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    Another James Mickens talk! I can’t wait to watch this!

    1. 2

      Does anyone here use Bitwarden? I didn’t know about it, but it looks really attractive.

      1. 3

        Yes, it’s awesome. It’s also the only password manager that has a Firefox for Android extension (to my knowledge).

        1. 3

          Yes. It has some rough edges – I wish syncing was better – but it’s working great.

          My syncing issue has to do with the fact that everything has its own copy the data: desktop app, mobile app, browser plugins, etc. When you make a change they do not sync between them all immediately. You can have a Bitwarden app or plugin that is days behind so you have to go to settings and do a manual sync. Very annoying, but not a deal breaker.

          1. 2

            I use the venerable pass. It has none of this mobile mumbojumbo or autosync frills the kids today are talking about.

            It’s so simple and lean, I never thought pass git pull would be annoying.

            I would appreciate a mobile UI sometimes, though. A Sailfish client. But that’s not a dealbreaker either.

            Maybe I could hook the missus up with Rubywarden, though. Pass would be too much for her.

            Addendum: There appears to be a QML frontend on OpenRepos. Found through storeman. Not a complete client but have to give it a spin :)

            1. 1

              There is definitely a pass app for android. I’m not sure about iOS.

              1. 1

                As someone who uses a mobile and two desktops, having passwords being synced across devices is a must-have. It’s just too much of a pain to remember to copy new passwords from my phone to machine A, then B, and vice-versa.

                1. 1

                  Home desktop, work desktop, work laptop, work macOS laptop and hopefully soon two Sailfish mobiles running pass.

                  Made git pull a habit, not a chore, but ymmv.

            2. 2

              yeah, it’s open source and possible to run self-hosted as well.

              check out the discussion from a topic from a few days ago, id just be copying from there:

            1. 9

              FWIW I really like Overcast, an independent mobile podcatcher (iOS/web) https://overcast.fm

              Anyone else have a podcatcher they recommend?

              1. 5

                I use antennapod. I’m a heavy podcast listener, 3h of traffic everyday, 100 hours a month.
                The application doesn’t limit itself to itune you can also search on https://www.gpodder.net/ and others, or still add your own RSS feeds. It’s open source, so no ads and only good features that the people use.

                1. 2

                  +1 for Antennapod. It has its bugs, but the UI is simple but still functional enough for me.

                2. 1

                  I really like PocketCasts.

                  1. 1

                    I’ve used them all and for IOS Overcast is the clear winner IMO. I wish they’d polish their web player a bit but other than that it’s totally fab.

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                    A realization I recently had:

                    Why don’t we abstract away all display affordances from a piece of code’s position in a file? That is, the editor reads the file, parses its AST, and displays it according to the programmer’s preference (e.g., elastic tabstops, elm-like comma-leading lists, newline/no-newline before opening braces, etc). And prior to save, the editor simply runs it through an uncustomized prettier first.

                    There are a million and one ways to view XML data without actually reading/writing pure XML. Why not do that with code as well?

                    1. 4

                      This idea is floating around the interwebz for a long time. I recall it being stated almost verbatim on Reddit, HN, probably on /.

                      1. 6

                        And once you take it a step further, it’s clear that it shouldn’t be in a text file in the first place. Code just isn’t text. If you store it as a tree or a graph in some sort of database, it becomes possible to interact with it in much more powerful ways (including displaying it any way you like). We’ve been hobbled by equating display representation with storage format.

                        1. 7

                          This talk touches on this issue, along with some related ones and HCI in general: Bret Victor: The Future of Programming

                          1. 2

                            God, I have been trying to recall the name of this talk for ages! Thank you so much, it is a great recommendation

                          2. 5

                            Text is great when (not if) your more complicated tools fail or do something you can’t tolerate and you need to use tools which don’t Respect The Intent of designers who, for whatever reason, don’t respect your intent or workflow. Sometimes, solving a problem means working around a breakage, whether or not that breakage is intentional on someone else’s part.

                            Besides, we just (like, last fifteen or so years) got text to the point where it’s largely compatible. Would be a shame to throw that away in favor of some new AST-database-thing which only exists on a few platforms.

                            1. 1

                              I’m not sure I get your point about about intent. Isn’t the same already true of, say, compilers? There are compiler bugs that we have to work around, there are programs that seem logical to us but the compiler won’t accept, and so on. Still, everybody seems to be mostly happy to file a compiler bug or a feature request, and live with a workaround for the present. Seems like it works well enough in practice.

                              I understand your concern about introducing a new format but it sounds like a case of worse-is-better. Sure, we get a lot of convenience from the ubiquity of text, but it would nevertheless be sad if we were stuck with it for the next two centuries.

                              1. 1

                                With compilers, there are multiple of them for any given language, if the language is important enough, and you can feed the same source into all of them, assuming that source is text.

                                1. 2

                                  I’ve never seen anyone casually swap out the compiler for production code. Also, for the longest time, if you wrote C++ for Windows, you pretty much had to use the Microsoft compiler. I’m sure that there are many embedded platforms with a single compiler.

                                  If there’s a bug in the compiler, in most casss you work around it, then patiently wait for a fix from the vendor.

                                  So that’s hardly a valid counterpoint.

                                  1. 1

                                    Re: swapping out compiler for production code: most if not all cross-platform C++ libraries can be compiled on at least llvm, gcc and msvc.

                                    1. 1

                                      Yes, I’m aware of that, but what does it have to do with anything I said?

                                      EDIT: Hey, I went to Canterbury :)

                                      1. 1

                                        “I’ve never seen anyone casually swap out the compiler for production code” sounded like you were saying people didn’t tend to compile the same production code on multiple compilers, which of course anyone that compiles on windows and non-windows does. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment!

                                        My first comment is in response to another Kiwi. Small world. Pretty cool.

                            2. 1

                              This, this, a thousand times this. Text is a good user-interface for code (for now). But it’s a terrible storage and interchange format. Every tool needs its own parser, and each one is slightly different, leaving begging the amount of cpu and programmer time we waste going from text<->ast<->text.

                              1. 2

                                Yeah, it’s obviously wasteful and limiting. Why do you think we are still stuck with text? Is it just sheer inertia and incrementalism, or does text really offer advantages that are challenging to recreate with other formats?

