a good advantage. The fact that brew will use local git directly is nice. It makes it easy to consume private repos and leaves the authentication to the right tool instead of using an opinonated new authentication way of consuming private taps

            1. 2

              Love static sites with Webmentions 👍

              I’m running an alternative to webmention.io if someone is interested: https://webmention.herokuapp.com/

              It has no dependency on any external JS-library, only has its own small cacheable one that progressively enhances links to mention lists, so works without JS as well, the comments just won’t get in Inked but linked to and they of course won’t be real time updated without the JS either.

              1. 5

                Merry Christmas everyone! 🎄

                1. 10

                  So it was true – Edge will move to Chromium and the web will have yet another major browsers that have WebKit origins – a sad day for the web.

                  Now only Gecko/Servo remains as alternatives of other origins.

                  Things I haven’t yet understood:

                  Will Microsoft also use V8 rather than Chakra? And if so, will they as a consequence also drop official development on Chakra and on the Chakra-based Node.js?

                  1. 5

                    There’s now one less closed source browser, I’m not sure how that’s a sad day for the web? If anything the web is more open since all major browser engines (Blink, WebKit, and Gecko) are open source projects and take outside contributions.

                    1. 12

                      Plurality is losing, open implementations are gaining. The open web standards are hurt by a lack of plurality, so even if it’s a win from an implementation perspective, it’s a loss from a standards perspective - and I would say that the loss in the standards perspective outweigh the win of the implementation perspective in this case, in an open web regard.

                      1. 5

                        If you wanted to write your own browser, you might try implementing various standards. However, your success depends on whether other people follow those standards as well. If there are many implementations, even proprietary, then people will make web pages that aim towards the center. If there is only one, then standards won’t matter.

                        1. 1

                          To be fair though, the amount of effort required to write a useful browser from scratch in 2018 is so insanely high than even a corporate behemoth like Microsoft with $$$ oozing out of its ears can’t stomach it. Is that really a use-case worth addressing? Would we really be worse off if there was just a single open source engine that everybody used? Kinda like Linux has become the universal kernel for running native binaries in the cloud…

                          1. 4

                            This problem only worsens when the corporate behemoths consolidate. What are the chances that MS pushes back on a new feature that’s too complex now that they don’t have to implement either?

                            1. 1

                              Complex for browser developers or web developers?

                          2. 1

                            The new “living standards” make this much, much harder. It is like building on quicksand: you can’t target a stable version of these standards. There’s also no sane changelog to speak of, as far as I know. The RFC standards we used to have were quite sane, but all formalisms are slowly being removed, which makes interoperability unnecessarily hard.

                        2. 2

                          I feel like the Node.js on ChakraCore effort was dead-on-arrival. The Node.js/JavaScript ecosystem already has a hard enough time with native interop that trying to abstract it away was premature. It’s still possible that the ABI Stable Node API work takes off but, sitting here speculating, it doesn’t seem to have enough of a benefit to developers to warrant packages switching.

                        1. 4

                          I would be less sad if Microsoft had chosen Gecko/Servo here but I’m not too sad all the same. I don’t (yet) understand what rendering engine/JavaScript VM diversity really gave web developers. I can get behind browser diversity but it seems like what’s beneath the surface doesn’t matter anymore. I’d point to iOS as an example of this—Safari vs. Chrome is a worthwhile debate but it’s all WKWebView under the hood, and because of that iOS users can all benefit from the performance/battery life and site compatibility.

                          1. 4

                            What plurality amongst engines gives is an insurance that the web will be developed against actual standardized behavior rather than just the implemented version of the majority engine.

                            There are lots of examples of eg. optimizations that assume that all browsers work like browsers with a WebKit origin does, but such optimization may not at all help in eg. Gecko or even make it worse there.

                            1. 2

                              There are 2 ways to address this: having even more browsers with substantial marketshare or having just one open source rendering engine that is used by all.

                            2. 2

                              And all sites running anywhere on iOS as a consequence suffer from WebKit’s poor and generally laggard support for newer standards.

                            1. 1

                              We’re back to the state of affairs before the Apple / Google collaboration on WebKit fell apart. Same number of web engines under development.

                              1. 6

                                No, it’s less, right? I count WebKit (Apple/Google), Gecko (Mozilla), EdgeHTML (Microsoft) and Presto (Opera). Presto was technically switched out for WebKit before the Blink fork but really they happened at the same time - within a month or two IIRC. Close enough that Opera announced they would switch to Blink instead before almost any sort of work had been done on the switch.

                                Now all we’ve got is Gecko, WebKit and Blink. And it’s worse than just those numbers would imply because market share these days is more inbalanced in favor of a Blink monopoly ([citation needed]).

                                1. 5

                                  Same number of engines but with fewer origins - all except Gecko now share the WebKit origin and has the basis of the architecture choices made in that

                                1. 3

                                  This will make it incompatible with GPL:ed projects – right? As GPL does not allow any additional limitations?

                                  Reminds me of the classic JSLint license: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSLint

                                  That license had “The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.” in it – which caused quite a few problems.

                                  1. 6

                                    Not just GPL; it violates the FSF’s definition of Free Software:

                                    The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).

                                    It violates the Open Source Initiative’s definition of open source:

                                    1. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups

                                    The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.

                                    1. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

                                    The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.

                                    It violates the Debian Free Software Guidelines:

                                    1. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups

                                    The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.

                                    1. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

                                    The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.)

                                    In other words, it’s proprietary software (with source available)

                                    1. 1

                                      Reminds me of the need for features like what I proposed in this RFC to Yarn: https://github.com/yarnpkg/rfcs/pull/76 Will try to find time soon to take up work on that one again.

                                      Also: Here is the thread from the previous time this happened: https://lobste.rs/s/eyyiav/npm_package_is_stealing_env_variables_on

                                      1. 4

                                        Many of the features they claim that IRC doesn’t support it does in fact support nowadays as IRCCloud and others are cooperating on creating modern IRC specifications that make IRC more on par with the Slack experience than classic IRC is. Link: https://ircv3.net/

                                        1. 2

                                          Unfortunately, I don’t have much faith with IRCv3 - it’s barely been implemented, and one of the IRCv3 people I talked to left and gave up on it - he’s now supporting Matrix, due to it basically being an independent JSON reimplementation of a proposed binary replacement idea for IRCv3 that resolved much of its fundamental problems, and free of IRC “culture.”

                                          1. 1

                                            A pity if so :/ Progressively enhancing IRC was a way that I found promising

                                        1. 26

                                          Wow. Just wow. Selected citations from comments:

                                          This destroyed 3 production server after a single deploy!

                                          Make a pull request and help out!

                                          Not a single pull request was merged in the last 2 months that came from an outside contributor. There are currently over 70 PRs open and none of them have any activity from the npm team.

                                          How about we give the two person team more than 24 hours to run npm unpublish npm@5.7.0?

                                          I’m not sure if you’re joking, but that command only allows unpublishing versions published within 24 hours, and not older.

                                          1. 5

                                            They were not kidding about these PRs and no activity from the npm team.

                                            If you look at the last 2 years commit chart, It really shows a huge disparity.

                                            How long can a project like this go without accepting or even commenting on others attempt of contributing to their software?

                                            1. 2

                                              They’re not a lot better about issues either. I submitted an issue about NPM 5 breaking stuff 8 months ago. Nobody ever responded, and the problem persists.

                                              (In case anyone from NPM is listening: https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/17391)

                                              1. 3

                                                My experience is that yarn is very good at responding to issues and in accepting PR:s – so probably better to go there if one wants to fix or improve some aspects of an npm cli client

                                                1. 0

                                                  I’m sure Yarn is a lot better on a technical level… but I’m really not comfortable using a Facebook product.

                                                  1. 3

                                                    Introducing Yarn: a new package manager for JavaScript from @fbOpenSource, @tildeio, @googledevs & @exponentjs.