                                1. 7

                                  The text editor I use can handle any computer language you can throw at it. It doesn’t matter if it’s BASIC, C, BCPL, C++, SQL, Prolog, Fortran 77, Pascal, x86 Assembler, Forth, Lisp, JavaScript, Java, Lua, Make, Hope, Go, Swift, Objective-C, Rexx, Ruby, XSLT, HTML, Perl, TCL, Clojure, 6502 Assembler, 68000 Assembler, COBOL, Coffee, Erlang, Haskell, Ocaml, ML, 6809 Assembler, PostScript, Scala, Brainfuck, or even Whitespace. [1]

                                  Meanwhile, the last time I tried an IDE (last year I think) it crashed hard on a simple C program I attempted to load into it. It was valid C code [2]. That just reinforced my notion that we aren’t anywhere close to getting away from text.

                                  [1] APL is an issue, but only because I can’t type the character set on my keyboard.

                                  [2] But NOT C++, which of course, everybody uses, right?

                                  1. 0

                                    To your point about text editors working with any language, I think this is like arguing that the only tool required by a carpenter is a single large screwdriver: you can use it as a hammer, as a chisel, as a knife (if sharpened), as a wedge, as a nail puller, and so on. Just apply sufficient effort and ingenuity! Does that sound like an optimal solution?

                                    My preference is for powerful specialised tools rather than a single thing that can be kind of sort of applied to a task.

                                    Or, to approach from the opposite direction, would you say that a CAD application or Blender are bad tools because they only work with a limited number of formats? If only they also allowed you to edit JPEGs and PDFs, they would be so much better!

                                    To your point about IDEs: I think that might even support my argument. Parsing of freeform text is apparently sufficiently hard that we’re still getting issues like the one you saw.

                                    1. 9

                                      I use other tools besides the text editor—I use version control, compilers, linkers, debuggers, and a whole litany of Unix tools (grep, sed, awk, sort, etc). The thing I want to point out is that as long as the source code is in ASCII (or UTF-8), I can edit it. I can study it. I might not be able to compile it (because I lack the INRAC compiler but I can still view the code). How does one “view” Smalltalk code when one doesn’t have Smalltalk? Or Visual Basic? Last I hear, Microsoft wasn’t giving out the format for Visual Basic programs (and good luck even finding the format for VB from the late 90s).

                                      The other issue I have with IDEs (and I will come out and say I have a bias against the things because I’ve never had one that worked for me for any length of time without crashing, and I’ve tried quite a few over 30 years) is that you have one IDE for C++, and one for Java, and one for Pascal, and one for Assembly [1] and one for Lua and one for Python and man … that’s just too many damn environments to deal with [2]. Maybe there are IDEs now that can work with more than one language [3] but again, I’ve yet to find one that works.

                                      I have nothing against specialized tools like AutoCAD or Blender or PhotoShop or even Deluxe Paint, as long as there is a way to extract the data when the tool (or the company) is no longer around. Photo Shop and Deluxe Paint work with defined formats that other tools can understand. I think Blender works with several formats, but I am not sure about AutoCAD (never having used it).

                                      So, why hasn’t anyone stored and manipulated ASTs? I keep hearing cries that we should do it, but yet, no one has yet done it … I wonder if it’s harder than you even imagine …

                                      Edited to add: Also, I’m a language maven, not a tool maven. It sounds like you are a tool maven. That colors our perspectives.

                                      [1] Yes, I’ve come across several of those. Never understood the appeal …

                                      [2] For work, I have to deal with C, C++, Lua, Make and Perl.

                                      [3] Yeah, the last one that claimed C/C++ worked out so well for me.

                                      1. 1

                                        For your first concern about the long term accessibility of the code, you’ve already pointed out the solution: a defined open format.

                                        Regarding IDEs: I’m not actually talking about IDEs; I’m talking about an editor that works with something other than text. Debugging, running the code, profiling etc. are different concerns and they can be handled separately (although again, the input would be something other than text). I suppose it would have some aspects of an IDE because you’d be manipulating the whole code base rather than individual files.

                                        Regarding the language maven post: I enjoyed reading it a few years ago (and in practice, I’ve always ended up in the language camp as an early adopter). It was written 14 years ago, and I think the situation is different now. People have come to expect tooling, and it’s much easier to provide it in the form of editor/IDE plugins. Since language creators already have to do a huge amount of work to make programs in their languages executable in some form, I don’t think it would be an obstacle if the price of admission also included dealing with the storage format and representation.

                                        To your point about lack of implementations: don’t Smalltalk and derivatives such as Pharo qualify? I don’t know if they store ASTs but at least they don’t store text. I think they demonstrate that it’s at least technically possible to get away from text, so the lack of mainstream adoption might be caused by non-technical reasons like being in a local maximum in terms of tools.

                                        The problem, as always, is that there is such a huge number of tools already built around text that it’s very difficult to move to something else, even if the post-transition state of affairs would be much better.

                                        1. 1

                                          Text editors are language agnostic.

                                          I’m trying to conceive of an “editor” that works with something other than text. Say an AST. Okay, but in Pascal, you have to declare variables at the top of each scope; you can declare variables anywhere in C++. In Lua, you can just use a variable, no declaration required. LISP, Lua and JavaScript allow anonymous functions; only the latest versions of C++ and Java allow anonymous functions, but they they’re restricted in that you can’t create closures, since C++ and Java have no concept of closures. C++ has exceptions, Java has two types of exceptions, C doesn’t; Lua kind of has exceptions but not really. An “AST editor” would have to somehow know that is and isn’t allowed per language, so if I’m editing C++ and write an anonymous function, I don’t reference variables outside the scope of said function, but that it can for Lua.

                                          Okay, so we step away from AST—what other format do you see as being better than text?

                                          1. 1

                                            I don’t think it could be language agnostic - it would defeat the purpose as it wouldn’t be any more powerful than existing editors. However, I think it could offer largely the same UI, for similar languages at least.

                                            1. 1

                                              And that is my problem with it. As stated, I use C, C++ [1], Lua, Make and a bit of Perl. That’s at least what? Three different “editors” (C/C++, Lua/Perl (maybe), Make). No thank you, I’ll stick with a tool that can work with any language.

                                              [1] Sparingly and where we have no choice; no one on my team actually enjoys it.