                                                    https://twitter.com/yarnpkg/status/785857780838232064

                                                    So much more of a community project than say eg. React

                                          1. 32

                                            In the Hacker News thread about the new Go package manager people were angry about go, since the npm package manager was obviously superior. I can see the quality of that now.

                                            There’s another Lobster thread right now about how distributions like Debian are obsolete. The idea being that people use stuff like npm now, instead of apt, because apt can’t keep up with modern software development.

                                            Kubernetes official installer is some curl | sudo bash thing instead of providing any kind of package.

                                            In the meantime I will keep using only FreeBSD/OpenBSD/RHEL packages and avoid all these nightmares. Sometimes the old ways are the right ways.

                                            1. 7

                                              “In the Hacker News thread about the new Go package manager people were angry about go, since the npm package manager was obviously superior. I can see the quality of that now.”

                                              I think this misses the point. The relevant claim was that npm has a good general approach to packaging, not that npm is perfectly written. You can be solving the right problem, but writing terribly buggy code, and you can write bulletproof code that solves the wrong problem.

                                              1. 5

                                                npm has a good general approach to packaging

                                                The thing is, their general approach isn’t good.

                                                They only relatively recently decided locking down versions is the Correct Thing to Do. They then screwed this up more than once.

                                                They only relatively recently decided that having a flattened module structure was a good idea (because presumably they never tested in production settings on Windows!).

                                                They decided that letting people do weird things with their package registry is the Correct Thing to Do.

                                                They took on VC funding without actually having a clear business plan (which is probably going to end in tears later, for the whole node community).

                                                On and on and on…

                                                1. 2

                                                  Go and the soon-to-be-official dep dependency managment tool manages dependencies just fine.

                                                  The Go language has several compilers available. Traditional Linux distro packages together with gcc-go is also an acceptable solution.

                                                  1. 4

                                                    It seems the soon-to-be-official dep tool is going to be replaced by another approach (currently named vgo).

                                                  2. 1

                                                    I believe there’s a high correlation between the quality of the software and the quality of the solution. Others might disagree, but that’s been pretty accurate in my experience. I can’t say why, but I suspect it has to do with the same level of care put into both the implementation and in understanding the problem in the first place. I cannot prove any of this, this is just my heuristic.

                                                    1. 8

                                                      You’re not even responding to their argument.

                                                      1. 2

                                                        There’s npm registry/ecosystem and then there’s the npm cli tool. The npm registry/ecosystem can be used with other clients than the npm cli client and when discussing npm in general people usually refer to the ecosystem rather than the specific implementation of the npm cli client.

                                                        I think npm is good but I’m also skeptical about the npm cli tool. One doesn’t exclude the other. Good thing there’s yarn.

                                                        1. 1

                                                          I think you’re probably right that there is a correlation. But it would have to be an extremely strong correlation to justify what you’re saying.

                                                          In addition, NPM isn’t the only package manager built on similar principles. Cargo takes heavy inspiration from NPM, and I haven’t heard about it having a history of show-stopping bugs. Perhaps I’ve missed the news.

                                                      2. 8

                                                        The thing to keep in mind is that all of these were (hopefully) done with best intentions. Pretty much all of these had a specific use case… there’s outrage, sure… but they all seem to have a reason for their trade offs.

                                                        • People are angry about a proposed go package manager because it throws out a ton of the work that’s been done by the community over the past year… even though it’s fairly well thought out and aims to solve a lot of problems. It’s no secret that package management in go is lacking at best.
                                                        • Distributions like Debian are outdated, at least for software dev, but their advantage is that they generally provide a rock solid base to build off of. I don’t want to have to use a version of a python library from years ago because it’s the only version provided by the operating system.
                                                        • While I don’t trust curl | sh it is convenient… and it’s hard to argue that point. Providing packages should be better, but then you have to deal with bug reports where people didn’t install the package repositories correctly… and differences in builds between distros… and… and…

                                                        It’s easy to look at the entire ecosystem and say “everything is terrible” but when you sit back, we’re still at a pretty good place… there are plenty of good, solid options for development and we’re moving (however slowly) towards safer, more efficient build/dev environments.

                                                        But maybe I’m just telling myself all this so I don’t go crazy… jury’s still out on that.