                                            2. 1

                                              Personally, I’m not saying you should need to give up your editor of choice. Text is a good (enough for now) UI for coding. But it’s a terrible format to build tools on. If the current state of the code lived in some sort of event-based graph database for example, your changes could trigger not only your incremental compiler, but source analysis (only on what’s new), it could also maintain a semantic changelog for version control, trigger code-generation (again, only what’s new).

                                              There’s a million things that are currently “too hard” which would cease to be too hard if we had a live model of the code as various graphs (not just the ast, but call graphs, inheritance graphs, you-name-it) that we could subscribe to, or even write purely-functional consumers that are triggered only on changes.

                                    2. 4

                                      Inertia, arrogance, worse-is-better; Working systems being trapped behind closed doors at big companies; Hackers taking their language / editor / process on as part of their identity that needs to be defended with religious zeal; The complete destruction of dev tools as a viable business model; Methodologies-of-the-week…. The causes are numerous and varied, and the result is software dev is being hamstrung and we’re all wasting countless hours and dollars doing things computers should be doing for us.

                                      1. 2

                                        I think that part of the issue is that we haven’t seen good structured editor support outside of Haskell and some Lisps.

                                        Having a principled foundation for structured editor + a critical mass by having it work for a language like Javascript/Ruby, would go a long way to making this concept more mainstream. After which we could say “provide a grammar for favorite language X and get structured editor support!”. This then becomes “everything is structured at all levels!”

                                        1. 3

                                          I think it’s possible that this only works for a subset of languages.

                                          Structured editing is good in that it operates at a higher level than characters, but ultimately it’s still a text editing tool, isn’t it? For example, I think it should be trivial to pull up a list of (editable) definitions for all the functions in a project that call a given function, or to sort function and type definitions in different ways, or to substitute function calls in a function with the bodies of those functions to a given depth (as opposed to switching between different views to see what those functions do). I don’t think structured editing can help with tasks like that.

                                          There are also ideas like Luna, have you seen it? I’m not convinced by the visual representation (it’s useful in some situations but I’m not sure it’s generally effective), but the interesting thing is they provide both a textual and a visual representation of the code.

                                      2. 1

                                        Python has a standard library module for parsing Python code into an AST and modifying the AST, but I don’t know of any Python tools that actually use it. I’m sure some of them do, though.

                                      3. 1

                                        Smalltalk. The word you’re looking for is Smalltalk. ;)

                                        1. 2

                                          Lisp, in fact. Smalltalk lives in an image, Lisp lives in the real world. ;)

                                          Besides, Lisp already is the AST. Smalltalk has too much sugar, which is a pain in the AST.

                                          1. 1

                                            Possibly, but I’m only talking about a single aspect of it: being able to analyse and manipulate the code in more powerful ways than afforded by plain text. I think that’s equally possible for FP languages.

                                        2. 1

                                          Ultimately I think this is the only teneble solution. I feel I must be in the minority in having an extreme dislike of columnar-style code, and what I call “white space cliffs” where a column dictates a sudden huge increase in whitespace. But I realize how much it comes down to personal aesthetics, so I wish we could all just coexist :)

                                          1. 1

                                            Yeah, I’ve been messing around with similar ideas, see https://nick.zoic.org/art/waste-web-abstract-syntax-tree-editor/ although it’s only vapourware so far because things got busy …

                                            1. 1

                                              Many editors already do this to some extent. They just render 4-space tabs as whatever the user asks for. Everything after the indent, though, is assumed to be spaced appropriately (which seems right, anyway?)

                                              1. 1

                                                You can’t convert to elastic-tabstop style from that, and without heavy language-grammar knowledge you can’t do this for 4-space “tabs” generally.

                                                Every editor ever supports this for traditional indent style, though: http://intellindent.info/seriously/

                                                1. 1

                                                  To be clear, you can absolutely render a file that doesn’t have elastic tabstops as if it did. The way a file is rendered has nothing to do with the actual text in the file.

                                                  It’s like you’re suggesting that you can’t render a file containing a ton of numbers as a 3D scene in a game engine. That would be just wrong.

                                                  Regardless, my point is specifically that this elastic tabstops thing is not necessary and hurts code readability more than it helps.

                                                  The pefantics of clarifying between tabs and tabstops is a silly thing as well. Context gives more than enough information to know which one is being talked about.

                                                  It sounds like this concept is creating more problems than it solves, and is causing your editor to solve problems that only exist in the seveloper’s imagination. It’s not “KISS” at all, quite the opposite.

                                              2. 1

                                                Because presentation isn’t just a function of the AST. Indentation usually is, but alignment can be visually useful for all kinds of reasons.

                                              1. 1

                                                OT: is it just me or is the back button on this site broken?

                                                1. 1

                                                  It’s one of the new fangled blogspot themes, so lots of stuff is more or less broken.

                                                1. 4

                                                  Does anyone have any experience with Microsoft Teams? We are looking at it as a potential replacement.

                                                  1. 6

                                                    My team (roughly ~40 people) transitioned from Slack to Teams a bit over a year ago. It’s gone well and speaking in terms of productivity, it’s been an improvement. There are a lot of cool integration features with Teams but they’re more oriented to the Microsoft ecosystem whereas Slack was more open. We do everything w/ Microsoft here (Azure, VSTS, .NET, Office 365, etc)so it worked out well.

                                                    Slack has more ‘fun’ features like custom emojis - we had to give up all the funny faces of team members in the transition.

                                                    If your company isn’t in the Micorosft ecosystem I don’t think I would recommend it.

                                                    1. 4

                                                      It’s reliable and has plenty of good features, especially on the management side, but the UX is not excellent. Some people even claim to hate it, but I haven’t figured out how serious those feelings are.

                                                      They have been improving it in a nice pace in 2018. It feels to me that the Teams team in Microsoft is culturally similar to the Visual Code Studio folks – i.e. part of the new Microsoft.

                                                      Like dsschnau says, you can probably find better solutions if you’re not in the Office365 bearhug already. But they won’t be massively better (unless you want the burden of hosting yourself, in which case there are plenty of choices). If you are paying for office365 (not to mention Azure/VSTS/TFS) already, getting another chat solution in addition to Teams would be just stupid.