                                                        1. 4

                                                          Distributions like Debian are outdated, at least for software dev,

                                                          That is the sentiment that seems to drive the programming language specific package managers. I think what is driving this is that software often has way too many unnecessary dependencies causing setup of the environment to build the software being hard or taking lots of time.

                                                          I don’t want to have to use a version of a python library from years ago because it’s the only version provided by the operating system.

                                                          Often it is possible to install libraries at another location and redirect your software to use that though.

                                                          It’s easy to look at the entire ecosystem and say “everything is terrible” but when you sit back, we’re still at a pretty good place…

                                                          I’m not so sure. I forsee an environment where actually building software is a lost art. Where people directly edit interpreted files in place inside a virtual machine image/flatpak/whatever because they no longer know how to build the software and setup the environment it needs. And then some language specific package manager for distributing these images.

                                                          I’m growing more disillusioned the more I read Hacker News and lobste.rs… Help me be happy. :)

                                                          1. 1

                                                            So like squeak/smalltalk images then? Whats old is new again I suppose.

                                                            http://squeak.org

                                                            1. 1

                                                              I’m not so sure. I forsee an environment where actually building software is a lost art. Where people directly edit interpreted files in place inside a virtual machine image/flatpak/whatever because they no longer know how to build the software and setup the environment it needs. And then some language specific package manager for distributing these images.

                                                              You could say the same thing about Docker. I think package managers and tools like Docker are a net win for the community. They make it faster for experienced practitioners to setup environments and they make it easier for inexperienced ones as well. Sure, there is a lot you’ve gotta learn to use either responsibly. But I remember having to build redis every time I needed it because it wasn’t in ubuntu’s official package manager when I started using it. And while I certainly appreciate that experience, I love that I can just install it with apt now.

                                                            2. 2

                                                              I don’t want to have to use a version of a python library from years ago because it’s the only version provided by the operating system.

                                                              Speaking of Python specifically, it’s not a big problem there because everyone is expected to work within virtual environments and nobody runs pip install with sudo. And when libraries require building something binary, people do rely on system-provided stable toolchains (compilers and -dev packages for C libraries). And it all kinda works :-)

                                                              1. 4

                                                                I think virtual environments are a best practice that unfortunately isn’t followed everywhere. You definitely shoudn’t run pip install with sudo but I know of a number of companies where part of their deployment is to build a VM image and sudo pip install the dependencies. However it’s the same thing with npm. In theory you should just run as a normal user and have everything installed to node_modules but this clearly isn’t the case, as shown by this issue.

                                                                1. 5

                                                                  nobody runs pip install with sudo

                                                                  I’m pretty sure there are quite a few devs doing just that.

                                                                  1. 2

                                                                    Sure, I didn’t count :-) The important point is they have a viable option not to.

                                                                  2. 2

                                                                    npm works locally by default, without even doing anything to make a virtual environment. Bundler, Cargo, Stack etc. are similar.

                                                                    People just do sudo because Reasons™ :(

                                                                2. 4

                                                                  It’s worth noting that many of the “curl | bash” installers actually add a package repository and then install the software package. They contain some glue code like automatic OS/distribution detection.

                                                                  1. 2

                                                                    I’d never known true pain in software development until I tried to make my own .debs and .rpms. Consider that some of these newer packaging systems might have been built because Linux packaging is an ongoing tirefire.

                                                                    1. 3

                                                                      with fpm https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm it’s not that hard. But yes, using the Debian or Redhat blessed was to package stuff and getting them into the official repos is def. painful.

                                                                      1. 1

                                                                        I used the gradle plugins with success in the past, but yeah, writing spec files by hand is something else. I am surprised nobody has invented a more user friendly DSL for that yet.

                                                                        1. 1

                                                                          A lot of difficulties when doing Debian packages come from policy. For your own packages (not targeted to be uploaded in Debian), it’s far easier to build packages if you don’t follow the rules. I like to pretend this is as easy as with fpm, but you get some bonus from it (building in a clean chroot, automatic dependencies, service management like the other packages). I describe this in more details here: https://vincent.bernat.im/en/blog/2016-pragmatic-debian-packaging

                                                                        2. 2

                                                                          It sucks that you come away from this thinking that all of these alternatives don’t provide benefits.