                                                      1. 3

                                                        IME the Teams interface is extremely buggy (flashes of white, elements jumping around the screen, pretty severe lag/unresponsiveness) but I haven’t used it in 8 months.

                                                        1. 2

                                                          I heard bad things from early adopters, but not not heard much recently. A quick play and the UI seems OK, but issues like you have described above tend to more noticeable after a bit of use.

                                                      1. 1

                                                        I’ve liked the idea of Gopher but one minor annoyance is how the server gets to dictate the appearance and layout of text (WRT manually-wrapped paragraphs).

                                                        1. 6

                                                          When you’re posting information publicly in a social network, the trust of your server operator, besides moderation tasks, is really just tantamount to “person I know who will serve my information to others, and others to me.” And when the biggest issues are to cut costs of usage (utilize existing web server infrastructure) and interaction (delegating what would otherwise be massively time-consuming fully distributed self-moderation to operator-led moderation) the best course of action then is to essentially create a system of public forums that can exchange information between one another. And since these are the actual concerns of most users, I don’t really think these users would see much of a reason to fragment their social spaces further.

                                                          On a public social network, distributed or centralized, can’t anyone who’s spent enough time scraping trivially derive social graphs? Didn’t a lot of users migrate to Mastodon because they considered the ability of instances to block instances they’d prefer to not interact with desirable?

                                                          1. 2

                                                            Instance owners also have complete access to private posts and DMs, which many users may not be aware of.

                                                            1. 5

                                                              This has nothing to do with federation though. It’s just a Mastodon thing. There are federated protocols that use end to end encryption.

                                                          1. 12

                                                            I think of Material Design more of a safety net. We can’t expect every app maker to be proficient in design and creating something interesting, unique, and useful. MD saves the average app developer from making a really really terrible app. Yes, you still have to understand the design philosophy, the guidelines, the patterns. But it’s easier to use a set of components Google has made for you and copy patterns that occur in the MD-complaint apps.

                                                            Disclaimer: I work at the GOOG.

                                                            1. 8

                                                              As a backend developer that has had to take on the lead on a few front end projects, this is a massive win. You can simply follow material design spec and get solving problems, then when someone queries why you have done something or wants something changed, you can just quote the material spec and get on with solving real problems.

                                                              1. 7

                                                                “real problems”

                                                                1. 3

                                                                  and get on with solving real problems.

                                                                  I think if the application in question is small enough, then this might hold true; however once the project gains any significant complexity or scope then I’d say having a backend developer work on UI might cause a few ‘real problems’ of its own ;)

                                                                  1. 3

                                                                    This an example of the kind of conclusion you don’t want to jump to. Material Design may be a good stand-in, but it is ultimately a one-size-fits-all solution to a problem (yes, a real one 😉) that is inherently case-by-case. It helps developers speed through UI design; it does not solve UI design. As much as Google may want you to believe that convenient untruth.

                                                                1. 4

                                                                  Leopold FC something – tenkeyless, ANSI layout, Cherry MX Brown switches, blank keycaps.

                                                                  As for customizations (in software): Colemak + shifts as parens + CapsLock as Control/Escape.

                                                                  1. 1

                                                                    Ditto! I never got into alternate layouts because it seemed like it’d take years of practice to become as fast as you were with QWERTY/AZERTY.

                                                                    1. 1

                                                                      I wasn’t very fast with QWERTY, I only learned to properly type with Colemak :)

                                                                  1. 3

                                                                    I’m surprised that the author managed to follow around 5000 (if I understood the article correctly) people on Twitter. it seems like the amount of noise on your feed would make it unusable at that point.

                                                                    1. 2

                                                                      I’m following 867 and my timeline is too much sometimes. I follow virtually no celebrities, a few politicians, a handful of the StockTwits old guard (the whole reason I joined Twitter 10 years ago), and a whole lot of tech people.

                                                                      1. 1

                                                                        Agree. I try to give myself a limit of about 400, because that’s the point where I’ve noticed that it becomes unmanageable. Right now I am following 525, and am overdue for some pruning, but I’m not sure how to do that effectively. :/

                                                                      1. 6

                                                                        Yeah, I know someone who runs a keyserver and they are getting absolutely sick of responding to the GDPR troll emails.

                                                                        Love the idea to use activitypub (the same technology involved in mastadon) for keyservers. That’s really smart!

                                                                        1. 16

                                                                          Offtopic: Excuse me.

                                                                          I think it depends on some conditions, so not everybody is going to see this every time. But when I click on medium links I tend to get this huge dialog box come up over the entire page saying some thing about registering or something. It’s really annoying. I wish we could host articles somewhere that doesn’t do this.

                                                                          My opinion is that links should be links to some content. Not links to some kind of annoyware that I have to click past to get to the real article.

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                                                                            Use the cached link for Medium articles. It doesn’t have the popup. Just the content.

                                                                            1. 1

                                                                              Could you give an example? That sounds like a pleasant improvement, but i don’t know exactly what you mean by a cached link.

                                                                              1. 3

                                                                                There is a’ cached’ link under each article title on lobste.rs

                                                                                1. 1

                                                                                  Thanks.

                                                                            2. 7

                                                                              I started running uMatrix and added rules to block all 1st party JS by default. It does take a while to white list things, yes, but it’s amazing when you start to see how many sites use Javascript for stupid shit. Imgur requires Javascript to view images! So do all Square Space sites (it’s for those fancy hover-over zoom boxes).

                                                                              As a nice side effect, I rarely ever get paywall modals. If the article doesn’t show, I typically plug it into archive.is rather than enable javascript when I shouldn’t have to.

                                                                              1. 2

                                                                                I do this as well, but with Medium it’s a choice between blocking the pop-up and getting to see the article images.

                                                                                1. 6

                                                                                  I think if you check the ‘spoof noscript>l tags’ option in umatrix then you’ll be able to see the images.

                                                                                  1. 1

                                                                                    Nice trick, thanks!

                                                                              2. 6

                                                                                How timely! Someone at the office just shared this with me today: http://makemediumreadable.com

                                                                                1. 4

                                                                                  From what I can see, the popup is just a begging bowl, there’s actually no paywall or regwall involved.

                                                                                  I just click the little X in the top right corner of the popup.

                                                                                  But I do think that anyone who likes to blog more than a couple of times a year should just get a domain, a VPS and some blog software. It helps decentralization.

                                                                                  1. 1

                                                                                    And I find that I can’t scroll down.

                                                                                    1. 3

                                                                                      I use the kill sticky bookmarklet to dismiss overlays such as the one on medium.com. And yes, then I have to refresh the page to get the scroll to work again.

                                                                                      On other paywall sites when I can’t scroll, (perhaps because I removed some paywall overlay to get at the content below,) I’m able to restore scrolling by finding the overflow-x CSS property and altering or removing it. …Though, that didn’t work for me just now on medium.com.

                                                                                      1. 1

                                                                                        Actually, it’s the overflow: hidden; CSS that I remove to get pages to scroll after removing some sticky div!

                                                                                  2. 3

                                                                                    What is the keyserver’s privacy policy?

                                                                                    1. 5

                                                                                      I run an SKS keyserver, have some patches in the codebase, wrote the operations documents in the wiki, etc.

                                                                                      Each keyserver is run by volunteers, peering with each other to exchange keys. The design was based around “protection against government attempts to censor keys”, dating from the first crypto wars. They’re immutable append-only logs, and the design approach is probably about dead. Each keyserver operator has their own policies.

                                                                                      I am a US citizen, living in the USA, with a keyserver hosted in the USA. My server’s privacy statement is at https://sks.spodhuis.org/#privacy but that does not cover anyone else running keyservers. [update: I’ve taken my keyserver down, copy/paste of former privacy policy at: https://gist.github.com/philpennock/0635864d34a323aa366b0c30c7360972 ]

                                                                                      You don’t know who is running keyservers. It’s “highly likely” that at least one nation has some acronym agency running one, at some kind of arms-length distance: it’s an easy and cheap way to get metadata about who wants to communicate privately with whom, where you get the logs because folks choose to send traffic to you as a service operator. I went into a little more depth on this over at http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/12/10/1

                                                                                      1. 5

                                                                                        Thanks for this info.

                                                                                        Fundamentally, GDPR is about giving the right to individuals to censor content related to themselves.

                                                                                        A system set out to thwart any censorship will fall afoul of GDPR, based on this interpretation

                                                                                        However, people who use a keyserver are presumably A-OK with associating their info with an append-only immutable system. Sadly , GDPR doesn’t really take this use case into account (I think, I am not a lawyer).

                                                                                        I think what’s important to note about GDPR is that there’s an authority in each EU country that’s responsible for handling complaints. Someone might try to troll keyserver sites by attempting to remove their info, but they will have to make their case to this authority. Hopefully this authority will read the rules of the keyserver and decide that the complainant has no real case based on the stated goals of the keyserver site… or they’ll take this as a golden opportunity to kneecap (part of) secure communications.

                                                                                        I still think GDPR in general is a good idea - it treats personal info as toxic waste that has to be handled carefully, not as a valuable commodity to be sold to the highest bidder. Unfortunately it will cause damage in edge cases, like this.

                                                                                        1. 3

                                                                                          gerikson you make really good points there about the GDPR.

                                                                                          Consenting people are not the focus of this entirely though , its about current and potential abuse of the servers and people who have not consented to their information being posted and there being no way for removal.

                                                                                          The Supervisory Authority’s wont ignore that, this is why the key servers need to change to prevent further abuse and their extinction.

                                                                                          They also wont consider this case, just like the recent ICANN case where they want it to be a requirement to store your information publicly with your domain which was rejected outright. The keyservers are not necessary to the functioning of the keys you upload, and a big part of the GDPR is processing only as long as necessary.

                                                                                          Someone recently made a point about the below term non-repudiation.
                                                                                          Non-repudiation this means in digital security

                                                                                          A service that provides proof of the integrity and origin of data.
                                                                                          An authentication that can be asserted to be genuine with high assurance.
                                                                                          

                                                                                          KeyServers don’t do this!, you can have the same email address as anyone else, and even the maintainers and creator of the sks keyservers state this as well and recommend you check through other means to see if keys are what they appear to be, such as telephone or in person.

                                                                                          I also don’t think this is an edge case i think its a wake up call to rethink the design of the software and catch up with the rest of the world and quickly.

                                                                                          Lastly i don’t approve of trolling, if your doing it just for the sake of doing it “DON’T”, if you genuinely feel the need to submit a “right to erasure” due to not consenting to having your data published, please do it.

                                                                                        2. 2

                                                                                          Thank you for the link: http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/12/10/1, its a fantastic read and makes some really good points.

                                                                                          Its easy for anyone to get hold of recent dumps from the sks servers, i have just hunted through a recent dump of 5 million + keys yesterday looking for interesting data. Will be writing an article soon about it.

                                                                                      2. 3

                                                                                        i totally agree, it has been bothering me as well, i am in the middle of considering starting up my own self hosted blog. I also don’t like mediums method of charging for access to peoples stories without giving them anything.

                                                                                        1. 3

                                                                                          I’m thinking of setting up a blog platform, like Medium, but totally free of bullshit for both the readers and the writers. Though the authors pay a small fee to host their blog (it’s a personal website/blog engine, as opposed to Medium which is much more public and community-like).

                                                                                          If that could be something that interests you, let me know and I’ll let you know :)

                                                                                          1. 2

                                                                                            lmao you don’t even get paid when someone has to pay for your article?

                                                                                            1. 1

                                                                                              correction, turns out you can get paid if you sign up for their partner program, but i think it requires approval n shit.

                                                                                            2. 2

                                                                                              hey @pushcx, is there a feature where we can prune a comment branch and graft it on to another branch? asking for a friend. Certainly not a high priority feature.

                                                                                              1. 3

                                                                                                No, but it’s on my list of potential features to consider when Lobsters gets several times the comments it does now. For now the ‘off-topic’ votes do OK at prompting people to start new top-level threads, but I feel like I’m seeing a slow increase in threads where promoting a branch to a top-level comment would be useful enough to justify the disruption.

                                                                                          1. 2
                                                                                            p {
                                                                                                text-align: justify;
                                                                                                text-indent: 1.5em;
                                                                                            }
                                                                                            

                                                                                            Voilà, much better to read!