                                                                          I know there’s a huge part of the community that just wants things to work. You don’t write npm for fun, you end up writing stuff like it because you can’t get current tools to work with your workflow.

                                                                          I totally agree that there’s a lot of messiness in this newer stuff that people in older structures handle well. So…. we can knowledge share and actually make tools on both ends of the spectrum better! Nothing about Kubernetes requires a curl’d installer, after all.

                                                                        1. 3

                                                                          I feel much more confident with https://yarnpkg.com/ – more confident with its code and more confident that its maintainers will listen to suggestions and PR:s.

                                                                          1. 4

                                                                            I’m probably way too optimistic but I see the natural outcome of this as open source hardware/software tractors :)

                                                                            1. 2

                                                                              Seems to exist some such initiatives: http://opensourceecology.org/

                                                                            1. 3

                                                                              So, please forgive my ignorance but reading all the negative responses here - isn’t the fact that we now have a protocol standard for distributed social media an all around good thing?

                                                                              1. 9

                                                                                The lack of standards has never been an issue – the lack of deployments, independent implementations, momentum and actual interoperability has always been an issue.

                                                                                I remember implementing OStatus back in 2012 or so at Flattr, only to find that no client actually implemented the spec well enough to be interoperable with us and that people rather than spending time on trying to fix that instead wanted to convert all standards from XML to JSON, where some like Pubsubhubbub/WebSub took longer to be convert than others, leaving the entire emergent ecosystem in limbo. And later ActivityStreams converted yet again, from JSON to JSON-LD, but then I had moved on to the IndieWeb.

                                                                                I find the IndieWeb:s approach to document patterns, find common solutions, standardize such common solutions as small focused, composable standards, and reusing existing web technology as far as possible much more appealing.

                                                                                One highlight with that is that one can compose such services in a way where ones main site is even a static site (mine is a Jekyll site for example) but still use interactive components like WebMentions and Micropub.

                                                                                Another highlight is that one as a developer can focus ones time on building a really good service for one of those standards and use the rest of them from the community. That way I have for example provided a hosted WebMention endpoint for users during the last 4 years without me having to keep updated with every other apec outside of that space, and the same I’m doing now with a Micropub endpoint.

                                                                                Composability and building on existing web technologies also somewhat motivates the entire “lets convert from XML to JSON” trend – HTML is HTML and will stay HTML, so we can focus on building stuff, gaining momentum and critical mass and not just convert our implementations from one standard to the next while fragmenting the entire ecosystem in the process. That also means that standards can evolve progressively and that one can approach decentralized social networks as being a layer that progressively enhances ones blog/personal site one service at a time. Maybe first WebMention receiving? Then sending? Then perhaps some Micropub, WebSub or some Microformats markup? Your choice, it all doesn’t have to happen in a day, it can happen over a year, and that’s just okay. Fits well into an open source scene that wants to promote plurality of participants as well as implementations while also wanting to promote a good work/life balance.

                                                                                1. 1

                                                                                  Unfortunately every time an ActivityPub thread makes it to a news aggregator like this, it always seems like there are some negative comments in the feed from some folks from the indieweb community. It kind of bums me out… part of the goal of the Social Working Group was to try to bridge the historical divide between linked data communities and the indieweb community. While I think we had some success at that within the Social Working Group, clearly divisions remain outside it. Bummer. :(

                                                                                  1. 1

                                                                                    Sorry for the negativity – it would help if posts like these presented the larger context so that people doesn’t interpret it as if “ActivityPub has won” which as you say isn’t at all the case, but which this thread here has shown that it can certainly be interpreted as and which the title of this submission also actually implies.

                                                                                    This gets even more important with the huge popularity of Mastodon as that’s a name many has heard and which they might think is the entirety of the work in that working group, which isn’t the case and is something that everyone has a responsibility in adequately portraying.