                                                                                            1. 1

                                                                                              Does justified text in CSS still look awful? Last time I used it (probably a year ago) it produced massive gaps between words on some lines, and tiny gaps on others.

                                                                                              E: I guess this is just personal preference, but it feels like it’s easier to keep my position when reading with a ragged right edge.

                                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                                Usually books and papers all use justified text and the good vertical and horizontal spacing at the start and between paragraphs so I presume if the article is quite big with long paragraphs it would be easier to follow.

                                                                                            1. 11

                                                                                              I think I’ll start linking to this site instead of http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/.

                                                                                              1. 5

                                                                                                Previously (Reposts are OK, just manually connecting this to previous discussion)

                                                                                                1. 5

                                                                                                  This could probably be a nice feature :)

                                                                                                  1. 5

                                                                                                    Yeah. I’d like to see some kind of backlink of “this thread was linked to from this other one” and future/previous repostings, just haven’t gotten to writing a github issue. Not sure if it’d look better above/below all comments or inline on specific comments where possible, and how to keep it from visually overwhelming the comments either way (I assume there’s a power-law distribution to these cross-references).

                                                                                                  2. 1

                                                                                                    Oh weird, I thought the blue box didn’t appear when I pasted in the submission URL.

                                                                                                    1. 3

                                                                                                      It’s gotta match on the whole url; yours is medium.freecodecamp.org while the other is medium.freecodecamp.com.

                                                                                                  1. 16

                                                                                                    If Twitter shuts down, you’ll lose your followers. If Facebook shuts down, you’ll lose your friends. For some platforms, it’s not a question of “if”, but “when”. Such events are usually followed by a scrambling into a variety of different platforms, where you inevitably lose some people as you have to make a choice which one to stay on. This happened before. But it doesn’t have to happen again. Use the federated web. Join Mastodon.

                                                                                                    As a Mastodon user, I think this is my main issue with the way it is marketed to normal users. For most people, FB/Twitter going offline seems unlikely. But with Mastodon, the likelihood of your instance going dark is much higher, especially considering that joinmastodon.org’s guides recommend choosing smaller/more niche instances. Once the instance is offline, you’re SOL with respect to all your posts and follow/following lists, and regular users are not made aware of this.

                                                                                                    Additionally, I think many new users will hop onto an instance without considering the fact that the instance admin has complete control over the instance, including access to DMs and private posts.

                                                                                                    Federation has its benefits, but I’m not sure if federated services will ever be approachable by normal people.

                                                                                                    1. 3

                                                                                                      For most people, FB/Twitter going offline seems unlikely.

                                                                                                      If FB or Twitter shut down, everyone will have moved a way long ago. MySpace still exists. These decentralized platforms always advertise resilience as their main feature but they quite often are actually worse than centralized systems. How often have you found a torrent with no seeds? If I host a small program on github or on a torrent, which one is more likely to still be around in 10 years?

                                                                                                      I think the main difference is control. Your content may be hosted on one of these big platforms for ages if they allow it but if they decide your content is not ok you have no options left. With a decentralized system, no one can ban you from your own server unless it violates local laws.

                                                                                                      1. 1

                                                                                                        Agreed. I say the resilience aspect of these networks is more about the service itself remaining available if any instances shut down. For example, if Facebook shuts down, you don’t have any other way to use Facebook. But if https://mastodon.social goes down, you can just hop to another instance and Mastodon again. But by advertising the network by implying that mastodon will never die, people might be mislead into thinking that their data will stay online.

                                                                                                      2. 2

                                                                                                        But with Mastodon, the likelihood of your instance going dark is much higher, especially considering that joinmastodon.org’s guides recommend choosing smaller/more niche instances. Once the instance is offline, you’re SOL with respect to all your posts and follow/following lists, and regular users are not made aware of this.

                                                                                                        My home instance was down most of today. And while I was searching around for some info about what was going on I just thought to myself “yeah, this could be the end for that instance, and my account, and all of my posts”.

                                                                                                        I’ll be sure to back up my follow list in future, but this has put into focus just how transient and fragile these federated services can be.

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                                                                                                          This blog post: a case study in being a jerk to someone who is being a jerk, only since Linus is a “jerk” you get off scott-free. Unsurprisingly, this is written by someone who has never contributed to the Linux kernel and who was uninvolved in the discussion he’s picking apart.

                                                                                                          The revised email at the end does lose information. Contrary to what hipsters write blog posts complaining about, 99% of Linus’s emails are cordial. The information that’s lost is the conveyance that this is more important to Linus than most subjects.

                                                                                                          1. 20

                                                                                                            This comment: a case study in being a jerk to someone who is being a jerk to a jerk.

                                                                                                            In all seriousness, I don’t believe that Gary Bernhardt is being a jerk at all. There’s a line between being critical of a piece of work and calling someone brain damaged, and hopefully, we all can see the difference.

                                                                                                            Aside: I love when people use the word “hipster” to invalidate other viewpoints. Apparently, there are two modes of being: Being Right and Being A Hipster.

                                                                                                            1. 2

                                                                                                              To the unserious comment, I don’t think I was being a jerk. I called him a jerk, which I guess you could argue is a jerk move under any circumstances, but if I’m being a jerk then so is Gary.

                                                                                                              To the serious comment, I just want to note that “brain damaged” is a meme among old school hackers which isn’t as strong of a word as you think.

                                                                                                              To the aside, I don’t use hipster as an insult or to imply wrongness, but I do use it to invalidate his point. Gary is a Ruby developer. Linus is a kernel developer. The worlds are far removed from each other.

                                                                                                              1. 50

                                                                                                                I’ve put tens of thousands of lines of C into production, including multiple Linux kernel drivers. In one case, those kernel drivers were critical-path code on a device used in strain testing the wings of an airplane that you might’ve flown in by now.

                                                                                                                I’m not a stranger to the kernel; I just left that world. Behavior like Linus’ in that email was part of the reason, though far from the only reason.

                                                                                                                With all of that said: having written a bunch of systems software shouldn’t be a prerequisite for suggesting that we avoid attacking people personally when they make programming mistakes, or what we suspect are programming mistakes.

                                                                                                                1. 10

                                                                                                                  Exactly. I’ve also met many people that do high-performance, embedded, and/or safety-critical code in C that are more polite in these situations. Linus’ attitude is a separate issue from what’s necessary to evaluate and constructively criticize code.

                                                                                                                2. 17

                                                                                                                  “brain damaged” is a meme among old school hackers which isn’t as strong of a word as you think.

                                                                                                                  Yikes. That “meme” is a whole other thing I don’t even care to unpack right now.

                                                                                                                  I don’t use hipster as an insult or to imply wrongness, but I do use it to invalidate his point. Gary is a Ruby developer. Linus is a kernel developer. The worlds are far removed from each other.

                                                                                                                  Gotcha. Kernal developer == real old-school hacker. Ruby developer == script kiddie hipster. Are we really still having this argument in 2018?

                                                                                                                  1. 2

                                                                                                                    Yikes. That “meme” is a whole other thing I don’t even care to unpack right now.

                                                                                                                    “Brain damaged” is a term from back in the Multics days, Linus didn’t make that one up for the occasion. If you’re unfamiliar with the “jargon file” aka hacker dictionary, you can see the history of this particular term here: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/B/brain-damaged.html

                                                                                                                    1. 1

                                                                                                                      Yikes. That “meme” is a whole other thing I don’t even care to unpack right now.

                                                                                                                      Listen, cultures are different and culture shock is a thing. I’m in a thread full of foreigners shocked that customs are different elsewhere. You better just take my word for it on “brain damaged” because you clearly aren’t a member of this culture and don’t know what you’re talking about.

                                                                                                                      Gotcha. Kernal developer == real old-school hacker. Ruby developer == script kiddie hipster. Are we really still having this argument in 2018?

                                                                                                                      How about you quit putting words in my mouth? Do you really need me to explain the world of difference between Ruby development and kernel hacking? In 2018? It’s not a matter of skill. Gary is great at what he does, but it has almost nothing to do with what Linus does. The people who surround Gary and the people who surround Linus are mutually exclusive groups with different cultural norms.

                                                                                                                      1. 20

                                                                                                                        You can’t use “it’s our culture” as a panacea; calling someone an idiot, moron etc. is a deliberate attempt to hurt them. I guess if what you’re saying is, “it’s our culture to intentionally hurt the feelings of people who have bad ideas,” well, then we might be at an impasse.

                                                                                                                        1. 21

                                                                                                                          The kind of toxic exclusivity and “old school hacker culture” elitism that you’re spouting in this thread is not what I expect to see on Lobsters. It makes me genuinely sad to see somebody saying these things and it also makes me apprehensive of ever being involved in the same project or community as you. Software development today is not what it was 20 –or even 5– years ago. Today it is far more about people than it is about software or technology. You may not like this, but it is the reality.

                                                                                                                          1. 7

                                                                                                                            Lobste.rs always had a few vocal people like this in threads. But note that they’re in the minority and generally are not upvoted as much as the people who aren’t elitist, racist, or just generally being a jerk.

                                                                                                                            1. 5

                                                                                                                              “old school hacker culture” elitism

                                                                                                                              Near 40, I can agree to be called old. But not elitist.
                                                                                                                              And I cannot accept to be associated with racist.

                                                                                                                              Not all software developers are hackers. Not all hackers are software developers.

                                                                                                                              Is stating this “elitism”? Is it “racism”? Is it being “jerk”?
                                                                                                                              Or is just using terms properly?

                                                                                                                  2. 5

                                                                                                                    The information that’s lost is the conveyance that this is more important to Linus than most subjects.

                                                                                                                    So add “I want to stress that this issue is really important to me” at the end of the revised email.

                                                                                                                    I think that making an issue out of this particular information being lost is missing the point - that it would be possible to say the same thing as Linus did without being abusive.

                                                                                                                    Contrary to what hipsters write blog posts complaining about

                                                                                                                    You’re falling into the same trap that the post discusses. This derision isn’t necessary to make your point, and doesn’t make it any stronger - it just adds an unnecessary insult.

                                                                                                                    1. 9

                                                                                                                      Contrary to what hipsters write blog posts complaining about, 99% of Linus’s emails are cordial.

                                                                                                                      That may well be true, but do we need that last 1% in a professional setting?

                                                                                                                      1. 9

                                                                                                                        (I am not defending Linus’ behaviour here, please don’t put those words in my mouth.)

                                                                                                                        I strongly take issue with American ideas of “professionalism”, and an even more so with the idea that we get to decide whether this project is “a professional setting” or not. What exactly makes this a “professional setting”? What is a “professional setting”? Why do we hold some interactions to higher standards than others?

                                                                                                                        I suspect “money changing hands” is the thing that makes this “a professional setting”, and that grinds my gears even further. Why are we supposed to hold ourselves to different standards just because some people are getting paid for doing it?

                                                                                                                        1. 3

                                                                                                                          Right, “professionalism” implies that you only need to be nice to somebody when you want them to something for you or want their money. This should actually be about “respect”, whether or not you want a Linux contributor to do something for you or want their money.

                                                                                                                        2. 12

                                                                                                                          The Linux kernel is not a professional setting. Besides, I argue that the 1% is useful, even in a professional setting - sometimes strong words are called for. I’ll be That Guy and say that people should grow a thicker skin, especially people who weren’t even the subject of the email and have never been involved in kernel development.

                                                                                                                          1. 14

                                                                                                                            If I look at who the contributors to the Linux kernel are, it would certainly appear to be a professional endeavor.

                                                                                                                            A large chunk of contributions to the kernel are made by people who are getting paid by the companies they work for to contribute. Sounds like a professional setting to me.

                                                                                                                            1. 4

                                                                                                                              Linux development is only “a professional endeavour” (which is a phrase I have strong issues with, see above) because some people decided to build their businesses in Linus’ craft room. We can like or dislike Linus’ behaviour, but we don’t get to ascribe “professionalism” or lack thereof (if there even is such a thing) to Linus’ work or behaviour, or that of any of the contributors.

                                                                                                                              Even if “professionalism” is an actual thing (it’s not; it’s just a tool used by people in power to keep others down) it’s between the people doing the paying, and the people getting the pay, and has nothing to do with any of us.

                                                                                                                              This idea that people should behave differently when there’s money involved is completely offensive to me.

                                                                                                                              1. 7

                                                                                                                                But it’s not. It’s a collaboration between everyone, including professionals and hobbyists. The largest group of kernel contributors are volunteers. On top of that, Linus doesn’t have to answer to anyone.