                                                                                    So sorry for the negativity, but it’s great that we both feel that it’s important to portray the entirety of the work of that group!

                                                                                1. 1

                                                                                  I’m kind of excited about payment request, would that integrate with e.g. Apple Pay? Reducing the overhead to paying sites is one of the things that I think could turn the web around. I have wished that e.g. Firefox would put a “$1” button on their toolbar, which would allow you to just give the site a dollar. Practical problems aside, could really improve the best parts of the web.

                                                                                  1. 1

                                                                                    PaymentRequest does support Apple Pay and is also supported by Google, Samsung and Microsoft at least - so building a PWA with in-app purchases is very much possible now

                                                                                    As a side note, I actually built such a browser button that you mention when I was at Flattr + investigated ways to identify the rightful owner of that page so that they could claim the promise of a donation. We never got it to fully work on all sites, but it worked for some of the larger silos, like Twitter and GitHub, and also worked for those who had added rel-payment links to Flattr, but we/I investigated having it crawl peoples as well public identity graphs to try and find a connection between the owner of a page (through eg rel-author link) and a verifiable identity – like their Twitter account or maybe some signed thing Keybase-style. That ended up with the creation of https://github.com/voxpelli/relspider but the crawler was never fully finished (eg. smart recrawling was never implemented) and never put into production. I still like the idea though.

                                                                                  1. 3

                                                                                    Ugh. ActivityPub makes me sad – we have so many good, deployed solutions to 80%+ of the social networking stuff, and ActivityPub just ignores all prior art (including prior art by its creators) and does everything from scratch.

                                                                                    1. 3

                                                                                      Why in your opinion did ActivityPub “make it” while others have failed?

                                                                                      Disclosure: I contributed to Rstat.us for a while.

                                                                                      1. 2

                                                                                        How do you mean “make it”? You mean mastodon? Because mastodon got popular before it had implemented any ActivityPub, so that’s unrelated :)

                                                                                        OStatus and IndieWeb tech are still the most widely-deployed non-mastodon (and are partially supported by mastodon as well)

                                                                                        1. 1

                                                                                          Bah, I apologize for not being clear. By “make it”, I mean, why has ActivityPub been promoted as a standard instead of OStatus or IndieWeb or another attempt at a protocol for the same space?

                                                                                          1. 3

                                                                                            OStatus mostly described a best practice for using other standards in a way that created a decentralized social network – so it never really needed standardization on its own. That + that the people behind it moved towards a next generation standards instead, eg. identi.ca moving to pump.io

                                                                                            IndieWeb though is getting standardized by the very same group as has published this recommendation and eg. WebMention and Micropub has been recommendations longer than this one even.

                                                                                            1. 3

                                                                                              Atom, PubSuHubBub (now WebSub), and Webmention are all standards with various bodies

                                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                                PubSuHubBub

                                                                                                Seeing some silly things they did with regard to best practices I can’t really say I feel bad about this. Things like using GETs instead of POSTs (if memory serves correctly) because of legacy stupid decisions.

                                                                                                1. 1

                                                                                                  Yeah, Webmention was a W3C Recommendation for quite a while now even. I still don’t like how W3C standardized two ways of doing roughly the same thing…

                                                                                          2. 2

                                                                                            I think AP is an okay standard (although it, again, underspecifies a lot), but it doesn’t make anything possible that wasn’t already possible with OStatus, or some very simple extensions to it.

                                                                                            1. 1

                                                                                              In what way did you think that ActivityPub did not learn from OStatus?

                                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                                so many good, deployed solutions to 80%+ of the social networking stuff

                                                                                                For example?

                                                                                                1. 3

                                                                                                  friendica, hubzilla, gnu social, pleroma

                                                                                                  1. 4

                                                                                                    pleroma

                                                                                                    Pleroma either currently supports or is very close to fully supporting AP, and was a pretty important goal from the outset.

                                                                                                    1. 4

                                                                                                      I know, I wrote it :)

                                                                                                      1. 2

                                                                                                        I think I follow you then :) Thanks for writing Pleroma <3