                                                                                                                                1. 8

                                                                                                                                  So, having a hobbyist involved means that you can be dickhead? Is that the conclusion that should be drawn from your statements?

                                                                                                                                  1. 3

                                                                                                                                    No. I’m saying that Linus is not a dickhead, Linux is not a professional endeavour, and neither should be held to contrived professional standards.

                                                                                                                                    1. 2

                                                                                                                                      “I’m saying that Linus is not a dickhead”

                                                                                                                                      His comments are proving otherwise given the main article shows the same information could’ve been conveyed without all the profanity, personal insults, and so on. He must be adding that fluff because he enjoys it or has self-control issues. He’s intentionally or accidentally a dick. I say that as a satirist whose a dick to people that give me headaches in real life. Although it doesn’t take one to know one, being someone whose always countering dicks and assholes with some dickish habits of his own makes what Linus is doing more evident. If no mental illness, there’s little excuse past him not giving a shit.

                                                                                                                                      1. 5

                                                                                                                                        “doesn’t behave according to my cultural norms” == “mental illness”

                                                                                                                                        Seriously?

                                                                                                                                        I would really appreciate it if you could stop expecting that your cultural norms have to apply to everyone on the planet.

                                                                                                                                        1. 1

                                                                                                                                          Im identifying the cultural norm of being an asshole, saying it applies to him at times, and saying the project would benefit if he knocked if off. Im not forcing my norms on anyone.

                                                                                                                                          Your comment is more amusing giving someone with Linus’s norns might just reply with profanity and personsl insults. Then, you might be complaining about that. ;)

                                                                                                                                          1. 1

                                                                                                                                            Then, you might be complaining about that. ;)

                                                                                                                                            No, I’d just accept that people from different cultures behave differently.

                                                                                                                                            Let’s face it, most people hate getting told they are wrong, regardless of the tone. That’s just how we are as humans.

                                                                                                                                            Taking offense about the tone just seems very US-specific, as they are accustomed to receiving some special superpowers in a discussion by uttering “I’m offended”.

                                                                                                                                            Some of the best feedback I received in my life wouldn’t be considered acceptable by US standards and I simply don’t care – I just appreciate the fact that someone took his time to spell out the technical problems.

                                                                                                                                            Here is a recent example: https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/pull/5183#issuecomment-381449546

                                                                                                                                            1. 1

                                                                                                                                              Here is a recent example: https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/pull/5183#issuecomment-381449546

                                                                                                                                              I’m not familiar with Rust, so maybe I’m missing crucial context, but I read this feedback as firm but unproblematic overall. Compared to Linus’ email:

                                                                                                                                              • Comment admits that there are multiple points of view, gives case for their take on it.
                                                                                                                                              • Focuses on the problems at hand rather than speculating on characteristics of any individuals involved, beyond acknowledging other viewpoints.
                                                                                                                                              • Doesn’t include any personal insults.
                                                                                                                                              • Doesn’t include any profanity that I noticed, certainly not gratuituous profanity.

                                                                                                                                              It could be nicer, sure. But it seemed respectful, in the “you can do what you’re doing but consider these things:” kind of way…? The author event went out of their way to acknowledge being unconstructive.

                                                                                                                                              To my reading it seemed closer to Gary’s email than Linus’.

                                                                                                                                              To put it another way: if Linus wrote emails like this (only shorter, probably) then I don’t think Gary would have written a blog post about it.

                                                                                                                                              (For the record: I’m not American, but I do fall on the gee-it’d-be-great-if-Linus-stopped-abusing-his-colleagues side of this debate.)

                                                                                                                                              1. 1

                                                                                                                                                I didn’t intend to imply that this was comparable to Linus’ mail, but that people who would be offended by Linus’ writing would also be offended by that comment.

                                                                                                                                                It’s a slippery slide where every honest-to-go comment that expresses real feelings starts getting replaced by “this is an interesting idea, but did you consider …” corporate lingo, even if the code is horribly wrong.

                                                                                                                                                1. 2

                                                                                                                                                  I didn’t intend to imply that this was comparable to Linus’ mail, but that people who would be offended by Linus’ writing would also be offended by that comment.

                                                                                                                                                  I understand this is your point, but I think there is no evidence for this. The people complaining about Linus’ conduct are complaining about specific things, and these things are not present in the comment you linked.

                                                                                                                                                  Did anyone in the Rust community (generally considered a “nicer” community than kernel development) raise concerns about this comment?

                                                                                                                                                  There is a difference between “not overtly nice” and “openly abusive”, even accounting for cultural context.

                                                                                                                                              2. 1

                                                                                                                                                Then you and I arent that different in how we look at stuff. Ive just layered on top of it a push for project owners to do what’s most effective on social side.

                                                                                                                                          2. 2

                                                                                                                                            I believe it’s intentional. He does not want to be bothered by nurturing the newbs, so he deters them from going to him directly and forces them to do their learning elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                          3. 2

                                                                                                                                            These numbers suggest it is a professional endeavor:

                                                                                                                                            https://thenewstack.io/contributes-linux-kernel/

                                                                                                                                            1. 2

                                                                                                                                              Those numbers just break down the professionals involved, and don’t consider the volunteers. If you sum the percentages in that article you get around 40%. Even accomodating for smaller companies that didn’t make the top N companies, that’s a pretty big discrepancy.

                                                                                                                                    2. 6

                                                                                                                                      Linus himself is working in a professional capacity. He’s employed by the Linux Foundation to work on Linux. The fact he is employed to work on an open source project that he founded doesn’t make that situation non-professional.

                                                                                                                                1. 3

                                                                                                                                  Lobsters doesn’t have a rule about editorialized titles like HN. Editorialize away.

                                                                                                                                  1. 5

                                                                                                                                    This is not quite true; see the story submission guidelines from the ‘Submit Story’ page:

                                                                                                                                    Do not editorialize story titles, but when the original story’s title has no context or is unclear, please change it. Please remove extraneous components from titles such as the name of the site, blog, section, and author.

                                                                                                                                  1. 2

                                                                                                                                    I like the feeling of progress from getting something working, but I don’t really program in my free time (at most for a couple of days once or twice a year when I’m interested in a side project).